Shower drain is the only project I cant seem to do -- CHECK VALVE FLIX

[sailingdolphin]

I cut the access hole according to may 2001 project.  I have a hard time reaching it although I can feel the nut of the hose clamp and the nut is wedged on the floor face down.  I can't undo it.  Is there any other way.

Such as cutting the drain under the  shower floor with a dremel and pulling up the remainder from the top.  Then install a new one.

I put in a 3.4gpm 40 psi 10 amp non diaphram pump.  I took out the in line check valve and it drains intermittently.  So I am assuming its the drain hose.

I ran a smaller hose through the drain to see if there was an obstruction and it went all the way through to where the check valve usually goes.

I have taken off the hose that connets to the vented loop and the thru hull to see if it was making it that far and the pump runs and every once in a while it will build up enough steam and pump it through.  Al ot of either little air bubbles or soap was coming through.  I don't know how there could still be soap, its been a while since there was soap, so I am assuming they were lots of little air bubbles.

It usually drains for a few seconds when I first turn on the pump then the pump keeps going but it doesn't drain.

Looking for ideas.

[Stu Jackson]

Doug,  what's a non-diaphragm pump?  Usually the diapragm pumps can suck up liquids whereas other pumps need a head of water to work with.  I also don';t understand remvoing the check valve, which would let any water run back into the sump.  Can you be more specific on the exact pump you have?  This is to be better able to help you out.

[Ron Hill]

Doug : It sounds to me like you have a partial blockage and it is in the 90 elbow of the floor drain fitting.  The reason that Catalina used a diaphragm pump in the early boats is that rotary pumps back then were: 1. less efficient than a diaphragm pump and  2. (you guessed it!) Rotary pumps Cost More!!!

Here's what I'd try to clear that elbow/hose.  Pry off the "caulked on" strainer in the corner of the head floor.  Make yourself a probe and clear out that blockage.  After it's cleared out, you need to put a strainer and a one way valve back into that line so the the hair and junk won't flow thru and bugger up the impeller of your new shower drain pump.  Also try to "ream out" that hose from the elbow floor drain. Maybe a good blast of air and water would help clear out the junk.  Water to flow easily.
Look in the Feb 2007 Mainsheet C34 tech Notes for my article on the "Shower Drain Strainer & Back-flow Valve". 
Good Luck   

[Stu Jackson]

I remember Ron had replaced his check valve.  When ours clogged up, I simply repaired it by taking it apart.  Good luck.

[sailingdolphin]

The pump is the same kind used for the fresh water system.  Shurflo 3.4gpm 40 psi 10 amp  .  I took the checkvalve off just for testing to see if there was an obstruction. I ran a probe all the way through a few times and that didn't seem to work. Are these kind of pumps more effiecient than the old diapragm pumps?

Are you saying this kind of pump won't pump if there is air in the line? The pump is positioned above the waterline so there is air between where the water goes through the drain in the hose and the pump until the pump sucks out the air and the water starts going through the pump.

What is mysterious is it usually drains for a few seconds when I first turn on the pump then the pump keeps pumping but it doesn't drain. I turn it off turn it back on and it will drain for a few seconds and stop again.  I will try blowing some air through.

[Stu Jackson]

The issue with the pump is to determine if it is a self priming pump and can run dry.

[Wayne]

Could there be something blocking your outlet?  If there is air between the pump and the outlet, it would move water momentarily until the air became compressed, pressurized, and reached equilibrium.

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

What was the result after you took out the check valve? Did you check it before and after the check valve to confirm water flow?

Mike

[sailingdolphin]

The result was the same taking the check valve out.  It works intermitently.  Nothing is blocking the out let because I put on new hoses and I took off the hose from the vented loop to the thru hull and it still worked the same.  Intermitently.

[Stu Jackson]

Doug, the reason I asked about the type of pump was because of the pump's ability to work as self-priming.  The old diaphragm pump could suck the water up.  Whether your new pump can do that or not may be an issue.  See: http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/westadvisor/10001/-1/10001/PumpTypes.htm.  The intermittent operation may be because the new pump can't suck the water up the same way the old diaphragm pump could.  The fresh water pumps are pretty much at the level of the water tanks, or actually below the aft tank, so they do not need to be self priming.

In order to determine if that's the case, here's what I would do:  take the discharge off the pump and either let it run free or attach a hose to it and run it into a bucket or back onto the head floor.  Run water into the shower sump and turn the pump on.  If there's little or no flow, it means the pump is simply not working in that situation where the water is lower than the pump and the pump may NOT be self-priming.  If that happens, you need a different type of pump.

The check valve, as you most lilely know, is there to stop water from draining back down into the sump.

[sailingdolphin]

Stu I did your test and nothing pumped out.  It must be the pump. I put it back together and it still pumps intermitently

Has anyone put a shower sump in the bilge?  West Marine has 2 different pumps for the shower drain $200 or $234.00.  A shower sump is only $100.00 and its automatic you don't have to mess with the switch.

[Stu Jackson]

Doug

It appears you have two choices:  obtain the right pump (diaphragm or the one Ron Hill used - I've searched for Ron's specific pump selection but couldn't find it)  OR drain into the bilge.

One of the "downsides" of the original Catalina 30 shower system was that it drained into the bilge and people found that smells and clogged bilge pumps resulted, so many C30 owners installed separate shower sump systems (like the C34s came with!).  There is also the counter argument that says soapy water cleans your bilge!   

The May 2001 Tech Notes includes an article with a picture of how to access the shower sump.

A search on the phrase "shower sump" finds a few hits one of which discusses going into the bilge.

Your boat, your choice.

[sailingdolphin]

Stu the system I was talking about is http://www.catalinayachts.com/ViewPic.cfm?pic=P1290076.jpg

It is an enclosed bilge pump in sealed box with a float switch.  Install it in the bilge where it is lower than the shower drain.  Run the shower drain hose to the shower sump system in the bilge and put a T on your existing bilge hose so it pumps out through it.  This way you bypass the switch and it works automatically when ever there is water from the shower.  It has been more than once I have forgotten to turn on the breaker switch before I get  in the shower.  Also these systems are only $100.00 compared to $200 to $240 for a shower pump

[Stu Jackson]

Doug

Defender has a better price than WM on diaphragm pumps (yikes, $50 LESS): http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|51|299222|84462|315208&id=84916

You're right, both WM and Rule make these "shower sump" kits, and they do cost less.  Trick is to find the space, since the WM is almost 9 inches wide and the Rule is over 11 inches.

If you do the T, you'll need to put a check valve in BOTH lines to the T (the sump package includes one) or each pump will simply pump back into the other one.  By the time you're done with the new hoses and clamps and check valves, there goes the $$ difference maybe.

Check valves in pump lines that go overboard are considered, at best, questionable.  I actually bought a check valve assembly for our bilge pump to minimize back-flowing when it shut off, but never put it in after I did some more research.

I, too, have forgotten to turn the panel switch on, and don't we always KNOW that just when we're all lathered up and there's two inches of water on the floor already!   

It's a boat, there are always more than one way to do things.  If your existing sump and hoses and check valve to the pump are OK, you might consider returning the pump you bought, or keep it for a spare for the main freshwater pump.

[Ron Hill]

Doug : Give your shower drain pump a try. 
However, ANY rotary pump should work. 
The expensive part of any pump is the motor, NOT the pump.  I'd call the manufacture of your pump and let them know you have a problem.  "A telephone call is worth a thousand Emails"
(a Ron saying!!)