Below-deck autopilot

[Jon Schneider]

Has anyone installed a below-deck autopilot?  (I have a Mk I, though I'm not sure how different the space is around the rudder quadrant between the two models.)  There was an earlier posting, which didn't get a lot of action, that suggested there might be a problem in fitting it in the space (without permanently removing the water tank).

[gerard]

I have planned to buy (and to install) an autopilot this winter. I am doubting between the ST 4001 and the ST 6001. A few sailors strongly recommended the St 6001 (below-deck autopilot). I am thinking to buy the St 6001 (S1G System Pack with AST  Advanced Steering Technology).
I have two questions:
- Has anybody experience with the ST 6001 on a Catalina 34?
- Is this package easy to install?

[Jim Price]

Most of us that have autohelms have the ST 4000 series.  I have it on 1991 MK I.  My understanding is that the 4000 series is sufficient for our weight boats (and that has been an interesting question lately @ 16,000+ pounds).  The 6000 is for heavier boats and should also work but just more expensive.  Your choice - your money.

Mine came on boat from Catalina but there is plenty of space even with the large aft water tank.  I am sure you would have to remove the aft bulkhead for installation but once installed, plenty of room.

[Jon Schneider]

Jim, I'm looking to replace my 4000 partly because it's over 10 years old and beginning to fall apart and partly because it's okay under normal conditions, but pretty incapable of handling of handling heavier winds in a following sea.  Since I pretty much always single-hand, having excess capacity is something I always aim for.  But the real reason I want to upgrade to a below-decks pilot is that I want to eliminate the noise of the motor drive.  I just hate; it ruins the sailing experience for me.  I'm sure a new 4000 equivalent would be quieter than my old one, but probably not good enough.

Meanwhile, Catalina began to answer my question by sending me a few pictures of a factory installation.  They still leave a few questions/issues, but start to let me visualize how to do this installation (if anybody wants the pix, just email me; they're in a doc that's too big to attach here).  Looks like I'll probably have to replace the aft tank with something a bit smaller, but I'll need to really take a hard look at the space.  It's difficult to tell, but Catalina seems to be indicating that the motor drive can actually be attached to underside of the cockpit deck (at least on a Mk II).  If that's the case, that goes a long way in relieving my hesitation about having to add a stringer and tab in a mounting platform.  If anybody has such a set up and could take more pix of the installation, that would be really appreciated. 

[Mark G]

I had the latest 4000 unit installed two seasons ago and have been delighted with the performance, even in heavy conditions. We have run ours 90 miles across Lake Michigan under power with rolly seas on the front quarter, no problem. I agree completely on the noise, though. Hate it, especially on nicer days when the two of us just want to flip it on to relax and have something to eat. I've sailed a good bit on other types of boats with the auto installed below. Much nicer.

[tommyt]

It seems that most of you with the ST4000 are happy with them. Mine came standard on our 2004 34 and I have to say I can't stand the thing. I have had probelms with it since day one and have gotten little help from tech support. They want me to add additional components such as rudder gain and say that will solve the problem. The next person I talk to says that should not be the problem or it would have come with rudder gain.

Mine wanders, and if it was just while sailing I would say I did a lousy job trimming sails. However, on a perfectly flat day with no wind and under power, if I don't correct the deviation every couple of hours, my wake looks like a I have had way too many.It just over steers. I have done everything that Raymarine has suggested, I have had a tech work on the boat and move the fluxgate, and just stay frustrated with it. It is great for single handling tacking, but beyond that the equipment is a piece of junk as far as I am concerned.

Having said that, I sailed a C38 with the 6000 and thought it was wonderful. Held course in all conditions whether sailing or motoring. The hydraulics are quiet and it does not over steer as my 4000 does. I would say that my next autopilot would be a 6000 or 6001, but I am not enamored with Raymarine based on their lack of help with my problems. Any insight from someone who has had my problems and corrected them?.

[Stu Jackson]

TT, you asked: "Any insight from someone who has had my problems and corrected them?"

Corrections have been posted, but that was pre-rudder gain and other costly additions used by the manufacturer to cure its original ills.

Yes, there have been voluminous discussions about the ST4000 (do a search????), but they have been a "topic of discussion" on this and many other boards.

We solved it with the choice of an ST3000, see:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=3043.0

There are links to the settings for the original unit, and all its "add-ons" - although some do say it works for them.

[Mark G]

TT: Forgive me if you've already tried this. I started to adjust my 3000 unit years ago on my C30. I spent half the summer going through the water like an anaconda. Then a dealer suggested I go back to factory settings. I did and had much better experience.

The ST 4000 on my C34 wing keel is pretty much set to the defaults. In rolling seas, it takes a bit to settle in but then tracks quite nicely. The biggest mistake I made initially was trying to fiddle before the computer averaged in conditions and got into a groove.

[tommyt]

Thanks for the advise on the factory defaults. I will try that when she goes back in the water in April. Funny, help desk never suggested that remedy. I will try almost anything to improve the performance. I would have added the rudder gain if they would have been consistent in recommending it.

Thanks again.

Tom

[rirvine]

Here is the answer that I got from Raymarine for ST 4000 set up.  Using these setting and tightening my steering cables solve all my ST4000 issues.

"Assuming that you got a good deviation number, 10 degrees or less, when you did the compass linearization when you did the seatrial, we can move away from the compass for now.  If you did not get a reading of 10 degrees or less, try re-doing the linearization immediately.  If your Catalina is in the neighborhoood of 2 or fewer turns of the wheel to go lock to lock, change these 4 settings in the Dealer Calibration page in unison to the following:

Rudder Gain to 2
Drive Type to 2
Response to 2
AutoTrim to 2

If your Catalina has less than 2 turns lock to lock, you may eventually drop the Rudder Gain down to 1, but bringing these four settings to 2 initially should get the boat under control so that the other adjustments are just tweaks to your boat's individual handling characteristics." Sometimes called the Catalina Cocktail.