Sticky Lewmar 46 ST winch

[Tony Benoit]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

My starboard Lewmar 46 ST primary winch will not turn freely if I try to spin it by hand.  When it's loaded, I can trim the genny using the handle (with some effort), but it is very difficult to pull the line by hand (e.g., to take the slack out of the new working sheet during a tack).

If I remove the self-tailing horn, the winch will spin, though the little black plastic tab inside the two jaws of the tailing hat was quite stiff.  I separated the two jaws,  and cleaned some old grease off the plastic parts and lubed with some Lewmar winch oil (not grease).  Now if I drop the horn on top of the tab and hold it in place by hand (not much downward pressure), I can spin the drum.

But, here's where it gets sticky:  The horn is held on by two brass clips--like e-rings--that sit flat on top of the horn and lock into slots on either side of the spindle of the winch.  On my starboard winch, these don't want to go in easily.  It looks like the slots in the spindle are ~1/64" too low.  With some persuasion, I can get the clips to seat.  Then a flat plastic cap covers the clips and four Phillips-headed machine screws lock-in the clips and hold down the cap.  It seems that the clips are compressing the horn down on top of the self-tailer.  The horn (chromed brass) sits stationary while the self-tailer (plastic) rotates underneath it.

I looked at the port winch, which spins freely.  The clips can be easily removed and replaced from that winch.

I looked for something that might be holding the winch drum high on the spindle, but I can't see anything.  The inside of the drum was pretty clean.  I thoroughly cleaned the tops and the bottoms of the self-tailer on the sticky winch.  But still the whole assembly rides high.

I've a mind to remove a thin layer of plastic from the top of the self-tailer to see if that gives an easier fit.

Has anyone encountered this problem before?

Thanks,

Tony
'89 #903
Helen C.
Standard, Wing

[Ron Hill]

Tony : I'd call Lewmar (800)326-7212/(714)838-1112 and get their advice. 
My SAYING applies to this situation!!:
When you ask the manufacturer - you're talking to the horses mouth.  When you pose the same question to the internet you'll get an answer, but you won't know which end of the horse is speaking !!!!!   A thought   

[Craig Illman]

Checkout the two articles (with pictures) on the http://www.catalina36.org/ site. While they detail a bit newer L48ST, the only difference is that your cap (and mine) has four bolts retaining it and their newer model screws on. The pictures might give you a better idea of how the winch is put together. I serviced my two primaries last Sunday after going through these two articles and it was very straight forward. It sounds like the collets might be corroded or something else sticking. I had to stick my winch handle in the center shaft to lift it a bit to get the collets seated, otherwise everything went back together smoothly.

- Craig

[Ron Hill]

Guys : If you're going to take one of your winches apart while the boat in the water - here's a recommendation.
 
Get the bottom cardboard from a carton of 24 cans of soda or bottles of water.  Then cutout a circle in the center the size of the winch base.  Put the cutout carton over the winch.  The lips on the carton will help catch parts -- before they are offered to the Stainless Steel God (who lives in the water on the bottom). 
A thought!   

[Craig Illman]

Good suggestion! The winch base is about 1/2" bigger in diameter than a standard gallon can of paint (to trace a hole to cut). It keeps the inevitable grease off the non-skid. I also laid an old towel on the cockpit seat to lay out the assorted parts.

Craig

[rirvine]

You can find a Lewmar service manual at:

http://www.pyacht.net/online-store/scstore/Lewmar_Winch_Service_Manual.pdf

[Mike Vaccaro]

Tony,

It's likely that something is either broke, missing or misassembled.  Believe that your best bet is to make a plastic or cardboard work surface that you can slip under the winch, and then take the winch completely apart.  Lewmar makes a servicing kit with pawls, springs, etc as well as another with grease and a copy of the maintenance manual.  As a rule of thumb, winches should be torn down from time to time for cleaning and grease.  We have found that the part most likely to fail on these winches is the plastic "stripping ring" (the one that rotates beneath the stationary tailing horn and carry spares on board.  The part second most likely to cause trouble are the tiny pawl springs that are usually more affected by neglect (dirt and lack of grease) than anything else.

When you disassemble the winch, clean the components to remove old dirt and grease.  A tooth brush is handy for this.  Old, dried out grease and salt deposits retain dirt which causes wear and tear on components.  After cleaning, follow the re-assembly instructions in the manual and it's likely that things will go back together properly.  In addition to the overhaul kits, Lewmar makes replacement parts for all of the components in the winch so if something is broken, you should be able to find what you need to fix it. 

Best of luck,

Mike

[Jim Price]

Another piece of advise - when Lemar says "lightly grease" they mean "LIGHTLY GREASE!!".  And this is especially true with the pawls, just ONE DROP WILL DO. 

Most of the time we think more lub is better but with these wenches; it ain't so.  The over lubrication will cause the bearings to gum up as they aren't always being used 24 hours a day.  And too much lub on the pawls will ultimately cause them to attract grime, etc., and begin to stick - always at the wrong time.  Just follow the maintenace guide and use less than you think is the right amount for "lightly".

[Stu Jackson]

Tony

I'll try step-by-step, commenting on your post.

1.  If I remove the self-tailing horn, the winch will spin, though the little black plastic tab inside the two jaws of the tailing hat was quite stiff.  I separated the two jaws,  and cleaned some old grease off the plastic parts and lubed with some Lewmar winch oil (not grease).  Now if I drop the horn on top of the tab and hold it in place by hand (not much downward pressure), I can spin the drum.

I recommend using the appropriate terms from the winch service manual.  With your year boat ('89) I'd
guess that you have a pre-Ocean, not an Ocean series winch.  The pre-Ocean series has four screws that hold the top cap down.  The Ocean series, shown in the manual posted above as a reference by Ray Irvine, ONLY shows these newer winches, where the top cap gets screwed off.  One of the later pages in the manual says if you need a manual for a pre-Ocean series, like your 46ST, you need one published in 1985!  SO, it seems like you have a pre-Ocean series.  Calder's Boatowner's Manual, 2nd edition, page 522, shows a Lewmar winch assembly of (y)our vintage.

I also don't understand "...though the little black plastic tab inside the two jaws of the tailing hat was quite stiff..."  There doesn't seem to be something like that in Calder's diagram or from what I can recall on my winches.  See below.

2.   But, here's where it gets sticky:  The horn is held on by two brass clips--like e-rings--that sit flat on top of the horn and lock into slots on either side of the spindle of the winch.  On my starboard winch, these don't want to go in easily.  It looks like the slots in the spindle are ~1/64" too low.  With some persuasion, I can get the clips to seat.  Then a flat plastic cap covers the clips and four Phillips-headed machine screws lock-in the clips and hold down the cap.  It seems that the clips are compressing the horn down on top of the self-tailer.  The horn (chromed brass) sits stationary while the self-tailer (plastic) rotates underneath it.

The horn is called the feeder arm.  I assume you mean the chromed arm that sticks downward.  The e=-rings are called collets.   The self-tailer is called the crown, and the stripper ring goes between the upper and lower crowns.  From bottom up, it's: lower crown, stripper ring, upper crown, feeder arm, Collete and top cap.  The collets are also much larger, and are just as you describe on the pre-Ocean series winches, since the manual shows the collets as much small pieces on the newer Ocean models. 

3.   I looked at the port winch, which spins freely.  The clips can be easily removed and replaced from that winch.  I looked for something that might be holding the winch drum high on the spindle, but I can't see anything.  The inside of the drum was pretty clean.  I thoroughly cleaned the tops and the bottoms of the self-tailer on the sticky winch.  But still the whole assembly rides high.

I think you're on the right track, in comparing the two winches, and you're right that something seems to be riding high.  Just cleaning the tops and bottoms may NOT be enough.  For instance, have you cleaned, COMPLETELY, the area where the collets slide in?

4...I've a mind to remove a thin layer of plastic from the top of the self-tailer to see if that gives an easier fit.

I wouldn't recommend taking anything out until you completely disassemble the winch.  It could very well be that a little dirt underneath could be raising the assembly just enough to throw the alignment out.

What is the: "...thin layer of plastic from the top of the self-tailer ..."???

To summarize:  (1) I hope you have Calder's book, it's helpful to use the right terms – dang, sorry, just another engineer talking;  (2) take the WHOLE ENTIRE COMPLETE winch apart, not just some of it, and check on those two things you mentioned "...little black plastic tab inside the two jaws of the tailing hat..." and "...thin layer of plastic from the top of the self-tailer...";  DON'T mess around by taking things away from a complete assembly, unless they don't belong there ("thin layer of plastic"??) – the loads on that winch are tremendous, and the LAST thing you want to do is mess up a VERY expensive piece of critical equipment, or hurt yourself or a guest.

If it was my boat, I would buy the book, take the entire winch apart, and while at it, also do the port winch and get them both working.  Worst case: you find something you can't fix, and can find someone local to help, and get parts from Lewamr.