steering/rudder system lubricants

[Ken Heyman]

Just curious what the "lubes" of choice might be for the steering cables, chain linkages running through the inside of the pedestal, quadrant turning or bearing surfaces and anything else in the system requiring lubrication. I've seen differing opinions on this matter so I thought I would start fresh.

Thanks in advance,

Ken

[Craig Illman]

I believe Edson recommends 30W for the cable & chain. Teflon grease for the plastic roller bearings. They have good information on their website. www.edsonmarine.com

The specific link is: http://www.edsonmarine.com/support/PDFs/planning/EB381SteeringGuide.pdf

- Craig

[Ron Hill]

Ken : Great Question!!
I've always lubed the chain and cables with Vaseline rather than oil.  When you do that make sure that it doesn't drip down on the "brake".  Also I periodically clean the brake center drum with a long Qtip dipped in lacquer thinner - this insures that there's some friction.

While you're lubing things in the steering system don't forget the 2 idler pulleys that change the direction of the cables.  You'll have to remove the "dog house" in the aft overhead of the aft cabin to get at the base of the steering pedestal.  The C34s 1988 and BEFORE have bronze pins thur the idler pulleys.  These wear, that's why Edson changed to stainless pins in 1989.  You can lube those pins, but to really inspect/replace then you'll have to remove the aft water tank to really get at the steering cables and cotter pins that hold them in place.  After you lube the pins have someone turn the wheel and you watch to make sure that as the cables move the idler pulleys are turning.  If you have a frozen pulley the stainless cable and pulley WILL wear.  I've always squirted some liquid Teflon in those pin & pulleys and made sure that they stay lubed &turning. 
Also take a piece of Kleenex and run it along the cable that you can get at - if you have a broken strand it'll snag the Kleenex.  Then re lube the cable with Vaseline.   

I wrote this inspection procedure up in the Mainsheet tech note many years ago.  Good info in those tech notes!!   

[Ken Heyman]

Thanks guys,

I'm one of those guys that suffers from the "out of sight -out of mind" syndrome. I really hadn't done much with the steering system so your comments will "grease" the way for long awaited maintenance. Ron - as always thanks for the in depth suggestions---sorry I missed it in the tech notes.

Ken

[Craig Illman]

re: Idler pins

Ron H. has commented many times about Edson changing the idler pins to stainless in about 1988-89, but Catalina must have had significant inventory of the crossed idler assembly. My 1991, hull 1150 had brass pins. I had a slight amount of play in one of the idlers and removed it to check it. I've ordered replacement pins (960-A-1315A $22 ea.) and oilite bushings (960-A-472-A $7 ea.) from Edson. Another instance of you can't assume anything.

Craig

[Ron Hill]

Craig : Right ON.  Edson started that they changed to stainless pins in 1989, but that does not mean that your 1989 doesn't have bronze pins. 
To whit: Catalina must have had a box car full of the old wiring harnesses when they got rid of the ampmeter in the 1988 engine insturment panel that continued to be wired until 1992/3!!

[tonywright]

Really good thread. Got me thinking and carefully reading the Edson on-line manuals. They recommend Super Lube Multipurpose Teflon (PTFE) grease for the needle bearings (this is the same as part 827), and #30 oil for the chain, cables and sheave bearings, and teflon spray for the control cables to the throttle and transmission.

Here is the link to the relevant manual (go to page 9 and 10): http://www.edsonmarine.com/support/PDFs/planning/EB381SteeringGuide.pdf

This is the best exploded view diagram I found of the pedestal: http://www.edsonmarine.com/support/PDFs/installation/EB424_336PedShaftRemoval.pdf

Ron, I wonder about your choice of vaseline for the chain? Edson specifically warns against using grease on the chain because it does not penetrate the links. To avoid dripping oil, might a teflon spray be better? It is promoted for use on motorcycle chains, so it seems to be that it could be good for this application, and avoid drips.

I discovered that Edson recommends changing the cables every five years. Anyone done this?

The one area of their recommendation I have a hard time picturing on a C34 is this one:

"On a new boat and at least once a year, inspect the system when
under a strong load. On a calm day and under power, go away from
the other boats and with the person who is assigned the
maintenance watching from below, put the wheel hard over at full
throttle. The maintenance man should watch carefully for all parts of
the system bending, distorting, creaking, or giving any indication of
failing if placed under a heavy load for a period of time. If, for any
reason something did fail or needs adjusting, the day is early and you
will have plenty of time.

Any tips on exactly where the "maintenance man" would go to do this?  OK how many have actually ever done this  ?

Tony

[Jon Schneider]

Conducting a steering-system sea trial is no doubt a good idea, but I haven't done it.  It wouldn't be too difficult after removal of the aft wall.  Frankly, it'd be kind of fun to the in the aft berth on blustery day ;)

[waterdog]

A maintenance man?   I had no idea our boats came with a maintenance man.  I think either the previous owner had him removed or I should go looking for the body under the v-berth because there doesn't seem to be any evidence of him doing anything.   It seems I have to do it all myself...

[David Sanner]

I need to make the change over to stainless... but $22/pin!

One note about the genius behind Edson: when (if) you inspect
your system check on the state of the connection between the
steering chain and the cables.  (Very difficult to view however.)

I had a rough time in a race when my steering let get
because this connection failed. 

How did it fail...  I blame the genius behind Edson.

The cables are stainless end with a swaged loop eye and
thimble.  Unfortunately Edson uses a flat metal shackle
(instead of having a rolled over or round shackle)
to connect the chain to the cable which puts pressure on
two points inside thimble.  Eventually these pressure points
caused the thimble to fail and then very quickly ate
through the stainless cable and the entire system failed.

The ironic note is that I was always concerned about the
other end of the cable because they had no thimble, just
a cable loop rubbing on the eye bolt on the quadrant.
That end never had an issue because the eye bolt doesn't
have any sharp corners like the Edson shackle connected to
the end of the chain.

You would think since Edson specializes in this sort of thing
and the costs of their gear ( $22 for a stainless pin!!!) they
would have chosen the right kind of shackle for the application.
Must have cost them another 20 cents per unit.

[Ken Juul]

I thought my steering brake needed to be rebuilt, but when I got the compass off and took a look I have plenty of brake pad material left.  I called Edson for suggestions on improving the steering brake performance.  They said the pads tend to dry out, try moistening  them with 30wt engine oil. Gave them a squirt, will check this weekend to see if the oil helped.

[Craig Illman]

Chain/cable assembly - The Edson datasheet for C34s & C36s lists a 775-2S15B9 for the chain/cable assembly. It's 1.5 feet of chain and 9 feet of cable. It was about thirty inches of extra cable on each leg and the bare minimum of chain. I think I'd go for a 775-2S2B7 (2'/7') if I was going to do it again. I think I'm going to get the cable portion replicated from my old assembly (as a spare) for a lot less money that what Edson charges.

Craig