Ideas on evaporator location in ice box & how others have set up the inside

[sailingdolphin]

 For example have others:
taken out the plexiglass shelves altogether?

Using the entire space all the way to the bottom?

Built in new shelves?

Cut a small hole in the top shelf and hinge it so you dont have to take everything out just open the small lid and stck your arm down?

I am looking for any and all ideas and pictures please.

[Stu Jackson]

Doug,

Not sure on what your goal here is, but we haven't changed the original setup on our #224, 1986 setup, even when cruising out for over a week.  Both plastic inserts are installed.

For day-sails and normal use, we just put the stuff on the upper shelf.

For longer periods, we stash excess stuff that needs to stay cold on the lower shelf, and then load the upper shelf.

Yes, sometimes it's "rearranging time" but we haven't felt any need to make any modifications to a simple setup that works.

Cutting the upper shelf in half would be a good idea for flexibility, but you still have to move half the stuff anyway.  Our PO did that.  Cut is athwartships, midway in length.

We have never needed to put anything below the lower shelf, but that sure is a lot of additional storage space.

[Jim Price]

I use a coated wire rack (closet type material) arrangement in our box.  The bottom shelf is just that, an open wire shelf placed upside down so it has a lip to keep things in place.  The top shelf is also wire (again inverted) but I picked up a couple of small coated wire baskets at K-Mart that together, fit perfectly on the the top shelf.  Small stuff is put into those baskets and don't get lost below.  Can be used to hold soft drink cans for example (they freeze and then explode when on lower area).  Each basket can be removed by itself when I need to reload or poke around in it.

I load the bottom forward area (no shelf) with the beer as it doesn't freeze but this puts it low (weight) and very cold.

Oh yea, I have a cold plate system in my refrigerator so I don't need the space for ice and the wire shelves lets the coldest air sink to bottom level.

[Rick Johnson]

Jim, they say great minds think alike.

Sounds like my setup is the same as yours.  The PO had installed a cold plate with a 3/4 plywood box around it to form a freezer section.  It killed all the space for anything more then a six pack in the frig section and a pint of ice cream in the freezer.  I removed the plywood and set the cold plate for about 60 degrees.  Bought the wire shelves at Home Depot for about $4 (steel with a white plastic coating) and spent a hour getting the shape just right.

One word of caution, do not use a hatchsaw over the unprotected cockpit - I had a devil of a time getting all those steel filings up so they didn't rust and leave little pin marks of rust.

I used the liquid rubber from Home Depot (the kind for coating tool handles) to seal the ends and cushion the ends against the sides of the icebox (by the way that liquid rubber worked great for re-doing the ends of the gates on my swim ladder).

I'm very happy with the results and the amount of room I now have.

Cheers

[Jim Price]

Sorry, I forgot that important step - I also sealed the ends to aviod scratching the surface in the box.  You can also uses the shelf wire endcaps if you have some extras from a closet project.

[sailingdolphin]

Stu,

My goal is to finally put an adler barbour in.  I am trying to figure out the best place to install the evaporator-vertical.

The other ideas are great!

Do most people have it on the left side and how far up to the top?

Also has anyone installed the foil bubble rap heat barrier they use for insulation inside the ice box? in addition

Can you use the "big stuff" foam insulation at home depot for around the outside areas of the box?

[Jim Price]

My system is Isotherm cold plate.  I believe it is about a 3" thick plate; system is water cooled.

I have the cold plate mounted at top of box on forward side (toward the settee) and the water cooled compressor unit is located under the salon settee on the starboard side.

The PO had another unit originally installed and he did the insulation which is a type of expanding foam that was used on all sides of the box between the hull and bulkheads.

Search the C34 site for more info as there was a discussion a while back about different insulation options.

[Stu Jackson]

Our Adler Barbour was mounted as OEM on a plywood shelf in the lazarette, starboard side, just aft of the water tank.  The copper tubing runs underneath the aft cabin, behind the stove and into the box.  The evaporator is a vertical model, located on the aft face of the box, toward the midships side, with the thermostat on the aft face outboard.  The refrigerant lines are insulated with some sort of "gunk" as they go through the wall.  The supply line is insulated with black foam pipe insulation, probably 1/2 inch size.

Our box is NOT insulated.  We've used it in California Delta heat successfully on our 2004 cruise, although it does cool down at night ( from 90 to 55), and sometimes we've turned it off at night to reduce amp consumption.  Insulation is a real help, but I haven't found it necessary, based on our use and an ample house bank (315 ah).  Although we still have the OEM alternator, the Automac gives us a boost for charging.  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm still working on the alternator replacement (have the materials and equipment, not the time, yet).

The evaporator is long enough to require that the top shelf plastic be cut to fit around it.  The vertical ice cube trays are a great idea and work just fine -- they should come with an aluminum extrusion "holder" which is piece of aluminum in a U shape so the bottom lies flat, one side against one wall of the base of the evaporator, so the other side of the U leaves enough space to "jam" the vertical tray between it and the other wall of the evaporator.  It's a neat and simple idea that keeps the ice cube tray standing upright; make sure you get it when you order.

The only issues we've had with our AB unit is having to replace the condenser fan -- twice in 8 years for us, don't know if the PO had to.  Costs about $50, and I put them in myself.

I'm not sure if the refrigerant hoses are long enough to place the evaporator anywhere else in the box but the aft wall, if your compressor unit is placed in the lazarette.

One thing our surveyor did note is that if the refrigerant pipes go behind the stove they could be subject to damage from the gimbaled stove.  We don't loosen the stove ever when we're moving, so it's not an issue for us.

If you read the old Tech Notes, you'll find some have placed the compressor under the settee seat forward of the mast.  I've got part of my house bank there.   In any event, make sure you have adequate ventilation.  For us the lazarette works just fine, and we keep the area around the unit free from anything that we "stuff down there!"

The most important consideration when adding refrigeration:  enlarge your house bank battery capacity and DO NOT add a separate battery dedicated to the refrigeration unit.  Maximize your house bank and work everything on the DC side off the house bank, with a separate start battery.

There have been many posts on refrigeration, with many members offering sage advice on the advantages and disadvantages of different refrigeration systems: Frigoboat, Isotherm, Norcold, A/B, air vs. water cooled, etc.  Your boat, your choice.  We've enjoyed the A/B with no problems other than the fans for eight years now, and the unit is 20 years old!

[Ron Hill]

Doug : Take the unattached evaporator unit and move it around the inside of the box until Donna likes the location!!  My 1st Mate spends alot more time in that fridge than I do.  I'm usually called only when it's necessary to get something from the very bottom.
Also make sure that the center of the evaporator unit is accessible so it's easy to get out the ice cube trays and the frozen food! 

[sailingdolphin]

Good Advice Stu and Ron.

Stu I already have 440 ah for the house bank so I am ok there. Stu do you here it running at night if you sleep back there?

I read this post:
We ran the tubing pretty much as Ron describes, going straight under the aft cabin bed and into the storage space under the little "bench" on the starbd side.  From there, through the wall, and behind the stove.

my question is:
What is the disadvantage of running it from the aft bunk underneath the floor to the ice box?

Has anyone installed it near the fuel tank?  I haven't looked back there in a while to see if its even possible.

Which area do you think is quieter?

If I do install in the aft lazarette I don't have a water tank there. What do you think about installing the A/B bracket on the plywood facing forward? You wouldnt be able to see it unless you go down there but it sure would be out of the way and less likely to get wet.

[DEMERY]

I went through the same process you're going through. I believe there are only two viable locations based on the length of the line between the evaporator and the compressor.  One is the aft lazerette starboard side and the other is in front of the starboard water tank. I researched the area by the fuel tank and to the port side of the aft water tank, both were to far away. Of the two choices outlined above, I went with the aft lazerette. When I installed the refrigeration, I also upgraded my battery capacity (4 x 6 volt house bank, 1 x 12 volt starting battery). I choice to use the area in front of the starboard water tank for my starting battery. The disadvantage to the aft lazerette location is there is some noise when you're sleeping in the aft cabin. You'll only notice it at night (it's quite) and you're in the aft cabin. The advandage is the aft lazerette has lots of cubic volume of air to dissipate the heat. The settee area, probally would need to be vented and would allow additional noise and heat into the main cabin. Oh well like everything else, it just a question of compromise.

Good Luck,

Dave

[sailingdolphin]

Does anyone see a problem with installing the bracket on the plywood as far starboard as possible but it is forward of where the propane tank usually is? Since I dont have a water tank in that space

[Ron Hill]

Doug : Dave pretty well said it all.  You want the compressor unit as low in the boat on the starboard side as possible - lower is cooler!!  That's where the factory installed it.
You can hear the compressor kick in, but it's a low unobtrusive sound.  Look at any MKI with a factory installed fridge and you see where it is. 
If you've ever had any fridge problems - it's a very comforting sound when it kicks in!! 

[Stu Jackson]

Dave's reply was very good, and summarized what we've been explaining.

Noise is NOT a problem if you sleep up forward   There have been many discussions about whether the aft cabin is a garage or a hang-out.     Try a search on "garage."  Anyway, even back in the prehistory days when we slept back there, the fridge noise did not bother us, in fact, we never heard it.

On other thing to keep in mind.  I mentioned having to replace the fridge fan, twice.  It is IMPERATIVE that you maintain access to the side of the fridge that has the two screws that hold the fan frame on, or else you'll have a devil of a time swapping out a fan in the future.  With access it's a five minutes job, without, it could take all day. 

The fan sits inside a frame and it's attached to the frame with four machine screws with unaccessible nuts.  Those machine screws need to stay IN until you take the whole frame off.  You remove the frame with two sheet-metal screws that go through the side of the housing.  Make sure you can get to them with a screwdriver.  Also remember to back off all of any access screws and coat them with Lanocote before you install the unit so you can remove the screws later when you need to do so.

[Mike Vaccaro]

Lots of different evaporator shapes available.  We use a Norcolder AC/DC system on our boat.  The new unit is relatively efficient (about 3.5 Amps), duty cycle varies with ambient temperature.  Compressor is mounted forward under the dinette and is quite quiet compared to the old unit.  It is equipped with a pan fan for circulation, and we've added an additional low-voltage fan to further circulate air through the compartment.  This is fairly efficient as this area is below the waterline.This set-up does not provide a freezer compartment, however.  Note that this plate DOES interfere with the shelf moulding.  To get around this, we built starboard rails that we screwed in place and set the shelving on top of that.

Cheers,

Mike