Universal M-25, How many hours can I expect to get out of it?

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

We are looking at an "89 C-34 with 3479 hours on the Universal M-25 engine. What is the normal life expectancy on these engines?

[willie]

I am not a expert with regard to the M-25 engine. But I have a some thoughts to consider.

The diesel engine should last 50,000 hours.

How ever so many things can happen to the engine to cause serious damage that will greatly shorten the life of the engine.

Over heating,
Not changing oil regularly.
Running the engine with out oil,
Poor break-in
Running improper governor (fuel timing)  settings

And many others. Have a qualified "Diesel" mechanic check the compresion, maybe testing an oil sample. Testing an oil sample will give a tremendous amount of information as to the condition of the engine.

Hope that helps.

[Ron Hill]

mst: The consensus opinion of the diesel people that I've talked to in the past 20 years is the number of 10,000 hours. 
That's to rebuild, so whether MANY items need to be replaced or only a few depends on how well you take care of your engine. 
As Willie pointed out many factors will determine engine life - overheating, oil changes, full power use, oil loss and catastrophic failure are the main determining factors. 
Guess that's why I use Mobile 1 (synthetic oil) -- if I use it in my autos, why not the boat?  Synthetic oil get dirty, but it doesn't wear out!   

[Jeff Kaplan]

mst: i'm glad you asked that question, as #219, 1986, i bought 2 years ago has the m25 and less than 1300 hours now.  runs like a champ. ron ,i have been using delo30w. is the mobil1 you use a multi weight or straight weight? i hadn't thought of using a syn. oil. evidently you've had good luck....jeff

[willie]

My mistake!.

Ron, yes you are correct! I was considering commercial applications where the engine runs with out being shut down or shut down infrequently. Its possible based on my new calculations that as many times as a marine engine is started and shut down and with short run times that the engine life as low as 1500 hours is possible.

Sorry about that misstatement.

[Susan Ray]

Do you know where the boat went to get 3400+ hours?  At 5-6 knts per hour it could have nearly gone around the world, without putting up a sail. Just curious.....

[Stu Jackson]

Susan

Just a humorous evaluation of the numbers

1989 to 2006 = 16 year old boat     3,400 engine hours divided by 16 = 212.5 hours per year

Most "normal" boats use 100 hours per year, some in the Northeast where they only sail for half a year but really get around  or those of us on the left coast who sail all year round, but maybe sail more.

However, I ended up using the boat an awful lot the past few years and have averaged 200 engine hours for the past three years.  I bought the boat in '98 with 888 hours, have 1806 now.  While that's a straight average of less than 200 per year, we used her more in the past few years than when we first started.  That's good.

5 or 6 knots at 3,400 hours is 17,000 or 20,400 miles, just short of going around the equator.

Could be a charter that was used a lot, or could be a boat owned by a retired skipper who got to use her a lot.

End result, as long as the engine was cared for and the oil changed regularly, this puppy's got a lot of life left in her.

For an '89, i would think the engine is most likely an M25XP rather than the M25.  This simply means it's a 23 HP, rather than a 21 HP, and also has two important improvements:  3 inch HX and the new alternator bracket, installed as OEM.

mst: I recommend that you check out the exact engine you have in that boat.

[Ron Hill]

Susan : I've got a 1988 and getting close to 5000hrs. 
Stu is correct that the boat has a M25XP engine. The M25 was in the 1986 unless they had a few left over to install in the 1987s.

As I've said many times - I wouldn't recommend anyone buy a boat that didn't have about 150-200 hrs a year on the engine.  That tells you that the engine has been run and most important the the engine has probably gotten up to and stayed at operating temperature for more than 5 minutes.  Diesels like to be worked.

I've also seen where the blower has been run(engine off), thinking that was sucking out warm air from the engine compartment.  I won't argue whether that works or not, but with the key switch ON to run the blower - the tach clock is also ON!!
Some owners do "different" things.   

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

Thanks to all of you for your help and info. Looks like the deal is going forward but I will be gettind a survey and a diesel mechanic to check it out for me before I finalize. Mike

[Susan Ray]

STU: AFTER 19 YEARS THE ORIGINAL (AND ONLY OTHER) OWNER PUT ON 448 HOURS ON MY C34. IT ARRIVED HERE WITH 662 HOURS (NOT MUCH WIND ON THE CROSSING) AND  I HAVE ONLY ADDED 6 HRS IN 6 MONTHS, AS I DON'T SAIL ALOT. (UNDERSTATEMENT).
WE ARE LUCKY HERE AND USUALLY HAVE TRADE WINDS AS SOON AS WE ARE OUT OF THE CHANNEL (10 MIN. OF MOTORING) SO I DON'T PLAN ON ADDING MANY HOURS. AS LONG AS I MAINTAIN THE ENGINE IT WILL WAY OUTLIVE ME AND PROBABLY MY FAMILY!. THAT'S ALL I NEED.

RON...QUESTION..WHY RUN BLOWER TO SUCK OUT WARM AIR FROM ENGINE COMPARTMENT? IS THIS A BLONDE QUESTION?
 
MIKE: IF YOUR MECHANIC HAS THE OIL ANALYZED, DON'T FORGET THE TRANSMISSION OIL.
ALOHA,
SUSAN

[Stu Jackson]

Susan

If the engine has low hours on it, there are only two theories available:  the boat [and therefore the engine] was hardly used at all OR it was used but the engine was hardly used (one of our former members asked a question about whether or not only motoring for five minutes out of his slip before he put his sails up was a good thing - our reply was: you NEED to get the engine up to operating temperature every time you use it).  One of the worst things that can happen to our engines is running them for a short period without getting up to temperature.  It's diesel engine lit 101.

Running the blower is a technique some people use to cool off the engine compartment if its really hot and after the engine itself has been turned of with the stop lever.  As Ron says, to use the blower the key switch needs to be on.  When the key switch is on, the engine hour meter starts to work.  The engine hour meter is run by the key switch, not the actual time your engine is actually running.  Usually, for most of us, it's pretty much the same.  We don't use our blower at all.

Regarding oil samples:  there seems to be a misunderstanding here.  Oil sampling only works over a period of time.  One sample is not necessarily indicative of anything, although finding "big" pieces of metal in the oil will tell you something.  You need to sample oil over a period of time and compare the results of the actual oil analysis to make any judgment of quality or any indication of condition.

The transmission oil is relatively easy:  if it's dirty, change it, then change it again a month later.  Since Dexron is pinkish, dirty transmission oil is easy to spot.

Susan, looks like you got a great engine in a super boat.

PS - Just for more giggles, knots per hour is incorrect.  Knots means speed in "per hour" measure.  Latitude 38 did a "thing" about this a few years ago.  & Please turn off the caps lock, thanks.

[Susan Ray]

thannks for the info and i stand corrected, SStu.( thiis is what happenns when i turn off the cap lock unless i correctit all. keyboard isbroken. i am ssaving for a new laptop). I do have a great boat, thanks to the PO.
Aloha

[Stu Jackson]

Susan

NOW WE KNOW how eecummings got hisstart!   

[Jeff Kaplan]

stu, i am taking all you have to say about the m25 with great interest. as posted, this will be my 2nd full season with #219. i bought her with 1371hrs. on the engine which equals to about 76hrs per year. i have since put on about 45 more hours, 20 of them coming when i bought the boat in ri and had to motor back to ma. i will only put on about 25hrs per season as i only really use the engine to get from my mooring, out of the harbor, maybe 10 mins. i will pay attention as to what temp it reaches. usually every couple of weeks we motor around just to keep the fuel moving and charge up the 2 group29 deep cycles on board. we only get 5 months of sailing up here in the n.e. so i go sailing as much as possible, using the engine when needed. so long as i maintain the engine and follow posted suggestions, i see the next owner getting an older boat with low engine hours, sometrhing i looked for...jeff

[Ron Hill]

Jeff : Be careful about starting and tootling about to recharge the batteries for a short run.  In general it takes your auto over 15min to recharge from starting - headlights on even longer. So if you don't have a hi output alternator you should really run the engine more than an hour or two if you want the batteries back up from starting and sitting for a week or more.

Susan : The bit about running the blower is not a Blonde joke - people really do that!! 
When the engine is not run at operating rpm under load for more than 5 minutes a couple of things happen.  You do not evaporate the previous condensation that's in the oil pan and the carbon build is not blown out.  So the quick - out of the slip - and hoist the sail, is not helping your engine.  It sure looks good on the engine hours, but????