FLIX!!! of NAPA Fuel Pump #610-1051

[Stu Jackson]

Here's an update on these pumps.  Greg Sherwood, former Fleet Captain of Fleet One here in San Francisco, was inquiring with a local vendor about fuel pumps since he was having some issues with his pump.  Greg is the captain of his C34 for sail tours of the Bay.

From: baymarinediesel@comcast.net [mailto:baymarinediesel@comcast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009
To: gsherwood@sfsailtours.com

Cheaper is better is old news, we tried these pumps and subsequently everyone of these pump failed and continue to fail with short run times compared to the interrupter pumps we sell from Purolator/Facet. These electronic, little square bricks, are extremely sensitive to placement, must be below the fuel level in the tank and the run has to be relatively short. As with these solid state pumps and with regard to the interrupter type pumps, there are literally hundreds of pumps to choose from, all with different capabilities and features, getting the right pump for your application is not withing the abilities of most over the counter parts sales staff, price does vary significantly depending on quality and durability of the pump, all of our pumps are designed for and used in aviation applications, as well as, marine and automotive. With these pumps we have zero callbacks for warranty replacement.

Cheers,

Marty Chin
Bay Marine Diesel
600 Central Ave #12
Alameda, CA. 94501

----- Original Message -----
From: "MCST" <gsherwood@sfsailtours.com>
To: baymarinediesel@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009

I guess that's why the Catalina owners group recommends switching over to the NAPA pumps.  $150 versus $45.  From what I've been told, the NAPA 610-1051 or Purolator PRO12SV are both supposed to be acceptable replacements.

Thanks for the info.

Cheers,

Greg


From: baymarinediesel@comcast.net [mailto:baymarinediesel@comcast.net]
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 11:40 AM
To: gsherwood@sfsailtours.com

I just ordered 5 new faucet interrupter pumps that should be in by the end of the week. .8-6psi, 24" dry lift, no locking valves or positive shut off, 32 gallon per hour capacity, 1/8" female pipe threads.These are the same pumps used by universal at a significantly lower price. Factory Universal price is $260.70 and we sell the same pump from the manufacturers supplier at $150.00

Marty Chin
Bay Marine Diesel
600 Central Ave #12
Alameda, CA. 94501

----- Original Message -----
From: "MCST" <gsherwood@sfsailtours.com>
To: baymarinediesel@comcast.net
Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2009 10:34:31 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Website Contact Page

Hi,

We spoke for a bit at South Beach Harbor the other day regarding fuel pumps for Catalina sailboats and you mentioned you could get the cylindrical Facet pumps.  Would you send me pricing and any other info you might have.  

Thanks!

Cheers,
Greg

[Ron Hill]

Guys , Susan & D. Gill : Forget about the part numbers!!
 
The cylindrical body Facet (fuel lift) pump that was supplied with the original M25XP engines on the MK I C34(& C36s) had a fuel strainer as part of the pump and mounted in the head sink compartment (C34s).
 
When Westerbeke bought out Universal from Oshkosh (1992?); they changed the fuel flow and electrical functions of the lift pump and also change the lift pump to a Facet square body pump without a fuel strainer, that was mounted on the rear of the engine.  These were generally on M35A engines (M25XPA engines weren't normally installed in the C34/36s).  That same fuel & electrical set up is on the M25XPB and M35BC engines today.

A few thoughts.  

[jmnpe]

Now that my original fuel pump has apparently bit the dust, I will share my research regarding the Facet/Purolator electric fuel pumps.

The Facet and Purolator brands are now manufactured by Motor Components, LLC ( www.facet-purolator.com ) The original Facet Interrupter that was standard on our older boats is still available, but at the higher price noted ( about $150 online ). The "solid state" version of the Interrupter is called the GOLD-FLO pump and is available online for as little as $85 online ( www.racerpartswholesale.com ). The old NAPA #610-1051was the Facet/Purolator FEP-04SV / PRO-04SV in the current POSI-FLOW series. The CUBE pumps are basically the "brick" looking pumps that Westerbeke and other manufacturers have been using for years, but in the "solid state" version.

The "solid state" is said to mean no bearings, no diaphragms to break, and no electrical contacts. It is said to increase reliability significantly over the mechanical electric pumps ( including the old Interrupter pump ) by a significant factor. I have used on of these types of pumps as a transfer pump in years past and found them to perform quite well and to be fairly robust. The frequency of their operation ( a high "buzz" rather than "clicking" ) leads me to suspect that they could be piezoelectric based.

The current Facet/Purolator pumps which approximate the performance of the original Interrupter pump are the FEP-06SV / PRO-06SV in the POSI-FLO series; the FEP-12SV / PRO-12SV in the CUBE series; and the FEP-87SV / PRO-87SV in the GOLD-FLO series. Many or all of these are available through a number of online retailers, or on e-Bay.

The only advantages the GOLD-FLO ( Interrupter replacement ) offers over the other models is the same mounting footprint and input/output configuration as the original pump, and the presence of the replaceable 74 Micron internal fuel filter ( which is of questionable value when properly positioned AFTER the Racor filter ). For about half the price of the GOLD-FLO model, I'll probably go with the CUBE model, which seems to be more readily available than the POSI-FLO.

Regards,

John

[mainesail]

Academically trained as a mechanical engineer, I've heard of all sorts of pumps using all sorts of mechanical mechanisms.  But how exactly does a 'electronic' pump work?  How would one 'electronically' cause a pressure differential in a fluid line, creating a flow?

Sounds like a marketing gimmick to me - somewhere inside that thing is a mechanical mechanism of some sort.  It's probably also got a transistor or diode or some other 'electronic' thingy as well - so the truth-in-advertising police don't come after them.

Academically trained as a mechanical engineer, I've heard of all sorts of pumps using all sorts of mechanical mechanisms.  But how exactly does a 'electronic' pump work?  How would one 'electronically' cause a pressure differential in a fluid line, creating a flow?

Sounds like a marketing gimmick to me - somewhere inside that thing is a mechanical mechanism of some sort.  It's probably also got a transistor or diode or some other 'electronic' thingy as well - so the truth-in-advertising police don't come after them.

They are often solenoid designs..

Solenoid pumps are perhaps the most widely used "universal" type. They are designed to fit lots of universal applications such as C-34's and ski boats. They're also available in many different pressure ranges to suit a specific need.

Rather than a motor, a solenoid pump uses a piston that is actuated by an electromagnetic coil. This is what's used to generate fuel pressure and flow. By utilizing short pulses of electricity the solenoid pump can be very energy-efficient. They can also be quite long-lasting as some, but not all, don't even have internal rubber parts or bellows to wear out.

Another style uses a unique gear and rotor eccentric mechanism that squeezes the fuel within the pump to create high pressure with very little pulsation. These a re slightly less efficient electrically.

Yet anotehr style is the rotary vane which is the least efficient electrically but the best for use in a fuel polishing or recirculation system..

[Ron Hill]

Amazing to have all of this science, engineering, dissection and discussion involving a C34 engine that will run without a lift pump - because the fuel tank will gravity feed the injection pump.

Great information anyway.  

[jmnpe]

Very true, Ron.

However, the system won't purge air out of the fuel delivery system by gravity feed very quickly. The "pump" on the filter is only a little faster than gravity feed, and tears up my knuckles to boot. My main interest in a working electric fuel pump is for all the other aspects beyond just having the engine run.

I'm lazy and proud! But, that's just me.....



John

[Ron Hill]

John : You are very true about the electric fuel pump making one lazy about purging the air out of the fuel system.  That's either after a filter change or a "power boaters laps" - of running out of fuel (thank God they don't fly aircraft or I'd walk about with my steal helmet).

Just don't forget that your Racor filter bracket (in a dire emergency with no electric fuel pump) does have a finger operated pump !! to make fuel flow and purge the system of air!!   A thought