AC battery charger

[sail4dale]

I find my AC charger is now producing 0 amps.  I went thru the usual checks ... on light is indicating AC to the unit is on, have disconnected negative to the battery for 3 minutes, etc but no amps and no battery charging.

Does this sound familiar to the experts out there?    It's a stock factory furnished unit almost five years old.

[Norris Johnson]

Is this a Flyback 20 charger?

Which light is on? Red or Green?

What is the voltage reading on each bank of your board mounted volt meter?

[Stu Jackson]

What kind of charger is it?

Suggest you search for "chargers" on this board, lots of information leading to recommending Xantrex Statpower 20 or 40 depending on the size of your house bank.

[sail4dale]

Thanks for the interest.  I have done some research and it seem that if you get more than a couple of years life from the Flyback 20-3 you're lucky.
I'm told that you should have a 40 amp unit or at least a 30 amp unit to keep it from overworking.  The newer Cat34's have change to a Charles 30 amp.  I've also been told if you are buying or replacing and considering the Charles stick to the better 5000 series..... not the 2000.

Pro Mariner has offered to replace the Flyback under a limited warrenty with a 40 amp unit for $288.  1 year unconditional and 5 year pro-rated warranty.  It's a different size but I believe it will fit OK.

I'm leaning that way at present; sound like a deal.

Comments  

[Stu Jackson]

Sounds like a good deal, but make sure you are getting the right size charger.  How big is your house bank?  If it's big, like 300 to 400 amp hours, then a 40 amp is OK.  If you only have one house battery, say only a Group 27, it'll be too big.  The charger in amps should be between 10% and 20% of the house bank in amp hours.   Max is 25% because beyond that the batteries cannot accept any more charge.

The overworking stuff you heard is nonsense.  If you buy too big a charger for your bank it'll not add any charging capability to the battery bank, the battery bank just can't accept more than that in a short term intermittent charge.  The issue is to keep within limits of the time to you have to charge and the size of your charger and bank, that simple.  If you have a big bank and a 40 amp charger, it'll charge twice as fast as a 20 amp charger, but do you need to do that?  How do you use your boat?  Are you plugged in all the time except when day sailing?  Or do you motor and anchor out a lot and depend on fast short charges at fuel docks or visiting marinas?  Another case of your boat - your choice.

Either get the bigger charger and add to your house bank, or buy a smaller charger.  All of the recommended Statpower chargers are 20 or 40 amps.  Others make 30 amp models.  The newer Charles units, based on my research, previously posted, seem only recently now to be OK.  One of our members posted that he had a recall Flyback experience that he said was OK.  For close to $288 you could get a Statpower 40, and, for sure, a 20.

If you haven't, please download and read the Ample Power Primer at www.amplepower.com.  All you ever need to know about batteries, among other sources.  Also see Jim Moe's Electrical Systems, Part II at the Projects page of the main website at www.c34.org/projects/projects-electrical-system-upgrade-2.html  You could also do a search on "Charles" and find all the previous material we've discussed here, and it sounds like you may have already done that. (Charles also finds names, so stay with it!)

It's not only the charger, it's the entire electrical SYSTEM you're dealing with.

PS  What's your hull # and year?

[Ron Hill]

Dale : As Stu said, the shore power charger should be between 10 and 15% of the battery bank amp hour rating.  
My last Newmar charger lasted 17+ years, but then I only have it on while I'm on the boat.  

[Norris Johnson]

Three years ago I sent my Flyback 20 back to the factory after it "fried" the two 4 D's. They charged me about 100 bucks to repair or revise. It has preformed well since then. If I have another problem with it, I will replace it with a Statpower 20. My charger only runs when I'm on the boat. It takes it about 4 hrs to get in the Float mode. I also went to golf cart batteries at the same time.

[sail4dale]

Interesting input; thank you.  I've been checking the various units available and find that the newer ones are a different size and the Statpower and Charles are rather long for the factory "under the sink" location.  They are about 15 inches long.  

Did they relocate the charger?  If so where?  The space seem to limit the length to about 12" long.

[Roc]

I put a Statpower 40 in the same location as the Flyback, under the sink.  You're right, it is much longer, but it will fit with some minor modifications to the wood glassed in.

Here's what I did.  Using expoxy, I stuck a piece of wood below the plywood already there from the factory.  For the 2"x2" wood already mounted by the factory (I think that's about the size) that has the garbage can shelf bolted on, I cut the center out so the the upper section of the Statpower could be mounted.  The width of the Statpower is much smaller than the length of this piece of wood.  I just cut enough away of the depth to keep it flush with the new board I expoxied at the bottom, keeping the charger plumb.  There still is enough room left on this 2 x 2 board to mount the garbage can shelf back on, you just need to rearrange only some of the screws.  Now you can mount the new charger in exactly the same position and area as the flyback!

[Roc]

About the upper 2 x 2 piece of wood.  I did not cut it down all the way across.  I cut out a 'U' section only in the middle, just wide enough to fit the new charger in.  The two ends of this wood were not touched to help retain the stability of the garbage can shelf.

[sail4dale]

Your installation sounds workable but tight.  The waste basket installation it miserable to remove as it came from the factory, does your installation make it worse?  
As I understand. you mounted it vertically.  Does the bottom of the unit get close to the bilge area?  The length available seems rather tight between the basket and the bilge.
Did you have the DC or AC connections on top?

[Roc]

The only thing you need to remove is the waste basket shelf that is screwed onto the horizontal piece of wood that the factory epoxyed to the wall.  Once you remove that shelf, you can cut the 'U' shaped cut-out to accept the upper mounting holes of the charger, which is cut just wide enough so the charger slides right in.  You then epoxy a new piece of wood below the plywood attached by the factory to accept the lower mounting holes.  Yes, the charger is closer to the bilge, but there is plenty of room.  On the Statpower, the DC connections are on the bottom and the AC are on the top.  Actually, it's a nice fit. The top is right up against the bottom of the shelf that holds the waste basket, and the bottom extends a few inches lower than the original charger.

[Roc]

Forgot to answer your question about the waste basket removal......this new charger installation does nothing to inhibit the removal of the waste basket.  The shelf goes back exactly as factory installed and the removal of the waste basket remains the same.

[Stu Jackson]

Here's some earlier discussion on this topic:

http://www.c34.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=772&highlight=statpower+installation