Salt water intrusion

MarknCat · November 24, 2024, 02:55:52 PM

Hello all, thanks to a split raw water hose and an open seacock, our C34MKii needs some serious love. We are insured with Geico/Boat US and we have submitted a bunch of pics but haven't heard anything back other than they have received the claim and that sails, engine, fabric and running gear will be depreciated 80% unless we can prove it's not original. She's a 2000 hull #1483, and we don't know for sure how long she was partially submerged, but we know it was at least a few days.

Here is what I'm thinking about - how much can I ask them to include in the claim? The engine wasn't completely submerged but water got about halfway up. In the photos below you can see that the engine has salt buildup all over, I am thinking it need to come out to be properly cleaned. Same with motor mounts, etc. I also feel that anything electrical or that moves (seacocks, etc) should be replaced. The cabin cushions were floating and smell bad already, those should be replaced. All submerged pumps (macerator, fresh water, shower drain, etc) should be replaced. Water heater, inverter and house bank are toast.

But what about belts and hoses? Wiring that was sumberged? Motor mounts? Should they refinish all the doors and hatches?

We welcome feedback from someone who had been through something similar.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Df1gkzVhonQxDH537

Jim Hardesty · November 24, 2024, 06:45:31 PM

A few years ago a dock mate's boat sunk at the slip to about 3 feet above the waterline, an Endeavor 42, was only submerged for about an hour in fresh water. Was pumped out and on the hard within another hour.
His insurance company totaled the boat, he got what the boat was insured for. He purchased it back from the insurance company at an agreed salvage price and spent the rest of the season and some of the next drying it out and getting systems working again. Boat is fine now, but it was a lot of work and money. Think he may have made out on the money part at the expense of a lot of his time and effort. Engine was ok but took years to get genset working right.
I hope that secondhand information helps with your decision.
Jim

Ron Hill · November 25, 2024, 02:31:26 PM

Marken : Jim's Endeviour was in FRESH water. So Take that into consideration.

I'd say that everything that was under water (if salt) is TOAST!!

A few thoughts

girmann · November 25, 2024, 07:07:43 PM

Yikes. We have your (almost) sister boat, Mola Mola, #1488. I don't have any advice, just sorry that you're going through this. Which hose was it? (I'm going to make it a priority to replace that one this year)

When you say "depreciated 80%", was that a rider on your insurance, or is that a standard feature of boat insurance that I haven't had the pleasure of running across yet? The last boat insurance company I had put a rider on the insurance that if the engine was a factor in the claim, then there would be no reimbursement for the engine. It was one of the most bizarre things I've read. I even asked "so if my engine dies and then I end up on the rocks, you will reimburse all damage, except for the engine?" "Yes" "Even if the engine is further damaged by being on the rocks?" "That's correct. if an engine issue is found to have participated in the claim in any way, the engine is not covered" I switched insurance companies because they started attaching riders.

MarknCat · December 01, 2024, 07:39:52 AM

Quote from: Ron Hill on November 25, 2024, 02:31:26 PMMarken : Jim's Endeviour was in FRESH water. So Take that into consideration.

I'd say that everything that was under water (if salt) is TOAST!!

A few thoughts

Yea that's what I am thinking too... My intent is to remove all wiring, hose clamps, etc that were submerged. I am also thinking the engine needs to come out to have salt residue removed... There is build up in some of the joints/crevices.

No word from Geico/Boat US on their intent, and they haven't sent an inspector. I have uploaded about 20 photos to the claim though.

MarknCat · December 01, 2024, 07:47:43 AM

Quote from: girmann on November 25, 2024, 07:07:43 PMYikes. We have your (almost) sister boat, Mola Mola, #1488. I don't have any advice, just sorry that you're going through this. Which hose was it? (I'm going to make it a priority to replace that one this year)

When you say "depreciated 80%", was that a rider on your insurance, or is that a standard feature of boat insurance that I haven't had the pleasure of running across yet? The last boat insurance company I had put a rider on the insurance that if the engine was a factor in the claim, then there would be no reimbursement for the engine. It was one of the most bizarre things I've read. I even asked "so if my engine dies and then I end up on the rocks, you will reimburse all damage, except for the engine?" "Yes" "Even if the engine is further damaged by being on the rocks?" "That's correct. if an engine issue is found to have participated in the claim in any way, the engine is not covered" I switched insurance companies because they started attaching riders.

Thanks. They explained that it is 80% because they are "wear items" and they are assumed to be original unless I can prove they were replaced. If I can demonstrate that, they will adjust depreciation accordingly.

I was aware of this, the Hull and structure and total value however are an agreed amount. Living in the keys, the insured loss I was most concerned with was a hurricane. I'll think differently from here on out. And I'll never leave a through Hull open again!

Noah · December 01, 2024, 11:18:53 AM

Good to hear that Geico (which is my insurance carrier too) DID NOT try to deny your claim due to it being a "lack of maintenance issue."

scgunner · December 02, 2024, 06:05:40 AM

Mark,

Wow, every boaters nightmare! That must have been one hell of a split hose. What happened to your automatic bilge pump?

Ron Hill · December 02, 2024, 03:44:17 PM

Guys : When I leave the boat for more than an overnight - I shut OFF all thru hulls!!

Not that difficult to do !!! A thought

Robert Mann · December 12, 2024, 10:27:02 AM

Mark, having worked in the marine and industrial engine business for 40 years, a few points regarding the engine and transmission. Time is of the essence. Ron is correct, any wiring that was submerged is toast and needs to be replaced. Anything that you leave will cause you endless hours of fault tracing later, (one silver lining is you can rewire the awful Westerbeke warning system and make it reliable). Most likely the starter and alternator will have suffered. If the water entered the engine and it has been left, there will be internal damage that needs to be investigated and repaired. If the water did not enter the engine I would get it started at the first opportunity to get oil circulating. Get the belt pullies cleaned up so any rust doesn't damage the belts. Make sure all controls operate properly (speed and stop) before starting it. My concern would be the transmission. I expect the salt water will have rusted the drive plate as the housing isn't sealed and water will have entered. Also, if it was submerged I believe there is a breather on the top that will have allowed water inside. Drain it and see if the fluid is contaminated with water. If so I would try to look inside with a borescope and look for rust. In any case I would fill it to the top with transmission fluid. I have seen engines submerged worse than this that were brought back successfully.

MarknCat · December 18, 2024, 12:29:31 PM

Quote from: scgunner on December 02, 2024, 06:05:40 AMMark,

Wow, every boaters nightmare! That must have been one hell of a split hose. What happened to your automatic bilge pump?

That's a great question, and I also have a high water alarm in the bilge. My assumption is it happened at night and once the water got over to the inverter (under starboard settee) the electrical system shorted.

MarknCat · December 18, 2024, 12:30:14 PM

Quote from: Ron Hill on December 02, 2024, 03:44:17 PMGuys : When I leave the boat for more than an overnight - I shut OFF all thru hulls!!

Not that difficult to do !!! A thought

Lesson learned, the hard way.

MarknCat · December 18, 2024, 12:34:36 PM

Quote from: Robert Mann on December 12, 2024, 10:27:02 AMMark, having worked in the marine and industrial engine business for 40 years, a few points regarding the engine and transmission. Time is of the essence. Ron is correct, any wiring that was submerged is toast and needs to be replaced. Anything that you leave will cause you endless hours of fault tracing later, (one silver lining is you can rewire the awful Westerbeke warning system and make it reliable). Most likely the starter and alternator will have suffered. If the water entered the engine and it has been left, there will be internal damage that needs to be investigated and repaired. If the water did not enter the engine I would get it started at the first opportunity to get oil circulating. Get the belt pullies cleaned up so any rust doesn't damage the belts. Make sure all controls operate properly (speed and stop) before starting it. My concern would be the transmission. I expect the salt water will have rusted the drive plate as the housing isn't sealed and water will have entered. Also, if it was submerged I believe there is a breather on the top that will have allowed water inside. Drain it and see if the fluid is contaminated with water. If so I would try to look inside with a borescope and look for rust. In any case I would fill it to the top with transmission fluid. I have seen engines submerged worse than this that were brought back successfully.

Yep, so it looks like they are going to total her. I'll buy her back and do all that you suggested. The good news is my yacht services guy gave her a very thorough fresh water rinse and pumped that out right away, but anything electrical or mechanical (hose clamps,etc) will be replaced. It doesn't appear water got into the engine, but we're going to pull it and clean and paint and replace all wear items. It will be a while before she's seaworthy again.

Noah · December 18, 2024, 01:12:45 PM

Sorry to hear it is deemed a total loss. If you are planning to buy it back from the insurer and fix it, I would recommend you research whether even when fixed, if it will impact ability for future insurance or resale. Perhaps some questions for your insurance agent are: if you keep and repair the boat, will they continue your insurance policy (or at least offer up a new one)? And, does its hull number get registered in some industry database as a totaled/salvaged vessel?