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[Catalina007]

 Hi.  1986 M25
We have never had to bleed this engine.  But now she wont start.  I assumed the separate electric Facet fuel pump basically made the engine
self bleeding.  But first start of the season  she ran for  30 seconds then stalled. Its trying to fire up again but wont. We have new primary and secondary filters, everything else seems ok.   Voltage, cranking speed, glow plugs ok.  Next steps?  Does it need bleeding? She always starts right up and purs like a kittren.  All the upgrades have been done.  Thanks   
   

[Noah]

If you have the round Facet fuel pump there is a filter inside it. Check that too.

[Jim Hardesty]

But first start of the season  she ran for  30 seconds then stalled.

Is the fuel shut off at the tank? 

We have new primary and secondary filters,

When the filters are changed, need to get air out of the lines.  ie bleed
Jim

[Catalina007]

ok, I started at the Facet pump and systematically bled all filters and junctions up to the bleeder knob.
I opened the knob (CCW) all the way. Nothing  came out.  No air and no fuel.
I unscrewed the cap holding the bleeder knob in place.  Basically removing the knob.  Turned on the electric pump and had good fuel flow.
So I have fuel getting to the injector pump.
Next step.. is fuel getting to the injectors?
Nope.
I loosend the injector nuts and cranked the engine.
Dry hole.
It was suggested I make sure the stop cable was fully retracted.  Even 1/8 inch coudl keep the engine from starting. 
The stop lever seems to be all the way against its stop (forward) so I think that is good.
Unfortunately things seem to be pointing to the injector pump. But it seems odd it would fail after just starting and running fine,
It always starts right up and did so the other day.  Ran for about a minute prior launching and we shut it off.
Now it wont start. 
Anything I am missing?
   





 
     

[Jim Hardesty]

Anything I am missing?

Sounds like you did your troubleshooting well.  The one thing that you didn't mention is your throttle cable and throttle lever.  Is that working correctly? 
Hope that helps,
Jim

With all the troubleshooting and cranking have you been draining the muffler?

[Catalina007]

Have not drained the muffler but we are on land and running out of a bucket, and then took the hose out of the bucket for further cranking. 
Will check that but it seems its a fuel delivery issue. Yep on cables.   

[Ron Hill]

007 : There is a short hose coming out of the engine mounted fuel filter - are you getting fuel out of that hose? 

If so, you just might have a clogged Injector Pump/lines to the injectors. Then you'll have remove that injection pump and look for that clog.  If all looks OK with the pump then blow thru the 1st fuel line backwards and see if it won't clear.  If clear then take it to a diesel truck repair and have the pump checked. 

Removal is not the difficult - I wrote a Mainsheet Tech note article on that very subject!!

A few thoughts

[Catalina007]

Thank you

007 : There is a short hose coming out of the engine mounted fuel filter - are you getting fuel out of that hose?  YES
I get fuel up to the burled knob

but how could a clog item make it past 3 filters!
Facet pump filter  ? micron
Racor filter 10 micron
Engine primary 3 micron

Ill look for your article
I dod find this today from a guy who removed his pump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWGgLEWiRoo



If so, you just might have a clogged Injector Pump/lines to the injectors. Then you'll have remove that injection pump and look for that clog.  If all looks OK with the pump then blow thru the 1st fuel line backwards and see if it won't clear.  If clear then take it to a diesel truck repair and have the pump checked.

Removal is not the difficult - I wrote a Mainsheet Tech note article on that very subject!!

A few thoughts
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Ron, Apache #788

[Catalina007]

Thank you for your help everyone.
After lots of bleeding we got her going.
Now... I hope we dont have a new air leak to track down.  

[Ron Hill]

007 : Any idea what happened??  A slug of water?  or BIG bubble of air??

Any thoughts ?

[Catalina007]

No idea where the air came from.  Hope it dosnt come back.
Funny when I had the first injector nut completely off  and cranked the engine to bleed, the engine began to start on two cylinders.
Earlier I had the bleeder valve completely open, completely closed, it dosnt do anything.  no air, no bubbles, no fuel. I took it off
completely and bled.

[Ron Hill]

oo7 : When you have the bleed Valve completely closed (key ON so the fuel pump is working) there should be NO fuel coming out the fuel return line - same if the engine is running key switch ON.

That's why I always let the bleed valve 1/4 turn ON so there was some bleed and I had a self bleeding system!!

A few thoughts 

[Catalina007]

yes but when I have the bleed knob open and the fuel pump on, there is no fuel coming out.. Its not bleeding. 

[Stu Jackson]

yes but when I have the bleed knob open and the fuel pump on, there is no fuel coming out.. Its not bleeding.

What fuel are you expecting "to come out?"  That's not how that assembly works.  No fuel "comes out," it simply bypasses the injector pump and goes back to the fuel tank via the return fuel hose.

[Catalina007]

My setup has only a fuel supply line going into part 33, the bleeder knob. As shown in the diagram
If that knob is open (CCW) and the fuel pump is running, nothing comes out of it.
I would expect to get either air, bubbly fuel, or fuel, or some combination of those.
 
I don't have a return line coming out of the bleeder assemply as shown in the photo 2  which is not my boat
 and what which I believe is what you are describing