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Author Topic: would it be a terrible cheat to ask about filling a void?  (Read 298 times)

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captran

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would it be a terrible cheat to ask about filling a void?
« on: May 18, 2022, 09:36:34 AM »

One of the things I will miss the most (besides my beloved Voyager) is the helpfulness and body of experience from the members here.  I find no such comparable group in the trawler world.  If a gap on a Catalina existed similar to picture, where water was wicking down the edge of a door and getting inside the boat, what would one use to fill that void?  (the water was enough to discolor the inside, but I'd like to seal it after drying it thoroughly before tending to the finish inside.)

I got to attend the survey on Voyager.  I sure wish the survey on the trawler was as positive as Voyager.  I am still mourning her sale.
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Randy Thies
Voyager  1997 #1345
was Florida, now Anacortes Wa

mregan

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Re: would it be a terrible cheat to ask about filling a void?
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2022, 10:27:47 AM »

I'd fill with some butyl gasket.
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KWKloeber

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Re: would it be a terrible cheat to ask about filling a void?
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2022, 11:03:15 AM »

Randy what's that above the gap?
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

captran

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Re: would it be a terrible cheat to ask about filling a void?
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2022, 01:53:30 PM »

Randy what's that above the gap?

I am so appreciative of the above replies.  It is the bottom of the aft end of the doors of the pilot house.  Survey found current moisture on port side, and old leak by dry on starboard side.  this is an old cropped pic of the general area.  Is butyl gasket the same as butyl tape?  I was wondering of cleaning it out after drying with a dental type pick and maybe injecting epoxy.  I just want to make sure it is dry and sealed going forward.
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Randy Thies
Voyager  1997 #1345
was Florida, now Anacortes Wa

Noah

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Re: would it be a terrible cheat to ask about filling a void?
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2022, 02:59:23 PM »

If there is wood under/in there; I would dig out any soft wood, then drill a grid of small pilot holes and flush area with a solution of borate powder and water, for fungus prevention—then dry it out (again) and inject in thin/penetrating epoxy. Then, top off with thickened epoxy and then matching paint. 
« Last Edit: May 18, 2022, 03:19:47 PM by Noah »
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KWKloeber

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Re: would it be a terrible cheat to ask about filling a void?
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2022, 03:18:13 PM »

Randy

What I mean is, above the hole looks like some sort of “gasket?” where the bottom has been torn off.  Am I hallucinating?
If its sort of a gasket it it just in a seam, or is something (door?) sealing against it?
The close up is too close to tell what’s there.
 
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

captran

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Re: would it be a terrible cheat to ask about filling a void?
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2022, 03:53:37 PM »

If there is wood under/in there; I would dig out any soft wood, then drill a grid of small pilot holes and flush area with a solution of borate powder and water, for fungus prevention—then dry it out (again) and inject in thin/penetrating epoxy. Then, top off with thickened epoxy and then matching paint.

Thank you.  I will do a better job of exploring the area the next time I am over to the boat.  Hadn't considered the borate or the pilot holes, or making it a multistep process.  Great advice.
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Randy Thies
Voyager  1997 #1345
was Florida, now Anacortes Wa

captran

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Re: would it be a terrible cheat to ask about filling a void?
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2022, 03:56:32 PM »

Randy

What I mean is, above the hole looks like some sort of “gasket?” where the bottom has been torn off.  Am I hallucinating?
If its sort of a gasket it it just in a seam, or is something (door?) sealing against it?
The close up is too close to tell what’s there.

I should have had my explorer tool with me, and hadn't even thought it might be the remnants of a gasket.  If it is a gasket, it was an utter failure.  Might have to see if I can remove the door completely to make it easier to get at.  Hope to get to it in early June.
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Randy Thies
Voyager  1997 #1345
was Florida, now Anacortes Wa

captran

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Re: would it be a terrible cheat to ask about filling a void?
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2022, 07:20:30 PM »

Got a much closer look, but the pic still does not show that much.  The gap was filled at some point with what is a firm grey material, actually pretty firm, but I think there must be gaps allowing water to come in.  am thinking about the drilling holes and filling with epoxy and having a smooth finish of the epoxy where it meets the surrounding fiberglass and wood "molding".  Also, what caulk would you use to put between the wood and the fiberglass.  Have a pic of the front side of the door showing that it,too, needs new caulk, and maybe best to pull off the old caulk and start fresh.  What do you all think?  while I'm at it, might just remove the door, as it looks like I should rebed the lower plastic that goes to the bottom of the deck, as water seems to gather there too.  do I use butyl tape to bed the screws?
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Randy Thies
Voyager  1997 #1345
was Florida, now Anacortes Wa

captran

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Re: would it be a terrible cheat to ask about filling a void?
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2022, 07:23:10 PM »

and the front edge to recaulk, and the bottom track to remove and reseal?
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Randy Thies
Voyager  1997 #1345
was Florida, now Anacortes Wa

KWKloeber

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Re: would it be a terrible cheat to ask about filling a void?
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2022, 09:13:57 AM »

Randy

Is this a sliding door or hinged?  Apologies, I’m still having a difficult time focusing in on exactly what’s going on.
I dont like recommending fixes unless i know exactly what im dealing with.

Is the door sliding past or hinging against the (gasket?) material or is if just filling a gap that is “stationary”?
IIWMB generally I’d want to get rid of bad material and replace it rather than gob something on top of bad. Unless its temporary until i can make a proper fix.
For under it i would want to get sealant UNDER where water can enter not just slather caulk against an edge. Possible using the sticky 2-side neoprene flashing tape used (or *should* use) when installing exterior doors and windows.  I think it comes in different widths and could be cut as narrow as needed. Tite-Seal is one brand.  Or possibly set it in butyl tape?  Or butyl caulking?
I didn’t see whete you said what boat it is?  Have you checked in in the Trawler Forum? There’s usually some good recommendations there.
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

captran

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Re: would it be a terrible cheat to ask about filling a void?
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2022, 12:25:22 PM »

Randy

Is this a sliding door or hinged?  Apologies, I’m still having a difficult time focusing in on exactly what’s going on.
I dont like recommending fixes unless i know exactly what im dealing with.

Is the door sliding past or hinging against the (gasket?) material or is if just filling a gap that is “stationary”?
IIWMB generally I’d want to get rid of bad material and replace it rather than gob something on top of bad. Unless its temporary until i can make a proper fix.
For under it i would want to get sealant UNDER where water can enter not just slather caulk against an edge. Possible using the sticky 2-side neoprene flashing tape used (or *should* use) when installing exterior doors and windows.  I think it comes in different widths and could be cut as narrow as needed. Tite-Seal is one brand.  Or possibly set it in butyl tape?  Or butyl caulking?
I didn’t see whete you said what boat it is?  Have you checked in in the Trawler Forum? There’s usually some good recommendations there.

I appreciate any and all ideas!  Last question is easiest.  I joined 2 trawler forums and one has a sub group of Helmsman.  After several weeks received one reply from a helmsman 38E future owner (his new helmsman is on order).  I was so used to the great response from C-34 owners.

It is a sliding door, and on the inside is a weak brushy type "seal", (if you can even call it that) that might help keep water out that is driving in from the side.  Picture # 4215cc shows both the bottom of the door on the slider as well as the wood door jam and the dark gap.  I tried to blow up and lighten the gap area that does seem to have some firm/harder substance filled in (#4214ccc  attached in this reply- you can also see the grey material as well as the brushlike seal inside).  The gap is at the bottom end of the wood and I suspect the water trickles down (you can see green algae along the edge of the wood in the pic).  The gap is about 1 1/2 inched by 5/8 inch wide. Seems like I need to remove the door and create enough space to fulling fill the entire gap. 

Pic #4223 shows the left side of the door since it was less in the shadow.    at the top of that pic  you can see a bit of a chalky caulk and here's a pic of a close up of that.  but toward the bottom of 4223cc you can see there is no caulk, so my thought was to go ahead and remove the old chalky caulk and put a small bead of caulk the entire length of bot side of the door "jamb".  the left side of the door jamb is a plastic piece, and the right side of the door jamb is that wood piece with a gap at the bottom.  What kind od caulk would be best?  A blow up of the left side caulk is here in pic # 4224cc.  I'm just trying to figure out the best caulk to seal the edges of both sides where any rain and washing water might get in.  and to me, if I am removing the door, why not go ahead and clean the areas around the bottom piece that goes on the deck and when remounting, what to use to reseal screws in case water is finding it's way under that plastic piece that serves as a guide for the bottom of the sliding door.  Hoping for guidance as I've not used Butyl anything nor 2 sided tape.  ((I miss my Catalina more every day.  The surveyor found only three screws that should be rebedded (2 different screws on 2 different rail stanchions and one anchor well screws.  all chainplates perfect, and no leaks anywhere, and hull and deck in great shape).)
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Randy Thies
Voyager  1997 #1345
was Florida, now Anacortes Wa

KWKloeber

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Re: would it be a terrible cheat to ask about filling a void?
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2022, 01:14:33 PM »

I’d think that answering which caulk to use someone has to put eyes on the situation. Is there a yard or marina person?

If the caulk needs to harden up I’d guess silicone would work. Other caulks generally stay soft and flexible.  If it’s deep then foam backer rod might be needed to fill the gap before caulking.
Or if its a gag between to immovable pieces epoxy and gel coat over.

If the screws need bedding I wouldn’t bed fasteners w/o first potting the holes. No matter what you do it’s likely that water will eventually get thru and potting keeps it from rotting the substrate.
https://pbase.com/mainecruising/sealing_the_deck

Look up Tite-Seal.
Here’s pictures of how butyl tape applies.
https://pbase.com/mainecruising/butyl_tape
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

captran

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Re: would it be a terrible cheat to ask about filling a void?
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2022, 04:18:26 PM »

I’d think that answering which caulk to use someone has to put eyes on the situation. Is there a yard or marina person?

If the caulk needs to harden up I’d guess silicone would work. Other caulks generally stay soft and flexible.  If it’s deep then foam backer rod might be needed to fill the gap before caulking.
Or if its a gag between to immovable pieces epoxy and gel coat over.

If the screws need bedding I wouldn’t bed fasteners w/o first potting the holes. No matter what you do it’s likely that water will eventually get thru and potting keeps it from rotting the substrate.
https://pbase.com/mainecruising/sealing_the_deck

Look up Tite-Seal.
Here’s pictures of how butyl tape applies.
https://pbase.com/mainecruising/butyl_tape

Thanks for the links.  At least it will help me learn what questions to ask and some terminology.  At my yard they don't do anything for free.  A few years ago we had them tighten a belt that wouldn't stay tight for me.  They ran the engine and ended up with 2 hours labor to check the entire engine while running.  to add insult to injury, when we got back in the spring there was some water in the bilge and I asked if maybe the worker didn't make sure the strainer was tight when they put the water plug in to run the engine on the hard.  He came out to the yard to tell me absolutely not, the water must be from another source.  There was an additional 15 minutes labor charge at 120 per hour for that 15 minute answer.  (which was very fishy since in all 21 years of ownership, that was the only time there was some water in the bilge.)  I guess there are no easy straight answers, even with a pic of the current deteriorated caulk in the super zoomed pic.  I've got some reading and studying to do.
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Randy Thies
Voyager  1997 #1345
was Florida, now Anacortes Wa
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