C34 CE certification questiom

[Noah]

Logo- the replacement hatch lens from CD is 1/2in!!  That should beef it up.
https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by-boat/catalina-350/hatches-ports/replacement-lenses/hatch-lens-lewmar-trapezoidal/?SearchResults=1

[LogoFreak]

Good to know! I'm getting my boat ready to go around Vancouver island, dip my toes into this offshore sailing thing lol

[KeelsonGraham]

On the bulkhead at the top of the steps Jim. The yacht was imported into the UK by a company and then sold to the PO. So I assume that, as per EU regs, they had to give it a CE categorisation. Class A is a bit optimistic for a Catalina 34.

Why do you say that? Have you seen the Beneteau's that get that certification? Fact is our C34's have thick hulls, keel stepped mast and shrouds that attach to the internal grid instead of the deck. Maybe not "blue water" cruisers but in my opinion more than capable of crossing an ocean. Although I agree that the forward hatch isn't up to spec.

That's an interesting question Logo. I'm impressed with the build quality of the Cat II and the robustness of the rig. Which is why I'm doing a transatlantic with it next year. But there are quite a few comments/threads on here that cast doubt on the Cat's blue water capabilities. It is after all, designed to be a coastal cruiser.

Most of the problems associated with a long crossing on this boat are to do with lack of storage space, difficulty fitting a below deck AP, and limited options for windvanes. None of these, admittedly, has anything to do with the CE rating.

I'm currently following a blog (MJambo) of a German chap whose now soloed the Atlantic both ways on nothing more than a 34ft Bavaria Holiday! The winches look like thimbles and the mast is a thin stick but he's done it nonetheless.

Keel stepped? My MkII isn't.

[LogoFreak]

My mk1.5 is keel stepped, Catalina went back to deck stepped in the mkII.

[Patches]

Antoni:

I went from Port Hardy down to Tofino in September 2016 on a friend's Newport 41.  Loved that trip, only wishing I could have had another 3 weeks or so.  So much wildlife, and nobody there.  You'll get bear warnings/sitings from the locals at every stop with a dock.  Few current cruising guides when we were there.  We found fuel at a Christian camp/mission in Esperanza which was a welcome surprise,  but almost everything was already closed for the season.

I think it is a good preview of ocean sailing, especially coming around Cape Scott.  I agree with you that our C34's can sail offshore with the proper planning and preparation.  Every trip to the boat show makes me appreciate my boat all the more.

You'll love that trip, but be ready for fog rolling in quick.

Patches

[Stu Jackson]

.....

Every trip to the boat show makes me appreciate my boat all the more.

......

I've felt like that since 1999, and we bought our boat in 1998.  I know, what took me so long?!?
Nigel Calder's Cruising Handbook spends a few chapters on boat layout the C34 checks off more boxes than most any other boat of her size I've ever been on.

[KeelsonGraham]

I've felt like that since 1999, and we bought our boat in 1998.  I know, what took me so long?!?
Nigel Calder's Cruising Handbook spends a few chapters on boat layout the C34 checks off more boxes than most any other boat of her size I've ever been on.
[/quote]

Yep, agreed. She's light which worried me a bit a first, but now I'm thinking that some of that lightness is due to not having acres of teak trim, rather than a light hull.

Satcom with grib files helps to take out some of the risk of big crossings. That said, if I had the money I'd prefer to do it in a 40ft Hallberg Rassy.

[senorquill]

On the bulkhead at the top of the steps Jim. The yacht was imported into the UK by a company and then sold to the PO. So I assume that, as per EU regs, they had to give it a CE categorisation. Class A is a bit optimistic for a Catalina 34.

Why do you say that? Have you seen the Beneteau's that get that certification? Fact is our C34's have thick hulls, keel stepped mast and shrouds that attach to the internal grid instead of the deck. Maybe not "blue water" cruisers but in my opinion more than capable of crossing an ocean. Although I agree that the forward hatch isn't up to spec.

That's an interesting question Logo. I'm impressed with the build quality of the Cat II and the robustness of the rig. Which is why I'm doing a transatlantic with it next year. But there are quite a few comments/threads on here that cast doubt on the Cat's blue water capabilities. It is after all, designed to be a coastal cruiser.

Most of the problems associated with a long crossing on this boat are to do with lack of storage space, difficulty fitting a below deck AP, and limited options for windvanes. None of these, admittedly, has anything to do with the CE rating.

I'm currently following a blog (MJambo) of a German chap whose now soloed the Atlantic both ways on nothing more than a 34ft Bavaria Holiday! The winches look like thimbles and the mast is a thin stick but he's done it nonetheless.

Keel stepped? My MkII isn't.

I've always wondered why some people think a C34 can't sail on the ocean or it is unsafe to do so. I only sail on the ocean with mine and my boat hasn't fallen apart. I live on the panhandle of Florida and we get hit by hurricanes every year, the marina makes you leave the dock and anchor in the bay. Unless the anchor pulls all the boats are fine. I've seen sails get shredded from non stop 50 knot winds, boats slamming against the piers, hit by fallen trees, other boats, ect..., at the end 99% of the boats are fine. Ovbislouy not same as the ocean but these same boat have been getting hit by hurricanes for 30+ years and they still float.  Sailboats get pushed onto land by storm surge, and people patch them up and put them back in the water. Even the boats I see on the shore or the roads are still not destroyed, but they people collect the insurance and don't waste the time to fix them. Boats are tough.

Some people at my marina are literally so scare of the ocean they just do circles in bay for the 10 or so years they have their sailboats. They believe Catalinas shouldn't go in the open ocean and if they do, they wait for absolute perfect weather, to the point where they are forced to motor and they do a short jump. I don't get it. Sailing on the ocean is far better than sailing in a bay and safer if you ask me. You really can't hit thing or ground out.

The attached picture is a Podcast interview of Bob Perry and he discusses this issue; The Strength of Coastal Cruisers (CC) vs Blue Water. It's a great podcast on the design and strength of Coastal Cruisers, he says it applies to boat designers of that time and in general. He basically laughs at the thought of a CC not being capable of going into the ocean. (To paraphrase) He says that since by name, Coastal Cruiser, meaning in the Ocean "hence coast", are built to withstand anything the Ocean can throw at it, since they are selling that boat for people to sail in the ocean.  He says they are built for the most part just as strong as a BW sailboat. The difference is it purpose. The cock pit is small, life lines higher, heavier for a smoother ride, ect... Meant for extended ocean crosses, year after year, for 30+ years of beatings. This does not mean your Catalina 34 will fall apart in 20' seas, they don't, people sail them in those conditions and nothing breaks. The C34 is a perfect boat for the Bahamas, which is basically the open ocean the entire time you are island hopping, crossing the gulf stream, ect... Take you C34 into the ocean and realize if you fall off the side the consequences are same as a BW sailboat since a Pacific Seacraft 34 won't turn around and pick you up. Ever thing is a risk.

I'm not an expert, but Bob Perry certainly is, so I recommend you here it from him.

[Stu Jackson]

I don't disagree with the contention that a C34 could, I say could, sail across an ocean.  I'll leave out the usual bafflegab about rowboats and KonTiki! 

Steve Dolling, aka waterdog, sailed his C34 from Vancouver BC down to Mexico and his trip reports are illuminating and informational.  One takeaway I remember is the size of the scupper drains on a Mark I, of course, Mark 1 1/2 & IIs don't have that issue.

The only other issue I must mention are the portlights, both fixed and opening, Beckson or Lewmar, in addition to the previously mentioned forward hatch (although mine is solid, it simply ain't that hefty).  As far a being able to sustain heavy water damage, they simply aren't made for that.  Otherwise, the boat's just fine.

[Holger Dieske]

First of all thanks to Graham for the picture of the CE plaque.

I guess I unwittingly started a discussion. I have been sailing my ship from the southern Adriatic to northern Italy for the last 6 days. At the end from Croatia to Italy I had quite strong Bora (cold strong wind blowing from NE over the Balkan massif out to sea) up to 35 kn and was impressed by my ship. It was the first trip with it.

yes, the CE certification class A means high seas. but it's just checking the minimum properties that were once defined in the EU. you don't have to freak out about it.

I would use it to cross the Atlantic from Gibraltar to the Caribbean without hesitation. you only do it at a certain time. I've only read American forums since I've had an American ship. I notice that in your discussions, long-haul boats often only start with Island Packet & Co from 40 ft +. Many Europeans drive around the world in old 35ft. they just take the barefoot route, as we call it here. So not Cape Horn or the screaming 40s. Friends of mine are currently transatlantic with an old 31 and the particularly (positively) crazy ones are the French. they drive off with it. what they have is often not finished yet :) Many of us Germans are a bit "equipment fetishists" :)
and you Americans, I suppose, prefer big, heavily built things.

Anyway I believe. with my ship I can go anywhere with a few modifications if I pay attention to the weather and the right season and if I'm not careless. anyway everywhere. where there is no pack ice. But it's too cold for me anyway. :)

Holger

[KeelsonGraham]

Wow! The Adriatic in winter! Kudos to you Holger. Is there anything you're planning change after that experience?

[Holger Dieske]

... Graham - really just little things.

Stretch lines port and starboard from fore to aft to attach a lifeline. maybe a 3rd reef in the mainsail (my PO installed a longer boom and the mainsail is bigger than the original).

And, I need a replacement for something: On the last day with 35kn wind and 2-3m waves I suddenly heard a strange noise for about 20 seconds. But I couldn't find out what was going on and it made me very nervous. The ship slowed down (before between 6 and 7 knots it went down to 4 knots) and when I wanted to hear a tack the bow didn't go through the wind. I had no real oar effect and thought oh wtf, I didn't lose the oar blade, did I?! But after a while everything went back to normal. I took turns at the helm with my buddy and looked ahead. WTF where's my anchor?
It was secured with a bolt on the bowsprit. Since the boat stomped heavily into the waves, it probably shook itself loose and hung down with a 50 meter chain at full speed. That was the reason for the strange behavior of the boat. At some point the piece of line with which I secured the end of the chain in the anchor locker and the anchor with chain went to depth. So I sunk 1000 euros to the bottom of the Adriatic Sea
The good thing is that I now know what was going on and of course that the anchor/chain hanging underwater did not damage the boat hull.

I'll ask a few more technical questions in the near future...

many greetings to all   (and sorry for my bad english)
Holger

[KeelsonGraham]

That's interesting Holger. Recently, on an ARC Atlantic podcast, I asked whether it's best to stow the anchor, to avoid just that thing happening. Their answer was that it's not. But a 15-20kg mass bouncing around on the bow seems to be a recipe for trouble.

[Holger Dieske]

...
I should have secured it better (additionally with a short piece of line). I will probably always do this with my new Rocna in the future. :)

Holger

[Jim Hardesty]

should have secured it better (additionally with a short piece of line). I will probably always do this with my new Rocna in the future. :)

That's what I do.  A 3/8 line a few feet long, loop on one end that I pass thru the anchor shackle then cleat.   I call it catting the anchor, don't know if that's correct because it's not under a cathead.
Jim