Weeping Keel Bolt - Safety Issue or Maintenance Issue?

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KeelsonGraham


Hi all,

I've been aware of a slightly wet bilge ever since I bought my Cat Mk II last August. I had assumed it was water from a dripping stern gland - at least that's what the surveyor told me it was.

Now, I'm certain that there is a small weep from the port side aft bolt. About 2 pints per month.

There's not the slightest sign of cracking, or a Catalina smile on the hull keel interface.

I'm assuming therefore that this isn't an immediate safety issue. Is that correct?

I haven't yet checked the torque settings. - still looking for an extra long socket.
2006 Catalina 34 Mk II. Hull No:1752. Engine: M35 BC.

waughoo

I would torque them all and monitor.  I just bought an impact socket and cut it in two and then had a pipe welded in to make the "deep" part.  It doesnt look pretty but it is certainly functional.
Alex - Seattle, WA
91 mk1.5 #1120
Std rig w/wing keel
Universal M35
Belafonte

Noah

If/when you torque the bolts, you will probably need a cheater bar (piece of pipe) to slide over your torque wrench to give you more leverage. When I went to torque mine last October, without one, I discovered just how old and weak I have become! 107lbs. sounds easy, but it wasn't for me... :cry4`
1990 hull #1014, San Diego, CA,  Fin Keel,
Standard Rig

Jim Hardesty

Quotestill looking for an extra long socket

I also cut a socket and welded a pipe extension.  If you add your location to your signature, possibly someone near may be willing to loan you one.
Jim
Jim Hardesty
2001 MKII hull #1570 M35BC  "Shamrock"
sailing Lake Erie
from Commodore Perry Yacht Club
Erie, PA

ChrisOB

I need to finally get to this as well, and check the keel stub, rusty washers
1986 MK1 Tall rig/Fin Keel #247

Noah

Rusty washer are "probably" due to the washer being covered or partially covered in gelcoat, causing oxygen starvation. Try chipping away gelcoat in bilge to reveal all of the washers then treat with a rust remover (such as Spotless Stainless or citric acid). This could solve the rust/bleed problem in the bilge, but not a leaking keel bolt.
1990 hull #1014, San Diego, CA,  Fin Keel,
Standard Rig

KeelsonGraham

Quote from: Noah on February 04, 2022, 08:22:11 AM
If/when you torque the bolts, you will probably need a cheater bar (piece of pipe) to slide over your torque wrench to give you more leverage. When I went to torque mine last October, without one, I discovered just how old and weak I have become! 107lbs. sounds easy, but it wasn't for me... :cry4`

Won't this screw up the 'ft' part of the ft lb torque measurement???
2006 Catalina 34 Mk II. Hull No:1752. Engine: M35 BC.

Jim Hardesty

QuoteWon't this screw up the 'ft' part of the ft lb torque measurement???

Not if the extension is on/over the handle.  A dozen years ago and some shoulder surgery 107 ft lb was easy enough.  Now I too need a cheater. 
Jim
Jim Hardesty
2001 MKII hull #1570 M35BC  "Shamrock"
sailing Lake Erie
from Commodore Perry Yacht Club
Erie, PA

Jon W

Technically using a basic torque formula, the length of the wrench will affect the amount of torque produced at the nut if you apply the same force at the end of each. However the wrench will still click, or the pointer will still point at the set value of the wrench. You just apply less force to the end of the extended wrench (which is why you're using it in the first place). Be careful not to damage your wrench with the pipe, and be careful not to overdrive the torque you're after because of the cheater bar/pipe.
Jon W.
s/v Della Jean
Hull #493, 1987 MK 1, M25XP, 35# Mantus, Std Rig
San Diego, Ca

Ron Hill

#9
Keelson : You need to remove that nut on the leaking keel bolt, replace (or cleanup) the corroded washer,/s.  I'd add some new caulk (3M5200) and retorque it and the rest of the keel bolt nuts.

With that said - you really need to be on the hard (out of the water) with the keel on the ground and the weight of the hull setting on top of the keel!!  Then you can retorque all the nuts!!

A few thoughts
Ron, Apache #788

Noah

Just to clarify Ron's comment (that confused me anyway): You DO NOT want to put 5200 (or any caulking) around the keel bolt and/or washer INSIDE the boat! Caulking should only be done on the OUTSIDE between THE lead and the hull—and this can only be done with the boat out of the water.
1990 hull #1014, San Diego, CA,  Fin Keel,
Standard Rig

KWKloeber

#11
Quote from: Noah on February 07, 2022, 03:14:24 PM
Just to clarify Ron's comment (that confused me anyway): You DO NOT want to put 5200 (or any caulking) around the keel bolt and/or washer INSIDE the boat! Caulking should only be done on the OUTSIDE between THE lead and the hull—and this can only be done with the boat out of the water.


I disagree (i.e., Ron is spot-on about sealing inside the bilge.) But it doesn't pertain to the source of the leak at hand.

Someone, please, explain how, with no crack, no smile, no pathway for seawater to get to the keel bolt (via a keel joint that is 100% intact) water can make its way up and into the bilge?
And then, how torquing the nuts is a remedy when there is no pathway for water to get to the bilge?

i.e., if
Quote
There's not the slightest sign of cracking, or a Catalina smile on the hull keel interface.
= true;
then the water is coming from another source also = true.


Perhaps......  water is making its way running down the hull from aft, and appears to be entering from around the keel nut/water?
This begs the question; What evidence/observation leads KG to believe that the keel bolt is the source (and not the stuffing box)?

Re: Ron's comment - One wants a positive seal around each bolt (underneath each washer) to prevent bilge water from wicking down via the keel bolt thread and attacking the keel joint bedding (or down to the wood for those who have that in the keel stub.)
Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Noah

Ken —if you remove the bolts entirely or partially, yes. Otherwise, if you just seal down the washer and nut in the bilge from inside with 5200–good luck on torquing them again once the boat is on the hard.
1990 hull #1014, San Diego, CA,  Fin Keel,
Standard Rig

KWKloeber

Noah

Whether one does it on the hard or in the water isn't the key.  This was the point:
You DO NOT want to put 5200 (or any caulking) around the keel bolt and/or washer INSIDE the boat! Caulking should only be done on the OUTSIDE

I'm confused -- are you now saying that is correct or incorrect?  IMO, the statement is incorrect.

To the other point (when) - Removing/torquing only one nut (which was Ron's suggestion) will make zero difference whether the boat is on the hard or in the water.
Ron suggested that KG remove/seal/torque only one (and in fact recommended against doing the others while in the water.)

i.e., Both Ron's (a) recommendation re: the one nut, and (b) his caution re: the other nuts, were correct (IMO.)

Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Noah

I am just saying that slathering 5200 on the nut while in the water is not the way I would do it.
1990 hull #1014, San Diego, CA,  Fin Keel,
Standard Rig