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Author Topic: GFI not installed  (Read 867 times)

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eisjeff

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GFI not installed
« on: January 20, 2022, 11:38:16 AM »

My 1996 doesn't have a GFI on the AC system. Previous owner removed GFI as it kept going off. I have checked the entire AC system, all appears to be properly wired and ground. Yet when I put the GFI back in, it goes off.

Suggestions?
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Noah

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Re: GFI not installed
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2022, 12:06:51 PM »

Try a new GFI? They do go bad.
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KWKloeber

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Re: GFI not installed
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2022, 12:53:47 PM »

EIS

Presuming you tried a new GFCI and it trips, then you have leakage somewhere.  :cry4`
From hot to ground (or neutral to ground -  i.e., the current is not returning back via the neutral leg.) The GFCI measures the current in the hot leg and neutral leg, and trips if they are not equal (within tolerance.)

So you could systematically disconnect/remove receptacles (or whatever else is) on the circuit until she no longer trips.  Of course, have nothing plugged in so you eliminate an equipment issue.  When you find what caused it to trip, replace it.  (it could be a wiring issue, not just a faulty receptacle.)
Of course - work on the receptacles with the shore power disconnected.  :shock: :shock:

Another way is to check the entire circuit as-is for leakage -- from the GFCI location on.  You should have "zero" continuity between the hot/neutral and neutral/ground with everything unplugged, but you need a very sensitive (and accurate) meter.  If my math is correct, the resistance between legs must be greater than 0.0002 ohms otherwise the CFCI can trip. 
Or alternately could measure the current traveling down the hot leg with nothing plugged in.  It should be less than 4 milliamp, otherwise, the GFCI can trip.
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
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Ron Hill

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Re: GFI not installed
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2022, 03:10:11 PM »

eis : If a GFIC "pops" --- It is TRYING to tell tell you something!!!!!!    :shock:

A thought
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eisjeff

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Re: GFI not installed
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2022, 05:47:21 PM »

I have replaced the GFI. taken everything off the system after the GFI, checked all the other connections and wires and still when something is plugged into the GFI it pops. There in lies the issue. I know it iw trying to tell me something but what I can't figure out.
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KWKloeber

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Re: GFI not installed
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2022, 07:18:14 PM »

It is a new GFCI?

What are you plugging in?

What is the resistance from hot to ground and neutral to ground
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Ted Pounds

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Re: GFI not installed
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2022, 05:34:22 AM »

I had a GFI panel breaker at home that kept tripping.   After a lot of trouble shooting discovered it was a NEUTRAL fault.   The neutral was grounded before the return to the panel.  Not sure if this helps, but I thought I’d throw it out there…
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Jim Hardesty

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Re: GFI not installed
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2022, 06:33:11 AM »

Here is my GFI story.  When I first got Shamrock had rare intermittent GFI trips.  Did the usual troubleshooting but didn't find anything amiss.  Just lived with it.  Sometime later was doing another project and discovered a bad crimp, wire pulled out, on the neutral ring connector to a receptacle.  Checked all the receptacles and found one other bad crimp.  Both were from factory.  Haven't had a GFI trip since.  Thats my GFI story.
I'm no electric expert but was thinking could GFI tripping come from dockside plug, shore power cord, or someplace upstream from the GFI?  Or possibly something wired into the boats AC not thru the outlets?
Jim
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Jim Hardesty
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KWKloeber

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Re: GFI not installed
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2022, 07:11:15 AM »

Jim,

In a word, “Yes.”
Virtually anywhere there’s a leakage that unbalances the current in the hot leg vs the neutral leg could cause a trip. They are very touchy animals.  And it gets worse trying to tie it down if the leakage point is intermittent.  Checking the resistance in the whole loop can confirm IF there’s a fault (if you happen to hit the intermittent event) but not its LOCATION.   
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Ron Hill

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Re: GFI not installed
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2022, 02:51:30 PM »

Guys : You only have 5 outlets with the GFI being one of them ( nav table, V berth, aft cabin, head and galley).  I'd get rid of the ring connectors and hard wire directly to the 115V outlet (just like your home wiring).  As I recall?? the MK I C34s are wired like that!?!

A thought.
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KWKloeber

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Re: GFI not installed
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2022, 04:09:01 PM »

As far as any information I’ve seen, household receptacles are designed and approved for ONLY solid wire, not stranded.

YBYC, but just let your insurance carrier know so it can be noted.  If there’s a fire, doing it not to code shouldn’t affect everyone else’s premium.
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Noah

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Re: GFI not installed
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2022, 04:19:26 PM »

How about using a ferrule on the stranded wire?
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1990 hull #1014, San Diego, CA,  Fin Keel,
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KWKloeber

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Re: GFI not installed
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2022, 09:21:14 PM »

How would one ‘turn’ a ferrule’d wire end around a screw? 
The wire ends need to encircle the screw and be pinched closed.

Why not just a properly crimped terminal?
I used heat shrink rings, but a reasonable alternative would be ‘captive’ forks or the half-ring terminals (removing and replacing the receptacle screws to get full-ring terminals on there can be a PITA.)
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Noah

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Re: GFI not installed
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2022, 09:04:26 AM »

Some GFIs have holes to push the wire ends into and then you tighten down the clamp screw. That is why I suggested a ferrule.
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1990 hull #1014, San Diego, CA,  Fin Keel,
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KWKloeber

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Re: GFI not installed
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2022, 01:19:00 PM »

Understood, but would a 12-ga wire w/ a ferrule fit thu a hole sized for a 12-ga wire (besides it also wouldn't be approved so same insurance notification)?

I know there's different configurations, like push-in backs (can be used only w/ solid conductors) and Shamrock's issue below was with terminals on two receptacles, not the GFCI itself.

Maybe I'm dense but I just don't see the benefit of a workaround -- if there were bad terminal wire crimps on the shore power cable at the distribution panel, or bad butt crimps on a bilge pump -- find a workaround or simply re-do them w/ proper electrical crimps?  I guess it's just a YBYC thing.
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain
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