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Author Topic: Headliner question  (Read 2984 times)

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Analgesic

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Headliner question
« on: August 01, 2021, 09:03:30 AM »

On our recent cruise, my wife and I noted subtle mold spots on the headliner so started washing with our dilute bleach.  To my surprise, when I wiped just aft and starboard of the hatch over the salon table, a soft spot was obvious, maybe 12 x 12",  and when pressed, air could be heard squeezing out from a gap in the nearby hatch frame.  The hatch is not leaking water from above.  I don't know anything about the headliner but hope it is just a cosmetic layer with some loose adhesive delaminating after decades (I have a 1988 Mk I).  Does this sound like anything more serious that needs troubleshooting? 
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Brian McPhillips  1988 #584  M25XP

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Re: Headliner question
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2021, 11:51:08 AM »

Brian if I correctly picture what you’re describing and the source, there was a series of posts (past year?) that cover getting into (from the removed hatch) and fixing the rot of the core.  Do a search trying this search box.
https://c34.org/search_gcse/?q=

PS:here
https://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,10124.msg79284.html#msg79284
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Ron Hill

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Re: Headliner question
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2021, 02:46:02 PM »

Brian : I hate to tell you, but that you have a deck void in that overhead liner.  I installed a 4" solar vent in the same area that your are questioning.  My cut out was a thick piece of plywood.  My vent was installed halfway between the aft of the Vberth hatch and the inside bulkhead to the salon.

The only thing that I can tell you is that you need to fill that void with epoxy!!   Let me think about the "how to" repair!!

A few thoughts



« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 03:10:15 PM by Ron Hill »
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Ron, Apache #788

Robert Mann

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Re: Headliner question
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2021, 05:04:03 PM »

Brian, pull the trim ring from the main hatch and see if the core is damaged due to a leak around the hatch, or down the screws that hold it in place.  Probe it with a stiff wire and see what you find.  the leak may or may not show up inside the boat, but the water travels in the core and rots it.  Mine needed the balsa core replaced on the forward port side due to this.  Its not a hard repair, just messy and time consuming as the core needs to be dug out and then dried before replacing it with new material and pumping epoxy in.
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Stu Jackson

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Re: Headliner question
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2021, 08:52:51 PM »

Brian, regardless of where it is, you may learn a lot by doing a simple search on the word "void."  I just did, and there's lots right up your alley.  Good luck.
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Ron Hill

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Re: Headliner question
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2021, 01:43:26 PM »

Brian : It sounds like your have a void between the plywood core and the inside overhead liner.  Most voids in C34s have had are in the core itself or between the deck gelcoat/fiberglass and the core.  I believe that yours being on the inside will be easier to fix!!

Here is a suggestion - Drill a small hole  in the center (high side) of your "void".  You said that you can push up on the liner.  So make something (2x4?) that you an wedge in and hold up that liner.  Mix up some West System and force it into the void.  Wedge the overhead liner up and put a SS screw with SS finishing washer in to the hole and screw it in.  (the plywood core is approx 1" thick).
That will fill the hole and somewhat hold the liner up touching the plywood core.  Leave the wedge in place for 24 hrs to make sure the West has completely cured.  At the beginning of the fix open your fwd hatch and make sure that the West has started to come out where the air was coming out.  Make sure you mix the West so it has a couple of hour cure so it can flow thru the entire void.

Think about my recommendation and adjust with your thoughts/ideas!!

A few thoughts
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Ron, Apache #788

Analgesic

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Re: Headliner question
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2021, 01:56:33 PM »

Thanks to everyone, I now have some direction.  Ron's solution certainly sounds simpler, the difference between a catheter and angioplasty vs. open heart surgery and a heart transplant in my world!  I'll dive in this coming weekend and hopefully not find extensive cancer...
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Brian McPhillips  1988 #584  M25XP

Ron Hill

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Re: Headliner question
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2021, 02:18:15 PM »

Brian : At one time, there was an epoxy call "Gluevit" (SP?).  it was a thin epoxy made to flow into cracks.  You might want to check it out?

A thought



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Ron, Apache #788

KWKloeber

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Re: Headliner question
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2021, 04:20:52 PM »

There are a few different penetrating epoxy products - I think West and Mas have penetrating resins.  "GitRot" is another.

Mas epoxy, which I use, advertises that its (normal) resin has a surfactant to flow easier.

However, here's West's take on penetrating resins that was in Epoxyworks issue #45
https://www.epoxyworks.com/index.php/penetrating-epoxy-legend-myth/

I submit that one key is -- has the liner dropped (probably due to an adhesion issue?) or is it in place with a void above it (probably due to core rot?)
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Ron Hill

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Re: Headliner question
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2021, 03:20:42 PM »

Brian : I agree with Ken and my "fix" assumes there is no core rot and the delamination is not from a water leak. 

You might want to run a moisture meter over that void area and make sure it a dry.  Because epoxy will NOT adhere to a wet surface!!

A few thoughts
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Ron, Apache #788

Analgesic

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Re: Headliner question
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2021, 04:10:25 PM »

So, I got to the boat yesterday  after some near Biblical rains last week, maybe 2-3" in 36 hours.  The good news (maybe) is that there was not a huge pool of water waiting to squirt out by the hatch, just the usual air puff when the headliner was pressed.  I hope that's good news.  Right now my plan is to remove the hatch from above when I get the time and look for rot at the edge where the air comes out and if none, I'll try the Ron fix with my fingers crossed.  If I find rot, it will be a lot of rot and I'll have a busy Fall!
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Brian McPhillips  1988 #584  M25XP
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