Water pressure question

David Discenza · July 26, 2021, 11:33:44 AM

I have noticed that, if I leave the switch on for the fresh water system, I will hear it run for a few seconds to repressurize the system every 20 minutes or so. Is this normal for the system, or do I have a leak somewhere? I haven't noticed any water leaks. The bilge isn't running every so often (aside from the condensate from the air conditioner).

KWKloeber · July 26, 2021, 12:24:14 PM

No thats abnormal.
Do a search on here - water pump issues were discussed not TOO long ago.
There's also a pump troubleshooting guide on the wiki site.

A slow drip somewhere or a bad check valve or diaphragm issue might be the cause .....depending.

Ron Hill · July 26, 2021, 02:14:46 PM

David : YUP, You've got a drip somewhere. Take a paper towel and wipe each connection until you find the "leaker"!!

A thought

Stu Jackson · July 26, 2021, 02:48:49 PM

It may not be at a connection at all. As I've noted in most of the previous posts on this same subject, my leak was in the hose between the galley sink and the head sink, where the hoses bent around.

Sure, check all the connections first, including the many under the galley sink, but don't think it "has to be" the connections.

Good luck.

Jon W · July 26, 2021, 04:00:00 PM

Don't forget to check the fresh water hose from the pump to the water heater. That's where I had problems. I finally gave up, and changed fresh water hoses connecting to the water heater and/or carrying hot water to PEX. No problems since.

David Discenza · July 27, 2021, 04:50:27 AM

Thanks for the responses. So, it looks like I have the fun of hunting down a leak ahead of me. Thanks for replying.

Jon W, did you replace all your water lines with Pex?

Noah · July 27, 2021, 08:38:05 AM

One issue I (and others) have had with clear reenforced "regular" waterline hose is when the hose connected to the water heater heats up it becomes more flexible and can leak at the hose clamp. Switching to PEX is in my future too. I just hate working in tight knuckle-busting places.

Jon W · July 27, 2021, 02:31:08 PM

Red PEX on the hot water lines, and Shields clear with a red/blue stripe on the cold water side. No leaks on hot or cold side since.

David Discenza · August 02, 2021, 04:45:58 AM

Well, I know where the leak isn't. It isn't at any of the connections in the galley area including the hot water heater. My next task will be to inspect the lines that go to the hand shower in the stern and the rear water tank. That means taking apart the stern berth. Oh well...all my problems are first world problems.

Jim Hardesty · August 02, 2021, 06:06:48 AM

QuoteMy next task will be to inspect the lines that go to the hand shower in the stern and the rear water tank.

David,
Remember the leak will be in the pressurized plumbing, ie after the pump. So the water tank and line to the pump shouldn't be a consideration. Also most of fittings for the cockpit shower should be accessible from the aft cockpit lockers. Not sure where the feed is but think it's teed off from under the sink in the head.
I've not done this troubleshooting for the pump check valve but think that if the system get pressurized (just after the pump cycles) then shut off the supply, if the pressure stays ie the pump doesn't cycle, the check valve is defective. I would start by timing how long between the pump cycles.
Hope this helps,
Jim

David Discenza · August 02, 2021, 06:40:31 AM

Quote from: Jim Hardesty on August 02, 2021, 06:06:48 AM
QuoteMy next task will be to inspect the lines that go to the hand shower in the stern and the rear water tank.

David,
Remember the leak will be in the pressurized plumbing, ie after the pump. So the water tank and line to the pump shouldn't be a consideration. Also most of fittings for the cockpit shower should be accessible from the aft cockpit lockers. Not sure where the feed is but think it's teed off from under the sink in the head.
I've not done this troubleshooting for the pump check valve but think that if the system get pressurized (just after the pump cycles) then shut off the supply, if the pressure stays ie the pump doesn't cycle, the check valve is defective. I would start by timing how long between the pump cycles.
Hope this helps,
Jim

Jim,
Thanks for your thoughts on this problem. I'm not sure I'm following you. Are you telling me to shut off the supply to the pump from the tanks and then see if the pump cycles? Assuming that the pump does cycle, couldn't it be due to a leak in the system? The ony way I can think of proving the problem is in the pump is to swap out the pump.

KWKloeber · August 02, 2021, 10:32:14 AM

David

You need to troubleshoot to determine (or at least narrow down) the cause to which part of the system and then the location.
If my car engine doesn't start because it isn't getting fuel, I don't crawl underneath, and search out and remove the fuel supply and return lines to check for something plugging them -- I check the fuel gauge first. Similarly, if I'm not getting water at the head, I don't buy and install a new pump -- I check the water level in the tank to rule that out immediately.
Troubleshoot to eliminate sections of the system that are (or are not) causing the pump to cycle. IIWMB, I would have taken a quick look at the spots where I would easily see the evidence of a water leak. Then isolate portions to determine what section of the boat/plumbing is (or is not) causing the cycling.

As I said -- the pump itself can cause it so IIWMB I would check that after my general look-see (to easily eliminate it as a cause,) rather than tear apart my boat trying to inspect each foot of hose and every fitting. Plug the pressure side at the nearest tee or elbow or fixture (I don't know how the C34 is plumbed after the pump.) Or remove the pressure hose at the pump and put on a short length of hose and plug it.
Or you might try to pinch off the pressure side hose with a straight jaw vice grip tightly enough (protect it from damage from the teeth) to tell if it reduces (or eliminates) the cycling (indicating a possible leak downstream) or stays the same (a faulty pump microswitch, diaphgram, or check valve.) Use pieces of old hose, or the heavy red gasket rubber from an auto parts, or even two strips of metal or wood under a vice grip to to tightly pinch it off. Or pinch together two screwdriver shanks if you have nothing else. Narrow down/eliminate large sections that cause (or don't affect) the cycling.

rmjohns · August 02, 2021, 11:30:21 AM

Yep, I went through this a few months ago. Pump was cycling every so many seconds. I couldn't find any leaks that justified the pump cycling as often as it did, the bilge stayed dry. It turned out to be the pump itself that wasn't holding pressure. Don't know if there was dirt holding open the internal check .valve/diaphram(?) but since the pump was already pretty old, I just replaced it with a new one.

Rob

David Discenza · August 02, 2021, 01:12:48 PM

Quote from: KWKloeber on August 02, 2021, 10:32:14 AM
David

You need to troubleshoot to determine (or at least narrow down) the cause to which part of the system and then the location.
If my car engine doesn't start because it isn't getting fuel, I don't crawl underneath, and search out and remove the fuel supply and return lines to check for something plugging them -- I check the fuel gauge first. Similarly, if I'm not getting water at the head, I don't buy and install a new pump -- I check the water level in the tank to rule that out immediately.
Troubleshoot to eliminate sections of the system that are (or are not) causing the pump to cycle. IIWMB, I would have taken a quick look at the spots where I would easily see the evidence of a water leak. Then isolate portions to determine what section of the boat/plumbing is (or is not) causing the cycling.

As I said -- the pump itself can cause it so IIWMB I would check that after my general look-see (to easily eliminate it as a cause,) rather than tear apart my boat trying to inspect each foot of hose and every fitting. Plug the pressure side at the nearest tee or elbow or fixture (I don't know how the C34 is plumbed after the pump.) Or remove the pressure hose at the pump and put on a short length of hose and plug it.
Or you might try to pinch off the pressure side hose with a straight jaw vice grip tightly enough (protect it from damage from the teeth) to tell if it reduces (or eliminates) the cycling (indicating a possible leak downstream) or stays the same (a faulty pump microswitch, diaphgram, or check valve.) Use pieces of old hose, or the heavy red gasket rubber from an auto parts, or even two strips of metal or wood under a vice grip to to tightly pinch it off. Or pinch together two screwdriver shanks if you have nothing else. Narrow down/eliminate large sections that cause (or don't affect) the cycling.

Well, since I haven't found any leaks (so far) downstream of the pump, it makes sense to take a short length of hose, plugged at one end, and put it on the pump. If the pump cycles, then I'll know it's the pump. If not, then I know I have a leak somewhere down stream and I'll keep lookin'.

KWKloeber · August 02, 2021, 01:34:53 PM

Quote from: David Discenza on August 02, 2021, 01:12:48 PM

If not, then I know I have a leak somewhere down stream and I'll keep lookin'.

Then locate fittings on the pressure line where it tees off to different fixtures (or other areas,) plug there and figure out (isolate) which section has the leak -- then concentrate on just that section to locate it. Hopefully, w/o needing to tear apart the boat.) It could be a cracked tee or elbow -- I've had that happen to me.
I'll put even money on the pump (check valve or diaphragm - been down that road before.)