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Author Topic: Filling transmission with boat on an incline.  (Read 195 times)

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Sailing Amok

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Filling transmission with boat on an incline.
« on: April 23, 2021, 06:54:21 PM »

The transmissions on our boats hold very little fluid, so I'm wondering how much the transmission dip stick measurement may be off by, with the boat on the hard. Coral Wave spent the winter on a bit more of an incline than we had intended, we only realised after looking at other boats in the yard. Anyway, I filled the transmission to the top for winter storage, as the manual specifies, and now I intend to drain last year's fluid and fill with new for launch. However, with the boat on such an angle, what would be the best way to determine that the level is close to correct? How detrimental would it be to briefly run the engine after launch while moving the boat to the slip, with an incorrectly filled transmission, and would it be better to err on the side of over or under-filled?
Cheers,
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Aaron & Kristina
1998 C34 MKII "Coral Wave" M35B
The Great Lakes

KWKloeber

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Re: Filling transmission with boat on an incline.
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2021, 10:11:32 PM »

Coral

Are you saying you have old fluid, topped off with new stuff?
My typical procedure is to change the fluids at the END of the season, top off the tranny, then suck it down to the correct level in spring.
That way I don’t have old oil and tranny fluid sitting in there.

Get yourself a squeeze fill bottle, mark it to the correct fluid VOLUME for your tranny then when you refill you don’t need to be as concerned about the angle now or the incorrect dipstick reading.  See:

https://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,8828.msg63403.html#msg63403
https://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,9026.msg65628.html#msg65628


If you’re overly cautious overfill it, then suck it down to the correct level once she’s sitting level. It won’t take but a couple minutes using a squeeze bulb battery filler.  Just mark the stem of the filler with a (very tight) zip tie at the correct level (dipstick distance = tip of filler to zip tie.). Then you have the correct level without screwing with the dipstick playing the a-little-more, a-little-more, ooops-too-much game.   See:

https://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,9554.msg72003.html#msg72003


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Jim Hardesty

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Re: Filling transmission with boat on an incline.
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2021, 04:32:09 AM »

Quote
How detrimental would it be to briefly run the engine after launch while moving the boat to the slip, with an incorrectly filled transmission, and would it be better to err on the side of over or under-filled?

I'm sure it will be fine to motor to the slip if it's near by.  The level will be close to correct, recheck it after the boat is floating.  I store Shamrock level to her water line.  I know many lift operators think the boat should be bow high, but I insist that mine gets set near level. 
Ken has a good idea, I may try that.  Don't know how the rubber and plastic will hold up to the transmission oil in the long run.  May need a good cleaning after using.
Jim
« Last Edit: April 24, 2021, 04:36:47 AM by Jim Hardesty »
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Jim Hardesty
2001 MKII hull #1570 M35BC  "Shamrock"
sailing Lake Erie
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Sailing Amok

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Re: Filling transmission with boat on an incline.
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2021, 05:58:15 AM »

Yes, there is currently a mix of old and new fluid in there. That was my impression of how some folks were doing it based on the 101. I suppose emptying and filling with all fresh in the fall would make more sense, as that is what we do with the engine oil.
The previous owner of the boat had a small hand pump, which appears to have been used for ATF, judging by the residue in the baggy it's stored in.I suppose it would be best to clean it thoroughly before using it, in case there was some other sort of oil used with the pump as well. Any suggestions in that regard? Just flush some ATF through it, or would there be an appropriate solvent or something to use first?
Maybe it would be best to start fresh with the battery filler idea rather than the pump, I do like the idea of not having to mess with the dipstick. I suppose I could attach a piece of stiff tubing to the hose on the pump, and mark it the same way. There shouldn't be any back flow from the pump, so the fresh bit of tubing would solve any contamination concerns as well.
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Aaron & Kristina
1998 C34 MKII "Coral Wave" M35B
The Great Lakes

KWKloeber

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Re: Filling transmission with boat on an incline.
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2021, 11:11:03 AM »

I’m unsure your fear of contamination. Use the pump to empty the tyranny and the filler bottle for the new fluid. 
No contamination and you are replacing with exactly the correct amt of fluid. No muss, no fuss, no runs, no drips, no errors.

With 1/8 plastic tubing on my pump I can feel/reach to the corners of the tranny to evacuate all old fluid.

I use a 12v multipurpose pump that I use for fluid changes and a whole bunch more.
https://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,9554.msg72039.html#msg72039



 
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So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
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Ron Hill

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Re: Filling transmission with boat on an incline.
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2021, 01:02:53 PM »

Aaron : The engine /transmission are centerline of the boat, so unless you are at a angle more than 20 degrees I wouldn't worry about it!

Years ago when the transmission was at the correct level I sucked all of the fluid out into a glass jar and etched that level.  Now in the spring I suck all the fluid out, fill the glass jar to the etch line and pour it in to the transmission.  Then when I'm back in the slip I recheck that level - it's usually right on!!

A few thoughts
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KWKloeber

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Re: Filling transmission with boat on an incline.
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2021, 02:59:44 PM »

Here's another way to refill it correct “Read the damn instructiins” 

The manuals actually TELL US how much fluid to put in the tranny, we've put a lot of effort into getting a the manuals on the Wiki!!
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Sailing Amok

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Re: Filling transmission with boat on an incline.
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2021, 06:39:46 PM »

Here's another way to refill it correct “Read the damn instructiins” 

The manuals actually TELL US how much fluid to put in the tranny, we've put a lot of effort into getting a the manuals on the Wiki!!

Yeah, but Ron's advice accounts for the fluid you can never get out. Also, it's a bit crazy how many errors I've found in the manual in the short single season we've had the boat. There are revisions on revisions. Sometimes it's hard to know which revision is the revision for your boat, especially it seems with the many iterations of the M35.
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Aaron & Kristina
1998 C34 MKII "Coral Wave" M35B
The Great Lakes

KWKloeber

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Re: Filling transmission with boat on an incline.
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2021, 07:21:44 PM »

Here's another way to refill it correct “Read the damn instructiins” 

The manuals actually TELL US how much fluid to put in the tranny, we've put a lot of effort into getting a the manuals on the Wiki!!


Yeah, but Ron's advice accounts for the fluid you can never get out. Also, it's a bit crazy how many errors I've found in the manual in the short single season we've had the boat. There are revisions on revisions. Sometimes it's hard to know which revision is the revision for your boat, especially it seems with the many iterations of the M35.


mark.

The point (possibly not well articulated) was one doesn’t need to go into extraordinary permutations to get it “close enuf” until  the boat is level or to motor until one can take time to check the dipstick.

Close enuf - what you can’t get out is unmeasurable - the spec on mine is 0.3L ATF.  After sucking out I added 0.3L.  I do the same every change.  The level is ALWAYS right at the dipstick mark.
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Noah

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Re: Filling transmission with boat on an incline.
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2021, 07:57:15 PM »

Ken- a suggestion: perhaps you should change the name of the file listing to “ZF Hurth Transmissions; Operation, Service and Searchable Parts Manual”.  ??? Might be more descriptive and easier to find?
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KWKloeber

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Re: Filling transmission with boat on an incline.
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2021, 08:57:34 PM »

Ken- a suggestion: perhaps you should change the name of the file listing to “ZF Hurth Transmissions; Operation, Service and Searchable Parts Manual”.  ??? Might be more descriptive and easier to find?

Noah,

I could do that, but it’s not a Hurth manual.  The fluid specs are in the ENGINE manuals (ops manuals and service manuals.)
Everyone has a copy of their various engine manuals and is familiar with them cover to cover, RIGHT?  Not just when something has gone wrong?

Besides, the Hurth wasn’t the only tranny Westerbeke used on the “B” engines - the manuals cover both specs (I have no clue whether the C34s all ended up with Hurths.)
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Noah

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Re: Filling transmission with boat on an incline.
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2021, 09:56:03 PM »

Ok. I get ya.
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Ron Hill

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Re: Filling transmission with boat on an incline.
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2021, 01:26:08 PM »

Ken : All of the production MK 1 C34s would up with the Hurths'.  M25 & M25XP had the Hurth 50 and then the M35 had the Hurth 100.

A thought
« Last Edit: April 26, 2021, 03:11:18 PM by Ron Hill »
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KWKloeber

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Re: Filling transmission with boat on an incline.
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2021, 03:15:29 PM »

Ron

I was referring to specifically the B series. Wb used two different tranny mfgrs.

K
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Robert Mann

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Re: Filling transmission with boat on an incline.
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2021, 06:21:58 PM »

I thought both transmissions are the same, early ones were badged Hurth.  Hurth was acquired by ZF in 1995 and I presume they changed the name of the Hurth 100,  to a ZF 10 M. This is the tranny installed in my 2002 boat

This is the fluid capacity, from the ZF manual

4.2 Oil quantity
ZF 3 M 0.30 ltr 0.32 qts
ZF 5 M 0.30 ltr 0.32 qts
ZF 10 M 0,35 ltr 0.37 qts
ZF 12 M 0.56 ltr 0.59 qts
ZF 15 M 0.56 ltr 0.59 qts
ZF 15 MA 0.47 ltr 0.50 qts
ZF 15 MIV 1.00 ltr 1.06 qts
ZF 25 M 0.75 ltr 0.79 qts
ZF 25 MA 0.75 ltr 0.79 qts
min. 0.90 ltr min. 0.95 qts ZF 30 M
max. 1.10 ltr max. 1.17 qts
« Last Edit: April 25, 2021, 06:32:28 PM by Robert Mann »
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Catalina 34 MkII, Indigostar, 2002 no 1622, M35-BC
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