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Author Topic: stringer location  (Read 483 times)

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Ron Hill

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Re: stringer location
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2021, 01:15:22 PM »

Bill : My #4 gage Marine Grade wire does great.  I would NEVER go higher than #2 gage MG wire.  My and probably your voltage regulator is stepped down so the alternator will never charge over 80 amps anyway!!!  That short distance the difference between #4 & #2 loss is almost negligible!!!

I'm afraid that when you go to a stiffer wire you might create other problems - I have already once broken one positive connection at the alternator - I believe from engine vibration to the stiff #4 wire!!  It broke the ring connector!!!!  The other problem might be finding a ring connector with a small enough hole to connect to the alternator with #0 wire!!

As far as the hot water hoses to the head sink - that area under the flooring is wide open! 

A few thoughts
« Last Edit: April 25, 2021, 02:38:14 PM by Ron Hill »
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Stu Jackson

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Re: stringer location
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2021, 04:50:03 PM »

Bill : My #4 gage Marine Grade wire does great.  I would NEVER go higher than #2 gage MG wire.  My and probably your voltage regulator is stepped down so the alternator will never charge over 80 amps anyway!!!  That short distance the difference between #4 & #2 loss is almost negligible!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I sent Bill a pm asking about his decision making process of this wire sizing, haven't heard back yet, hope he's boat-busy today!  :D
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

Bill Shreeves

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Re: stringer location
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2021, 04:57:14 PM »

I replied to Stu's PM via email this AM and just got an email from the web master.  So, I just sent a PM back to him. 

In short,
So, my reason for 2/0 is I plan on using Blue Seas ACR 7620 or 7622 that includes Start Assist providing the ability to override and combine the house bank with the start battery to start the engine should my start battery unexpectedly not be up to the task.  So, the house bank run is about 8-1/2 - 9 feet by the time I go down over and back up, so I rounded to 10'. Double that for a 20' run, 3% voltage drop, possible less than ideal cable environment conditions to start the battery = massive cable for ACR & ground for insurance.

I'm a newbie at boat wiring "design" and if I'm way over-sized share your thoughts.  When I first sized this I had my start battery in the hanging locker at the Nav station but I'm now seriously thinking about moving the start battery to the shelf in the aft cabin and enclose it and mount the regulator above it on the port bulkhead above the battery
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Bill Shreeves
s/v "Begnnings" 1987 Shoal Draft #333
M25XPB, Worton Creek, MD

Bill Shreeves

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Re: stringer location
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2021, 05:32:51 PM »

Bill : My #4 gage Marine Grade wire does great.  I would NEVER go higher than #2 gage MG wire.  My and probably your voltage regulator is stepped down so the alternator will never charge over 80 amps anyway!!!  That short distance the difference between #4 & #2 loss is almost negligible!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I sent Bill a pm asking about his decision making process of this wire sizing, haven't heard back yet, hope he's boat-busy today!  :D

I was "boat-busy".  I disconnected all the wires and control cables in the way of removing the after water tank because I had a leak.   I found two at each corner where the aft tank wall meets the step down at the top.  I plastic welded some stainless screen and filled over-top.  I also replaced the leaky port cockpit scupper.  I'll replace the stbd scupper next week, test the tank etc...
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The only thing that always works on an old boat is the owner...

Bill Shreeves
s/v "Begnnings" 1987 Shoal Draft #333
M25XPB, Worton Creek, MD

Jon W

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Re: stringer location
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2021, 07:26:57 PM »

Do you have a schematic you can post?

FWIW - Using a spreadsheet I copied from the C34 Tech WIKI in 2015, my voltage drop from house bank to alternator 1AWG positive and negative circuit is 4.7%. Regardless, the engine jumps to life with 1AWG. 1AWG was a challenge to route in tight spaces. I can't imagine what 0 or 00AWG will be like.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2021, 08:54:36 PM by Jon W »
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Jon W.
s/v Della Jean
Hull #493, 1987 MK 1, M25XP, Std Rig
San Diego, Ca

Stu Jackson

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Re: stringer location
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2021, 11:12:04 AM »

Do you have a schematic you can post?

FWIW - Using a spreadsheet I copied from the C34 Tech WIKI in 2015, my voltage drop from house bank to alternator 1AWG positive and negative circuit is 4.7%. Regardless, the engine jumps to life with 1AWG. 1AWG was a challenge to route in tight spaces. I can't imagine what 0 or 00AWG will be like.

Folks, Bill sent me his diagram offline.  Here it is.  I've just started reviewing it.

FWIW back, I agree, and I did the same with my #2 AO.  I still use the OEM #4 wire from my switch to the starter.  Also remember that there are #4 wires from the battery box to the switch.
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

Patches

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Re: stringer location
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2021, 11:50:02 AM »

I also followed Jon's lead when doing my new battery/wiring upgrade this winter.  I used 1AWG from batteries to starter/solenoid (and from AO to back to batteries), routed underneath galley floor to engine compartment like in Jon's photo. Cut a 6" X 6" access panel in the FG floor pan under the teak and holly floor to help fish those larger cables.  The floor pan is 1" thick, cored with 3/4" marine ply:  very strong.

Now have nothing going from the batteries through the panel (to the motor) in either direction. Was able to re-purpose the existing channels/conduit running under the head/wet locker to route wires for the new Balmar external regulator mounted in the aft cabin to the battery compartment.

Seems like I took out acres of original #4 wire, none of it tinned copper.
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Ron Hill

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Re: stringer location
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2021, 02:59:21 PM »

Guys : I don't believe that (from what I've seen) that any of the Mk 1 C34s have ANY tinned marine grade wire anywhere!!

My thought
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mdidomenico

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Re: stringer location
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2021, 07:06:34 AM »

Guys : I don't believe that (from what I've seen) that any of the Mk 1 C34s have ANY tinned marine grade wire anywhere!!

having removed every single piece of wiring from my boat, i can confirm this is likely true.  or at least i certainly was for me.
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1989 Cat34 #856, original mxp-25a

waughoo

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Re: stringer location
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2021, 08:35:18 AM »

I can also confirm that everything I've removed on my 91 has not been tinned.
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Alex - Seattle, WA
91 mk1.5 #1120
Std rig w/wing keel
Belafonte

Noah

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Re: stringer location
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2021, 09:07:24 AM »

While changing wire and/or installing stuff on your boat, I would also be on the lookout for hidden surprises like this beauty I found lurking on my boat behind some trim...

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1990 hull #1014, San Diego, CA,  Fin Keel,
Standard Rig

Bill Shreeves

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Re: stringer location
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2021, 12:00:01 PM »

While changing wire and/or installing stuff on your boat, I would also be on the lookout for hidden surprises like this beauty I found lurking on my boat behind some trim...

Kinda makes one wish for plastic / non-conductive screws  :shock:


BTW, my stern navigation light was 16 gauge brown lamp cord.  My bow still is but, hopefully not for too much longer.
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The only thing that always works on an old boat is the owner...

Bill Shreeves
s/v "Begnnings" 1987 Shoal Draft #333
M25XPB, Worton Creek, MD

Ron Hill

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Re: stringer location
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2021, 01:27:32 PM »

Bill : A number of us have mounted their Voltage Regulators in the compartment under the head sink.  It is just around the corner from the alternator, is low in a cool place and you can easily check the LED lights.  Also easy to run the battery temp wire from the batteries to the regulator.

Note that the Balmar regulators are mounted on a heat sync and have cooling fins.  I even took a small "Rubber Made" box an cut the bottom and most of the sides off, so the top protects the regulator.  The box is between the wall and the regulator.

A few thoughts
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Noah

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Re: stringer location
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2021, 01:49:18 PM »

My Balmer Regulator is mounted on the door.
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1990 hull #1014, San Diego, CA,  Fin Keel,
Standard Rig

Bill Shreeves

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Re: stringer location
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2021, 03:08:09 PM »

very nice solution Noah
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The only thing that always works on an old boat is the owner...

Bill Shreeves
s/v "Begnnings" 1987 Shoal Draft #333
M25XPB, Worton Creek, MD
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