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Author Topic: "Ultimate" rigging and sails for TR/WK  (Read 582 times)

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Stu Jackson

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Re: "Ultimate" rigging and sails for TR/WK
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2021, 08:12:38 PM »

Alex, Noah is right about my rigging.

While we're here and gettin' good describing what each others have  :D  that cam cleat is for more easily raising the mainsail from the cockpit without having to go forward again.  I remember describing it here years ago, and former Commodore Rick Allen had one I had photographed.  Noah implemented this idea very nicely.   
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

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Stu Jackson

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Re: "Ultimate" rigging and sails for TR/WK
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2021, 08:16:24 PM »

Alex, look at the link in my Reply #1 on this topic.  It has photos of exactly what's there.

I figured it was in that link and thats what set me about asking.  I just wasnt sure which one was the vang.  I'll look at it again now that i know it is in there somewhere.  Thanks Stu.

Yes, Alex, you can follow the vang line through the pictures.  White thin line with blue flecks.  Old pre-digital photos that we scanned into jpgs.
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

Medved

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Re: "Ultimate" rigging and sails for TR/WK
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2021, 06:42:42 AM »

Thank you Stu and all. I will keep researching and talking to riggers. Will share what I am thinking of doing here to get specific feedback.
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Ed Shankle

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Re: "Ultimate" rigging and sails for TR/WK
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2021, 07:12:38 AM »

 Noah,
Do you get any chafing of the vang line at the deck organizer turning block due the angle of entry? To avoid that, I replaced one of the mast base blocks with a double and ran the line from the vang block to the double to the deck organizer. That dropped the line down enough to run fair.

Regards,
Ed
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Ed Shankle
Tail Wind #866 1989
Salem, MA

ewengstrom

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Re: "Ultimate" rigging and sails for TR/WK
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2021, 07:43:19 AM »

Noah,
Thanks for the photos, although they are only somewhat helpful for what I'm looking for. The problem isn't the routing back to the cockpit, ours is routed back to a triple clutch on the ports side cabin top. My exact problem is the routing of the lines on the vang itself. I'm also not sure my vang is exactly like yours but since everything is off of the boom I'm going to go down and get a couple of shots of it this weekend.

I do like that jam cleat for the main halyard on the mast though, that was a big bonus included with your photo(s)!!! I have a spare jam cleat that's been living in my parts box for years and now it's got a home and purpose, much obliged on that point sir!!!
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Eric Wengstrom
s/v Ohana
Colonial Beach, Virginia
1988 Catalina 34 MKI SR/WK
Hull #564
Universal M25XP
Rocna 15

Noah

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Re: "Ultimate" rigging and sails for TR/WK
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2021, 08:11:24 AM »

Eric- if you zoom in on my dogís (Mr. Milo), back scratcher photo you should be sble to see how my vang lines are run along side the piston.
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1990 hull #1014, San Diego, CA,  Fin Keel,
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Dave Spencer

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Re: "Ultimate" rigging and sails for TR/WK
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2021, 08:39:57 AM »

Eric,
Between Noah's picture and mine attached below, you should be able to trace the routing on the Garhauer solid vang.

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Dave Spencer
C34 #1279  "Good Idea"
Mk 1.5, Std Rig, Wing Keel, M35A Engine
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People - London, Ontario

PaulJacobs

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Re: "Ultimate" rigging and sails for TR/WK
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2021, 09:25:02 AM »

Hi Medved,

While there is much good information on this thread about how and where to lead the vang control line, I think your initial question was more like "what would sailors on this forum, with considerable C34 sailing experience most recommend if they were purchasing new sails, standing rigging, and running rigging"?  Let's take these one at a time.

My long departed and very beloved father used to say "The easiest thing in the world is to spend someone else's money".  Thus, one might recommend carbon fiber sails, rod or even carbon fiber standing rigging, and all Vectran cored running rigging.  One could quickly spend more money in these three areas alone than the market value of an entire 20 - 30 year old C34!

So, I will go in the other direction.  How can one achieve the most "bang for the buck"? 

Regarding standing rigging, I and I believe most others would say that for anything except a full out racing machine, conventional 19 strand SS wire rope will provide the greatest "bang for the buck", and if checked periodically, not grossly overstressed by sailing in a hurricane, and maintained properly, should last for a minimum of 15 years and probably even longer.  The standing rigging on Pleiades is inspected every other year, has ZERO "fishooks", zero rust, is never sailed in winds over 40 knots, and is now 30 years old.  I probably will upgrade to all new standing rigging next year - just because at 31 years we are probably dancing on thin ice.

Regarding running rigging, again unless you plan to do a lot of racing, conventional Dacron (viz. polyester) line works fine for most applications.  One "modest upgrade" I might heartily suggest is the use of Regatta Braid for the jib sheets and main sheet, since I absolutely detest "hockles" in running rigging, and lines like "Sta-Set" are very prone to hockling (i.e. twisting itself into a pretzel that will then not pass through a fairlead, or a self-tailer on a winch).  Regatta Braid, on the other hand almost never hockles!  Also, if your budget will allow, I definitely would look into a bit more exotic lines with significantly lower stretch for the main & jib halyards (some stretch in a spinnaker halyard is OK to minimize shock loads when the chute suddenly re-fills in a fresh gust of wind).  I got really tired of having to regularly re-tension the former Sta-Set X halyards after luff wrinkles would re-appear as the wind increased.  I switched to a Vectran cored line by Yale about five years ago.  The extra cost was probably $200, but it is now an absolute joy to apply winch tension to the main and jib and KNOW that there will not be a bunch of luff wrinkles 15 minutes later.

By far, the biggest impact - and the biggest cost - will be a new suit of sails.  Here the influence of local conditions will be significant.  In predominantly lighter air areas you may want a bit larger headsail, while in windier areas a smaller headsail is better IMHO.  Tacking is much easier and faster with a smaller headsail, especially so in heavier winds and with minimal crew.  I definitely would recommend a loose footed mainsail (better sail shape down near the boom, and much easier to secure reef ties around the foot of the mainsail when reefing),  as well as four full length battens (again, better sail shape head to foot).  A square top or more roach at the leech might be nice if you were racing, but they add expense, complexity, and only modest gains in performance.  Finally, I would seriously recommend a minimum sail cloth weight of 7 oz. / square yard, and perhaps even 8 oz.  Lighter weight is fine for very light winds, but it only takes one sail at high wind speed (intentional or unintentional) to pretty much permanently "blow-out" a sails shape.

As a physicist, I always used to say "angular momentum, not difference of opinion actually makes the world go around", but indeed you will get different opinions from different sailors, in different sailing areas.  Hopefully, my comments above will help you make some important decisions.  If you replace all three the performance of your C34 will be significantly improved, but I fully understand that within reasonable budget constraints, you really want to "get it right the first time".  All the best in your quest. 

Fair winds & following seas,

Paul
1990 C34 - 1068,
Tall Rig, Full Keel.
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Noah

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Re: "Ultimate" rigging and sails for TR/WK
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2021, 10:32:03 AM »

Stu, (and others): Stu, I know you cleat your primary jib halyard on the mast but... if you have a spare jib halyard run, do you take up a cabin top clutch for it, or is it cleated at the mast?
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1990 hull #1014, San Diego, CA,  Fin Keel,
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Stu Jackson

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Re: "Ultimate" rigging and sails for TR/WK
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2021, 11:05:48 AM »

Stu, (and others): Stu, I know you cleat your primary jib halyard on the mast but... if you have a spare jib halyard run, do you take up a cabin top clutch for it, or is it cleated at the mast?

My spare jib halyard stays on the mast, too.  I cleat the standing end off on a Johnson shroud cleat on the port side forward lower.

For Alex, the reason I can and do tie the jib halyard off at the mast is because of the way I use my ProFurl jib system.  Instead of using the jib halyard to tension the luff, I use a tack pennant made of thin high strength line in a few loops between the tack grommet and the D shackle on the top of the furling drum.  I unfurl the jib and adjust the tack based on wind conditions.

From the pictures in my Double Line Reefing link, the vang line comes into the top of the stacked deck organizer.

Those pictures were taken with our old dodger which had slits.  But they do show the traveler control lines led aft to simple Johnson bullet fairleads and then to the can cleats on the aft end of the cabintop.  The new dodger has simple single grommet holes one on each side for those traveler control lines.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 11:12:00 AM by Stu Jackson »
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

WTunnessen

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Re: "Ultimate" rigging and sails for TR/WK
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2021, 09:16:54 PM »

Medved,



I also have an 1988 TR/WK and single hand a lot in the Chesapeake.  Here are few suggestions:

- If you have a Hood continuous line roller furler upgrade to a single line furler with a long leg link plate so you can have better visibility. 

- when you upgrade the furler, you should replace the forestay. And if you use your old sail, you will need to get it cut. Otherwise get a new Genoa for the new furler.  New furler and sail is at least a $5K upgrade.

- Set up your headsail with reefing marks. I find reefing the jib the easiest thing to do if the wind kicks up and I need to act fast. If you get a new headsail, get one designed for reefing.

- If they arenít already, run all lines aft. For a vang, you might need to add a new deck organizer.

- An Autopilot, I feel, is absolutely necessary, especially if you doing solo cruising.  If you donít have one and you plan to singlehand a lot, you might want to install one first thing!

- Main sail reefing can be done different ways but what is key is that you can do it from the cock pit.  One reef point should be enough for the bay.

- Lazy jacks or sail pack are very helpful when dropping the main and needing to get it
 tidy quickly so you can get back to the wheel.

-new running rigging is an easy upgrade.  Good points in the earlier post.

- If you have concerns about your standing rigging, get a rigging inspection and ask them to prioritize any replacement/ upgrades, if necessary.

- Headsail size - if you plan to sail a lot in the summer in the Bay expect light winds. So a larger headsail (130+) can be helpful. You can always reef the genny and make it smaller.

- If you have a Ď88 you probably donít have a full batten main  but I would not feel compelled to switch to one. I can usually hoist my traditional baton main without the winch which means I can raise the sail quickly. If your old main is stretch out, upgrading is a big improvement and get one with contour lines since it will help you learn more about sail trim and twist.

- Traveller upgrade is nice. I have the original but I added new blocks and routed the lines through rope clutches (vs jam cleats) which is a huge improvement. The clutches allow me to quickly adjust the traveller which is important when singlehanding.

- I donít have adjustable Genoa blocks and donít think I will add them since itís another line to trip on and Iím not racing.

Hope that helps.
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Gaulois #579 C34 Tall Rig - CYC West River, MD

Medved

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Re: "Ultimate" rigging and sails for TR/WK
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2021, 04:55:47 AM »

Thank you WTunnessen for the tips. I sent you a PM not sure if you got it.
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ChrisOB

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Re: "Ultimate" rigging and sails for TR/WK
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2021, 02:39:10 AM »

I refitted with the Rolly Tasker fully battened loose foot Main, 135 roller furler, and asym with sock about 7 years ago. They have treated me quite well. No, they aren't as good as North, Quantum, Ullman, but I have tested them pretty hard and feel for the price they are a good value. If you are crossing the Atlantic, or racing then maybe spend triple on Quantum. If you are replacing halyards, you might want to check your clutches at the same time. I just installed the new Garhauer 14-11S ones under the dodger and am happy (I attempted to clean and rebuild the very old spinlock XT but they were done). Very exciting to get to pick all new stuff for your new boat!
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1986 MK1 Tall rig/Fin Keel #247
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