Join the C34 Association Today!
[C34 Home] [C34Tech Notes] [C34 Tech Wiki] [Join!]
Please login or register.
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: As they age  (Read 880 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

waughoo

  • Forum - Petty Officer 3rd Class
  • ***
  • Karma: 1
  • Posts: 50
    • View Profile
Re: As they age
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2020, 08:51:35 AM »

Jeff,

Thanks for the clarification.  I would have chosen a fin for my cruising area had the choice been available as we have plenty of depth, but bargin hunters cant be choosers.  This one is set up with a 135 with a high cut foot.  Despite sailing other C34s (all fin keel mk1s) i haven't sailed this one outside of a quick sail on sea trial day in VERY light air.  I look forward to learning the new set up.
Logged
Alex - Seattle, WA
91 mk1.5 #1120
Std rig w/wing keel
Belafonte

wingman

  • Forum - Seaman
  • **
  • Karma: 0
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
Re: As they age
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2020, 05:31:15 AM »

Very interesting discussion!

I've got a lot of time on a fin keel Catalina 30, wing keel Catalina 320, and wing keel Catalina 34 MKii.

Bottom line, I like Catalinas!

The fin keel 30 was a joy to sail, very stiff in a good wind. Working upwind that boat was very balanced and you could "feel" the rudder in slipstream and make very slight corrections for course or weather helm.

The wing keel 320 is a capable boat, but performance is middling, particularly upwind with the wing keel. Still a great weekender if you're not in a hurry.

I've now got a couple of years on the 34 MKii and I love it. Really a step up in performance from the 320 and an asym really comes in handy during the dog days of summer.

I'm trying tweak the pointing ability as much as possible (suggestions welcome). If I was racing I'd probably look for a fin but am sold on the wing keel for the Chesapeake since we're in and out of lots of tight places (Farleigh Cr is a good example).

Logged
2000 Catalina 34 mkII, #1471

scgunner

  • Forum - Chief Petty Officer
  • ******
  • Karma: 8
  • Posts: 507
    • View Profile
Re: As they age
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2020, 07:08:13 AM »

Wingman,

One of the tricks I used when I was racing to improve pointing was a no cost rigging adjustment. You can ease the forestay, take up the slack with the backstay, next loosen the rear shrouds and tighten the fore shrouds. The idea is to put a rearward bow in the mast which should improve you're pointing ability. An adjustable backstay has a similar effect, but unless you're racing that can be an expensive option and requires alteration to your rigging.
Logged
Kevin Quistberg                                                 Top Gun 1987 Mk 1 Hull #273

Ron Hill

  • Forum - Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
  • ********
  • Karma: 57
  • Posts: 7197
    • View Profile
Re: As they age
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2020, 03:01:00 PM »

Kevin : If you look in the Mainsheet Tech notes, you see my article on Making Your Own "Back Stay Adjuster".  No alteration to my rigging was necessary. 

It was NOT expensive at all!!  (also helps keep the mast in column in heavy winds)

A thought
« Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 03:02:57 PM by Ron Hill »
Logged
Ron, Apache #788

scgunner

  • Forum - Chief Petty Officer
  • ******
  • Karma: 8
  • Posts: 507
    • View Profile
Re: As they age
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2020, 03:23:22 PM »

Ron,

I couldn't find your backstay adjuster article, but obviously if you make your own it's going to be cheaper that an aftermarket unit. Have you seen what they're getting for a hydraulic backstay adjuster or or even a manual wheel adjusted model?
Logged
Kevin Quistberg                                                 Top Gun 1987 Mk 1 Hull #273

wingman

  • Forum - Seaman
  • **
  • Karma: 0
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
Re: As they age
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2020, 05:22:49 AM »

Thanks for the backstay adjuster suggestion.

I found two articles by searching at https://c34.org/tech-notes-index/tech-notes-index-search.htm

I've only used a more typical hydraulic back stay adjuster that pulls straight down, but the "squeeze" adjuster looks interesting, less expensive, easy to install,  but I have to ask, is it really kosher?

Was the split backstay meant to be pulled horizontally like that? Also curious if anyone has installed on MKii.

I would really like to squeeze (pun intended) out a little more upwind performance but I don't want to over stress anything.
Logged
2000 Catalina 34 mkII, #1471

scgunner

  • Forum - Chief Petty Officer
  • ******
  • Karma: 8
  • Posts: 507
    • View Profile
Re: As they age
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2020, 07:10:12 AM »

Wingman,

The "squeeze" adjuster is a fairly common addition especially with beer can racers, it's fairly cheap and easy to do and can be removed when not racing. I've never heard of anybody complaining about adverse effects of this gear on the rigging.
Logged
Kevin Quistberg                                                 Top Gun 1987 Mk 1 Hull #273

wingman

  • Forum - Seaman
  • **
  • Karma: 0
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
Re: As they age
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2020, 07:42:59 AM »

scgunner, I haven't done much racing so that's good to know, thanks.
Logged
2000 Catalina 34 mkII, #1471

Ron Hill

  • Forum - Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
  • ********
  • Karma: 57
  • Posts: 7197
    • View Profile
Re: As they age
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2020, 02:50:26 PM »

Guys : BACKSATAY ADJUSTER 
I added a SS tang to one side of the lower backstay split chain plate anchors coming out of the transom.  I made my own small pully block sheaves (so they were 1/2" to go up on to the swedges) they were attached together with a ring.  Then there was a 3:1 system with a cam-cleat that attached to the tang at the bottom and the ring at the top.  Pulling on the line would pull down the blocks squeezing the split stays together and tightening the back stay  (clear as mud?) 

I built that adjuster as one of the first improvements (early 1989?)  Made it well before the elliptical rudder - because the original wing keel rudder did NOT have enough surface area to control the boat!!!  In winds just at & slightly above 15kts the boat would uncontrollably head-up in to the wind!! The back stay adjuster would flatten the Main and allow you to be back in control!  That was a real "attention getter"!!   :shock:

A few thoughts

« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 03:00:12 PM by Ron Hill »
Logged
Ron, Apache #788

scgunner

  • Forum - Chief Petty Officer
  • ******
  • Karma: 8
  • Posts: 507
    • View Profile
Re: As they age
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2020, 07:26:30 AM »

Wingman,

You'll have to decide what works best for you. If you're just looking to improve pointing adjusting the rig will do that, however you will lose something downwind. If you want to improve your all around Ron's idea is a good one and relatively economical as well. When I stopped racing I left the rig tuned as it was because I like pointing too and it seems like I do most of my sailing upwind.

If you really want to chase that demon there are other things you can do as well. For example anything you can do to flatten the sails will enable you to sail closer to the wind.
Logged
Kevin Quistberg                                                 Top Gun 1987 Mk 1 Hull #273

Jim Hardesty

  • Forum - Master Chief Petty Officer
  • *******
  • Karma: 10
  • Posts: 1213
    • View Profile
Re: As they age
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2020, 08:49:48 AM »

Excuse me for being off topic.  Just want to pitch my go-to guide to sail and rig trim.  May be a few sailors that don't know about this book.  I reread every spring and don't loan it out.

https://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod.php?55534/Sail+Trim+Chart+and+Guide+Combo

Jim
Logged
Jim Hardesty
2001 MKII hull #1570 M35BC  "Shamrock"
sailing Lake Erie
from Commodore Perry Yacht Club
Erie, PA

scgunner

  • Forum - Chief Petty Officer
  • ******
  • Karma: 8
  • Posts: 507
    • View Profile
Re: As they age
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2020, 09:37:25 AM »

No worries Jim, it looks like we already wandered off topic before you got here. Looks like a nice sailor's trim guide, I may have to add it to my collection.

Back on topic(at least for a while), it seems a damn shame to see one of our C34s wind up in the boneyard.
Logged
Kevin Quistberg                                                 Top Gun 1987 Mk 1 Hull #273

Stu Jackson

  • C34IA - Secretary
  • Forum - Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
  • ********
  • Karma: 70
  • Posts: 7754
    • View Profile
Re: As they age
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2020, 01:27:42 PM »

Excuse me for being off topic.  Just want to pitch my go-to guide to sail and rig trim.  May be a few sailors that don't know about this book.  I reread every spring and don't loan it out.

https://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod.php?55534/Sail+Trim+Chart+and+Guide+Combo

Jim

I concur.  I've read them all, ever since we bought our first boat in 1983.  I have the two hardcover Sail Trim books and many others.  This is BY FAR the most concise, easy to read and easy to use sail trim book I've ever read. 

There is even a chapter on how to start to learn to race, hard to find anywhere else 'cuz nobody's gonna give their "secrets" away.  :D :D :D
Logged
Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

KWKloeber

  • Forum - Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
  • ********
  • Karma: 32
  • Posts: 3729
  • "Positive Impact" 1984 C-30 #3573 trbsfk M-25
    • View Profile
Re: As they age
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2020, 06:20:59 PM »

Re: Backstay adjuster.

Iím surprised the 34 didnít have a stock adjuster. My Ď84 C30 had one OEM ó very similar to what Ron described with one key difference. The transom had a third tang (middle of the transom) for the cam cleat. That was a royal PITA due to it being in the way accessing the ladder (I added a snap hook to the bottom of the cleat so I could unhook, and hook the adjuster off to the rail) and it hitting the helmsperson in the butt and back.

CTY (or Garhauer) revised that to run the adjuster from one backstay tang, up to the squeeze blocks, and back down to the cam cleat installed on the opposite backstay tang. They simply added a shackle to the existing tangs to make the connections. 

Many years ago I got new ball bearing adjuster blocks and whatnot from Garhauer. 
If you want to add an adjuster Garhauer has the setup for that.

Ken
Logged
Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

scgunner

  • Forum - Chief Petty Officer
  • ******
  • Karma: 8
  • Posts: 507
    • View Profile
Re: As they age
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2020, 07:43:48 AM »

Ken,

I'm actually surprised your C30 came from the factory with a backstay adjuster. Catalinas have traditionally been a cruising class of boats that are well built and inexpensive, one of the ways they kept the cost down was by providing a minimum amount of sail trimming gear. Sail performance gear is one of those things which will rapidly and significantly raise the price of a boat.
Logged
Kevin Quistberg                                                 Top Gun 1987 Mk 1 Hull #273
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up