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Author Topic: Engine Mounts  (Read 2189 times)

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suereal

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Engine Mounts
« on: October 19, 2020, 02:55:29 PM »

I'm replacing my engine mounts on Seaclusion, C-34 MK1, Hull # 364 and have 2 questions:

1. For those of you in the know, should i go to Catalina Direct and order or is there another brand/manufacturer that you'd recommend.

2. I've found one of the (I assume) lag bolts that holds the mount to the stringer in the engine compartment to be broken off. I assume I'm going to have to pull the engine out of the way to be able to access the remainder of the bolt and use an "easyout" or some such to extract it. Less fun than just lifting it a bit.

I apologize ahead of time for the questions, but I have read 101 and gotten some great info also read the the Wiki info (that is not working right now, btw) and other posts, some of which are fairly old (one was by a J. Slocum) So I was wondering if there's been any new developments that would be helpful.

Thanks.
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Dave & Pamm Monier
San Carlos Son. MX
Seaclusion
C34 #364, M25 XP #37 Oshkosh,WI
“Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Insider of a dog, it’s too dark to read”. Groucho Marx

KWKloeber

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Re: Engine Mounts
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2020, 03:44:46 PM »

First which engine does she have?  The B engines used a different mount than earlier engines.
(It really saves time if you put the engine info in the profile or signature.)

The difference is that the B mounts have a different footprint/hole centers than the older mounts. So to match existing hole centers on B engines, you’re pretty much stuck buying the overpriced Westerbeke mounts. I’ve never located them aftermarket.
 
If on a B engine you’re into completely revamping the mounts, of course the hole centers can be repositioned to be able to use the less expensive mounts.

On the non-B engines the preferred mounts are the Vetus K-75.  The K-50s are too soft. They list for about $85 but you can find them online for about $65.

For the B engines the CD price is the same as Westerbeke’s - you won’t find them cheaper because Wb has them price controlled.  They’re good mounts, just too ‘spensive.
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mdidomenico

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Re: Engine Mounts
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2020, 03:47:28 PM »

i ordered my new vetus mounts from somewhere else.  the CD ones were too expensive for my liking and everyone else seemed to like the vetus ones for those that replaced.

as for getting the bolt out.  depends on which one and how much is still in the engine bed.  they're reasonably long.  its hard enough to get them out with the engine in, i'm not sure i could get a broken one out.  but it's just stubborn determination which will say whether you succeed or fail
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1989 Cat34 #856, original m-25xp

suereal

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Re: Engine Mounts
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2020, 09:52:14 PM »

Thanks for the input.

KW- the Engine is a M-25 XP. I don’t know from A or B.
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Dave & Pamm Monier
San Carlos Son. MX
Seaclusion
C34 #364, M25 XP #37 Oshkosh,WI
“Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Insider of a dog, it’s too dark to read”. Groucho Marx

ewengstrom

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Re: Engine Mounts
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2020, 02:51:17 AM »

We have the M25XP and I put 4 new Vetus K75 mounts on it last winter, VERY happy with the fit. The front bolt on the forward mount stbd side was broken about 1" inside the engine bed. I had to enlarge the hole until I could access the broken bolt and then remove it. To fix this bigger hole I shaped a dowel of teak or mahogany and epoxied it in place and then re-drilled. I check the bolts periodically during regular maintenance and all are still quite tight, including the repaired area.
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Eric Wengstrom
s/v Ohana
Colonial Beach, Virginia
1988 Catalina 34 MKI SR/WK
Hull #564
Universal M25XP
Rocna 15

suereal

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Re: Engine Mounts
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2020, 07:09:47 AM »

Eric,
Thanks for the first hand info. It’s just what I needed. I’ll let you know how it goes.
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Dave & Pamm Monier
San Carlos Son. MX
Seaclusion
C34 #364, M25 XP #37 Oshkosh,WI
“Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Insider of a dog, it’s too dark to read”. Groucho Marx

Ron Hill

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Re: Engine Mounts
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2020, 02:03:44 PM »

Sue & Guys : The easiest way to tell the M25XP from the M25XPB is by the paint job! 

The original M25/M25XP Oshkosh engines are Bronze while the Westerbeake "B" engine is a Silvery Light Blue !!

A thought

« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 01:36:17 PM by Ron Hill »
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Noah

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Re: Engine Mounts
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2020, 06:49:00 PM »

Ron— Are sure that is foolproof method? Mine engine is “bronze” colored but some parts on my engine where paint was chipped or worn show through blue gray. Is there another way to tell XP “A” from “B” based upon serial number?
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1990 hull #1014, San Diego, CA,  Fin Keel,
Standard Rig

KWKloeber

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Re: Engine Mounts
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2020, 12:23:31 AM »


The easiest way to tell the M25XP(A) from the M25XPB is by the paint job! 
The original "A" Oshkosh engine is Bronze while the Westerbeake "B" engine is a Silvery Light Blue !!


Ron

I have a bone to pick about that info.

Possibly you have different info, but my understanding is that:

The XP was Universal Medalist (Oshkosh, WI) we all know that. And was "Copper-bronze," mfgr'd 9/1986 to 3/1993
The XPA [and XPA(C)] were Westerbeke (Avon, MA) -- was "Ice Blue," mfgr'd 3/1993 to 8/1996
The XPB - is "Ice Blue"  mfg'd 8/1996 to present.

What I am saying is that Universal Medalist (Oshkosh) did not mfgr the XPA and it was not Bronze -- it was strictly Westerbeke after JHW purchased UM and then changed the XP wiring to mimic what it always had on its "Westerbeke" engines (that is the "A" designation,) and changed the paint at the same time.
So the average Joe can tell the XP (bronze) from the XPA (Ice Blue,) but can't differential between the XPA and the XPB strictly by color.

Are there bronze XPAs in C34s?  Because the XPAs in the C30s are only Ice Blue

-ken
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Craig Illman

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Re: Engine Mounts
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2020, 05:40:41 AM »

My 1991, Hull #1150 had an Ice Blue XPA. I don't think it was repowered by a PO?

Craig
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KWKloeber

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Re: Engine Mounts
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2020, 08:46:45 AM »


Mine engine is “bronze” colored but some parts on my engine where paint was chipped or worn show through blue gray.
Is there another way to tell XP “A” from “B” based upon serial number?


Noah,

The under color is Kubota industrial division (vs the typical orange Agricultural division.)  Universal merely over-coated what arrived from across the pond.  These engines were NOT simply pulled off the tractor (agricultural) engine assembly line -- they were specifically configured for Universal.

There is a VAST difference between the pre-B series and the B series -- they are completely different engines [not so for the 25, XP, XPA, XPA(C).]

Some telltales to hone in on which model (there are other differences more difficult to explain):

Seawater pump located center of the gear cover; within the v-belt = Westerbeke B series engine (eg, M-25XPB, XPB(C), M-35B.)

Seawater pump located on stbd side of the gear cover, outside the v-belt = Universal Medalist pre-B series engine (eg, M-25, XP, XPA, XPA(C).)
    * 855 cc (displacement) embossed onto the block, stb side = M-25
    * 927 cc (displacement) embossed onto the block. stb side = M-25XP (xtra power) or XPA or XPA(C).
    * Oil switch located just aft of the fwd port engine mount = "A" series (Westerbeke) (eg, M-25XPA, XPA(C), -35A.)

You can tell the series from the Universal serial number (on the modal tag) or from the Kb serial number (engraved into the block and difficult to locate.)

-k

** There will be a pop quiz on this.

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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

KWKloeber

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Re: Engine Mounts
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2020, 08:49:55 AM »

PS:

I have also seen "silver" XPAs -- probably early XPAs during the Universal/Westerbeke transition; i.e., forerunners to the Ice Blue paint on later XPAs and current XPBs.

-k
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 08:50:34 AM by KWKloeber »
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Ron Hill

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Re: Engine Mounts
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2020, 02:46:35 PM »

Ken : I have washed my mouth out with soap for making that ill founded comment about the M25XPA engine!!!
I promise to NEVER do that dasterly deed again!! 

Oshkosh only made a M25 & M25XP engine - NEVER a M25XPA
 
Also promise to never say anything about the C30s - which I'll leave all to you and Max Munger!!

I believe?? that Catalina in C34s, ONLY installed the M25XP (bronze colored) engines from Oshkosh, as the M35 engine became an option in 1990/91 C34 production. 

However, as Catalina has done in the past when they ran out of stock engines - they have even been known to install Yanmars!!

A few thoughts
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 05:11:18 PM by Ron Hill »
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Roland Gendreau

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Re: Engine Mounts
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2020, 03:09:47 PM »

I replaced the mounts on Gratitude with Vetus K75 mounts which have worked fine.  I replaced the mounts one at a time without lifting the engine;  remove the pin from the mount (use a vice) and slide the mount under the bracket, and reinstall the pin with a nut under the bracket.  You may need to remove a bracket to be able to access and remove the broken off lag bolt.   There are posts describing this procedure.

Roland
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Roland Gendreau
1992 MK 1.5
Gratitude #1183
Bristol, RI

suereal

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Re: Engine Mounts
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2020, 05:00:01 PM »

Ron et al:

Thanks for the help. Upon further review, I have a copper colored Universal M-25 XP made in Oshkosh, Wisconsin.  It appears that the serial number may be 37. So from this I’m assuming that my engine is an A. Again thanks to all for the help, education, and lively banter. I learn something every time I visit.
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Dave & Pamm Monier
San Carlos Son. MX
Seaclusion
C34 #364, M25 XP #37 Oshkosh,WI
“Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Insider of a dog, it’s too dark to read”. Groucho Marx
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