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Author Topic: Replacing Cutlass - this seems outrageous  (Read 2334 times)

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Ron Hill

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Re: Replacing Cutlass - this seems outrageous
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2020, 02:44:19 PM »

I looked at those prices and hours - they were just not inflated they were ASTROMITICAL !!

My thought    :shock:
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Ron, Apache #788

KWKloeber

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Re: Replacing Cutlass - this seems outrageous
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2020, 07:39:47 PM »

Kable

To make it the easiest for a change out, I tell folks to apply penetrant (your choice, PB, liquid wrench, kroil, homebrew, etc.  As many times as they are reasonably able to.   Alternate that with heat (propane torch -- several cycles of heating the strut/applying penetrant helps suck in the penetrant and break the corrosion bond before you try to push it.  Then heat the strut before pushing the old out (expands the strut.)   Every owner who has followed those preps has NO problem pushing/pushing.  Use a LITTLE never seize on the shaft and collets.    I even had one guy several yrs ago (the tool was out on rental so he was waiting in line) who fashioned a hammock out of a plastic bag and smothered the cutlass in penetrant for a week  -- maybe a little extreme/overkill/anal but afterward he said, "It was like butter."

-ken
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Jon W

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Re: Replacing Cutlass - this seems outrageous
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2020, 08:06:33 PM »

Kable,
  I provided the following info on a previous post originated by Geoff as a reference. The scope of work you are asking about is similar to what I had done in 2015. I am not saying you must do the same work I had done to replace your cutlass bearing. I am providing my real world experience to you as a benchmark only to help you make your decisions and support your discussions with your boatyard.

I had my OEM bronze prop shaft replaced with SST in 2015. The description of the work to do that on the invoice, plus the labor hours charged is as follows -

Replace drive shaft. Required removal of rudder. R&R shaft packing gland and clean gland. R&R stuffing box hose. Install new cutlass bearing. Replaced emergency tiller arm head. LABOR HOURS = 10 @ $90USD/hr

Engine alignment in slip. LABOR HOURS = 2.5 @ $90USD/hr

Fabricate prop shaft 1" x 57 1/4" (hard to read the dimensions on the invoice so don't use these for your boat) - $509USD
New SST tiller head emergency cap C34, 36, 38 - $155.51USD

In summary I was charged a total of 12.5 labor hours for all of that work. Each boat and situation is different, but if your being quoted 37 hours of labor you need to ask why the similar scope on a 1987 vintage boat was only 12.5 hours. Good luck.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 08:10:41 PM by Jon W »
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Jon W.
s/v Della Jean
Hull #493, 1987 MK 1, M25XP, 35# Mantus, Std Rig
San Diego, Ca

kable

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Re: Replacing Cutlass - this seems outrageous
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2020, 11:53:59 AM »

Thanks everyone for the great responses.  The boat is back in the water (last week) and ready for the season.

Good news:
So the 2nd mechanic stopped by the following Monday and cut out the shaft, cutlass and cleaned strut and sent prop to shop all in about 45 mins.  Obviously didnít drop the rudder.

I ended up getting a new SS drive shaft, cutlass, PSS dripless, split coupler, prop cupped, shinned and tuned.

The new shaft slid right past the rudder w/ the cutlass removed and then the cutlass was pressed in.

Was super impressed w/ the knowledge and responsiveness of this new 2nd mechanic, Roger from Top to Bottom.  Highly recommend.
* $500 - Labor (compared to the other estimate of $7K)
* $360 - New SS shaft (compared to $850)
* $120 - Split Coupler
* $310 - PSS seal (compared to $550)
* $50 - Cutlass

Bad news:
Now when I went to settle my bill w/ the original mechanic/yard (the original crazy estimates) they screwed me left and right to get every penny, especially since I didnít go with them.

Sea View North gave me estimate ranges.  EVERYTHING came in higher than the highest range. Even things they should have lots of experience with, torquing keel bolts came in 2 times their estimate.  I was charged 3hrs labor for them to pull the prop and ítryí to use their struts pro tool. I was there, it took about 30 mins.  They said the remaining time was consultation (making them explain their estimates for doing all the work).  So I was charged for asking if they can do something and then talking over why it was going to cost so much and then not using them.  Which was maybe 20 mins total.  They also, on their schedule, were slow to sand and paint the boat.  They got the last coat of paint on Friday afternoon.  Then the paint needs to dry.  They are closed on Sat/Sun.  They charged me lay days, even though they couldnít have launched me.
The mechanic at Sea View was good.  I would say the yard manager, Kyle, put together all the estimates and was most of the problem.  Trying to discuss all of this with him while going over the bill, he was obviously trying to screw me however he could.  They had my boat, so not much I could do except for pay and now tell others.  If you decide to use Sea View North in Bellingham, make sure you are there with a stop watch to help them clock in and out.

Ended up purchasing some Sex Wax to see how it does on the new running gear.  May try to re-apply late summer if I am brave enough in our cold waters.

Here you can barely see the scratch on the freshly painted rudder from the new SS shaft being inserted.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/pJzaZDvFV4p7mTj76

-kable
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1988 C34 #785 SR/WK Universal M25XP - "As We Wish" Bellingham, WA - San Juan Islands

Patches

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Re: Replacing Cutlass - this seems outrageous
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2020, 12:54:47 PM »

Kable:

Your experience with Seaview North sounds like my last experience with them at Seaview Shilshole about 5 years ago.  After receiving several assurances about the cost to do things, I was presented with a bill roughly $1500 more than what they quoted me.  Luckily, my boat was already in the slings and was to be the first boat to launch that morning.  No new boats could be hauled until they launched mine.  The sign on the wall said:  "No cash, No splash."  So I decided to use that to my advantage.

I refused to pay more than quoted, which turned into some pretty pathetic back and forth offering to "settle" the bill for somewhere in the middle. "Nope, remember how I asked you about how much it was going to cost to the work and you said 'at most'?"  Meanwhile the Travelift operator kept coming into the office saying "the 9:00 haulout is here, what do you want to do?"  Finally, I paid what was quoted and they splashed me.

Very refreshing to go to the DIY yard in Port Townsend and avoid these kinds of issues.  And glad you got good work at a fair price by Top to Bottom.

Patches
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mdidomenico

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Re: Replacing Cutlass - this seems outrageous
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2020, 01:17:45 PM »

* $500 - Labor (compared to the other estimate of $7K)
* $360 - New SS shaft (compared to $850)
* $120 - Split Coupler
* $310 - PSS seal (compared to $550)
* $50 - Cutlass

just merely as a point of reference since i just did the exact same thing here on the east coast.  my bill was about the same for the above.
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1989 Cat34 #856, original m-25xp

captran

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Re: Replacing Cutlass - this seems outrageous
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2020, 09:59:08 PM »

Wow.  Reading of your issues and replies makes me dizzy.  As to PSS, I bought Voyager in 2001 and had a dripless shaft seal installed.  (I had a regular stuffing coupling for 7 years on a Newport 30 and it was always hard to find the just right- not too tight and not too loose.) Had a new one installed in 2013 when they replaced the cutlass, which also led to them calling and saying that when they measured the shaft, it was bent. (I still wonder about that, as I had never noticed any vibration or anything, but went ahead and had it all done).  I have noticed that a small amount of the graphite (I think that's what the collar mates to) seems to wear off, leaving a line around the area, which makes me believe that it does wear.  I have also noticed that there are at times a few misty droplets of water.   (I put on about 100 hours per year cruising full time during the summer since owning her. )  The bit of graphite and mist has been that way ever since I've owned the boat.  I store my boat at North Harbor in Anacortes, and at least they let me change my own shaft zincs.
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Randy Thies
Voyager  1997 #1345
was Florida, now Anacortes Wa

Jim Hardesty

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Re: Replacing Cutlass - this seems outrageous
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2020, 04:30:41 AM »

Quote
(I had a regular stuffing coupling for 7 years on a Newport 30 and it was always hard to find the just right- not too tight and not too loose.)

When my stuffing box is difficult to find just the right adjustment I change the packing.  Has always worked for me.
Jim
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Jim Hardesty
2001 MKII hull #1570 M35BC  "Shamrock"
sailing Lake Erie
from Commodore Perry Yacht Club
Erie, PA

MeganoftheWaters

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Re: Replacing Cutlass - this seems outrageous
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2022, 07:41:13 PM »

As new C34 owners this spring we owe the folks on this thread (and ESPECIALLY Kable) a few beverages of choice. We had an identical experience at Seaview North and at Kable's recommendation hauled back in to work with Roger at Top to Bottom and he was wonderful. Seaview wanted us to spend upwards of 10-20k. I wouldn't trust them to do any work on our boat. We also had a good experience with TriCounty Diesel for work on our Universal M25XP.

If you guys are around Squalicum Harbor, please let us repay the $$$ your knowledge and experience saved us with a few cold ones!

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Uncharted Waters
1992 Catalaina 34 Mk 1.5
Bellingham, WA

kable

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Re: Replacing Cutlass - this seems outrageous
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2022, 09:05:30 PM »

I am glad this helped you out.

I for sure don't have any knowledge or experience, just lots of googling and reading c34.org.  I am a computer guy.  Haven't had a lot a chances to get my hands greasy and I tend to over think, over research and freeze in the headlights of "I can never do this, may as well sink the boat...."

Good to know about TriCounty and the Universal M25XP, do you have a mechanic name?  I don't have a local mechanic contact.  My brother-in-law helps but he is 2 hours away so don't like to lean on him too much.

Nice to know there are other C34 member/owners around the marina (Gate 6)
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1988 C34 #785 SR/WK Universal M25XP - "As We Wish" Bellingham, WA - San Juan Islands

waughoo

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Re: Replacing Cutlass - this seems outrageous
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2022, 10:51:14 PM »

Helpful news for us local to the PNW.  Thanks for sharing your experience.
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Alex - Seattle, WA
91 mk1.5 #1120
Std rig w/wing keel
Universal M35
Belafonte

MeganoftheWaters

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Re: Replacing Cutlass - this seems outrageous
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2022, 12:45:19 PM »

RE: Tri County the service manager's name is Jim and the mechanic we worked with is Wiley.
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Uncharted Waters
1992 Catalaina 34 Mk 1.5
Bellingham, WA

Catalina007

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Re: Replacing Cutlass - this seems outrageous
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2022, 04:16:49 AM »

 Not allowing you to change your own zinc anodes.... wow. 
« Last Edit: July 22, 2022, 04:17:17 AM by Catalina007 »
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