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Author Topic: Prop Shaft Question  (Read 649 times)

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Geoffreykwright

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Prop Shaft Question
« on: April 16, 2020, 11:42:07 AM »

Hi - a mechanic swapped out my prop shaft a few years back and only today sent me an invoice...the charge for parts seems very reasonable - but labour seems WAY out of whack at $2,700 CDN.  I've never used this guy before - so don't know his hourly rate, but at $80/hour (for sake of argument) that is 34 hours - nearly a full-time job for a week.  I have no clue the amount of work needed for such a procedure, but seems double what I was expecting.  I wanted to see if anyone on this forum had an idea of the amount of work required to replace a shaft.  If it sounds reasonable I'm fine - but if it sounds way to big, then I'll challenge him on the amount of labour.  Any input would be appreciated.  thanks in advance.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 12:12:46 PM by Geoffreykwright »
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Sundowner III
Catalina 34 Mk II Hull 1494 (Built 2000)
Toronto, CANADA

oldcatsailor

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Re: Prop Shaft Question
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2020, 12:39:43 PM »

I have changed my shaft and cotless bearing ,with help from this forum , 12 hours was a generous estimate
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Geoffreykwright

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Re: Prop Shaft Question
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2020, 12:51:39 PM »

oldcatsailor - thanks for the perspective...I should have added he did not swap out the cutlass bearing - only replaced the shaft.
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Sundowner III
Catalina 34 Mk II Hull 1494 (Built 2000)
Toronto, CANADA

Noah

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Re: Prop Shaft Question
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2020, 01:23:04 PM »

Aside from the nagging question who/why would someone send an invoice  “years” after the work was completed, (and the legality and enforceability of collecting on it so late after the fact) —how did he remove the shaft past the rudder without removing cutlass bearing? I have never been able to do that with the rudder and cutlass in place. Also, did he just install shaft, or remove old first, machine new shaft, lap fit prop, align engine and sea trial? Lots of steps possible.
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1990 hull #1014, San Diego, CA,  Fin Keel,
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Ron Hill

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Re: Prop Shaft Question
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2020, 02:45:36 PM »

Geo : A agree with Noah, I believe that it is impossible with a good cutless bearing inplace to change out a drive shaft.  Even with the cutless removed you just barely can slide the shaft by the rudder.  With the cutless in place the shaft will NOT slide!!!

I would say (from memory) that I removed the cutless, removed the old shaft, installed a new shaft and then installed a new cutless in less than 4/5 hours by myself.  I did have everything set up and ready to go.

A few thoughts
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Jon W

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Re: Prop Shaft Question
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2020, 02:51:52 PM »

Hi Geoff,
I had my OEM bronze prop shaft replaced with SST in 2015. The description of the work to do that on the invoice, plus the labor hours charged is below -

Replace drive shaft. Required removal of rudder. R&R shaft packing gland and clean gland. R&R stuffing box hose. Install new cutlass bearing. Replaced emergency tiller arm head. LABOR HOURS = 10 @ $90USD/hr

Engine alignment in slip. LABOR HOURS = 2.5 @ $90USD/hr

Fabricate prop shaft 1" x 57 1/4" (hard to read the dimensions on the invoice so don't use these for your boat) - $509USD
New SST tiller head emergency cap C34, 36, 38 - $155.51USD

Hope this helps.
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Jon W.
s/v Della Jean
Hull #493, 1987 MK 1, M25XP, Manson Supreme 35
San Diego, Ca

Ron Hill

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Re: Prop Shaft Question
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2020, 03:03:13 PM »

Geo :  It's too bad that Jon W didn't read some of the Mainsheet technotes or messages on this form.
 
BECAUSE You do NOT need to remove the rudder to replace the drive shaft!!  Much has been written on that topic!!  :cry4`


A few thoughts
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Ron, Apache #788

Jon W

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Re: Prop Shaft Question
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2020, 03:35:36 PM »

The emergency tiller cap was broken. The folks I hired are very good, honest, and always busy. They wouldn’t do anything they didn’t have to.

In response to your assumption - I had read the messages and Tech Notes on this topic, and many others. While they are helpful, some are more opinion than fact.
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Jon W.
s/v Della Jean
Hull #493, 1987 MK 1, M25XP, Manson Supreme 35
San Diego, Ca

Ron Hill

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Re: Prop Shaft Question
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2020, 09:30:12 AM »

Jon W : The emergency tiller cap on a MKI can be removed/replaced (I've done it many times - in the water and on the hard) without removing the rudder!! 

Some are more opinion than fact   The C34 Mainsheet Tech Editors will NOT allow opinion to be construed as fact!! These published articles are also reviewed by Gerry Douglas Catalina Yachts VP and designer of the C34!!

A few thoughts
« Last Edit: April 18, 2020, 09:38:43 AM by Ron Hill »
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Ron, Apache #788

Jon W

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Re: Prop Shaft Question
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2020, 05:13:08 PM »

Ron Hill : You don't know the details of my situation, but good for you removing your emergency tiller cap many times in the water. Odd that you needed to remove the emergency tiller cap many times, but I don't know the details of your situation.

The C34 Mainsheet Tech Editors will NOT allow opinion to be construed as fact!! The following is a portion of the text from the Tech Note Pulling A Keel Stepped Mast. "...I found there are two preferred methods, ...haul out the boat onto the hard and use a crane, or wait for low tide and use a large forklift and leave the hull in the water..."

While it's a fact that those two methods are viable, it's an opinion that those are the two preferred methods. Why, because they may be preferred for his yard, but they aren't the preferred method at the yard I use.

The message board is full of opinion ie "YBYC". That's what makes this forum so great, lots of different ideas to help solve problems.

Recall the intent of my initial response was to provide an documented example to help Geoff determine if the 34 hours of labor he was charged for labor was reasonable. My experience would say 34 hours is not reasonable. However, YBYC
« Last Edit: April 18, 2020, 05:20:51 PM by Jon W »
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Jon W.
s/v Della Jean
Hull #493, 1987 MK 1, M25XP, Manson Supreme 35
San Diego, Ca

Ron Hill

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Re: Prop Shaft Question
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2020, 03:17:48 PM »

Jon W : To ease your mind, I pulled the tiller cap a few time just to check and make sure - if my fix on sealing the rudder from letting water migrate in to it - really worked!!??!!  My fix did!!

On the hourly charges, I was personally was shocked!!  If I couldn't realign an engine that had previously been aligned just for a new drive shaft in 20 - 30 minutes ... I would fire that mechanic! 

On you pulling the mast example.  I've done it BOTH ways.  Maybe if a yard that has a helicopter?  that will work too!!  I've carried a few sling loads of supplies, vehicles and downed aircraft, but never a mast.

 Have many more, but Enough said - On thoughts  :santa
 
« Last Edit: April 20, 2020, 02:42:52 PM by Ron Hill »
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Ron, Apache #788

Jon W

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Re: Prop Shaft Question
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2020, 05:24:14 PM »

Ron Hill : If you’re talking about my mechanic, your comparing apples and oranges. Just the round trip drive by car to my slip is more than 30-45 minutes. Glad you’ve used both methods to pull your mast. It is still opinion not fact that those are the two preferred methods for pulling the mast. We are clearly having two different conversations.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2020, 05:34:48 PM by Jon W »
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Jon W.
s/v Della Jean
Hull #493, 1987 MK 1, M25XP, Manson Supreme 35
San Diego, Ca

Geoffreykwright

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Re: Prop Shaft Question
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2020, 01:52:52 PM »

All - many thanks for all the advice.  The guy cut the old (broken) bronze shaft out (it was broken where it attaches to the transmission) and replaced it with a SS shaft - i gave him the specs from Catalina the he had it machined to match the specs given to me by Gori.  I was wrong - he did replace the cutlass bearing (saw reference to that in the parts).  No alignment; no sea trial.  I would not tend to argue about an hour-or-two amiss, but based on all of your sage wisdom, seems like he is overstating the amount of work he actually did.  Also - I know he did NOT remove the rudder.

Anyway - thanks again for your words of wisdom...always appreciated.
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Sundowner III
Catalina 34 Mk II Hull 1494 (Built 2000)
Toronto, CANADA

Ron Hill

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Re: Prop Shaft Question
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2020, 02:47:34 PM »

Word to All : If you replace your drive shaft - consider installing a flexible coupling rather than spending $$ on machining the end of the new shaft.  The new flexible coupling negates future engine alignments and does not cost that much, and is easy to install!!

A thought   :clap
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Ron, Apache #788

scgunner

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Re: Prop Shaft Question
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2020, 07:12:13 AM »

Ron,

I'm headed toward some prop shaft work myself so I'm interested in the flex coupling. I have some questions if you don't mind; do you have one yourself, who is the manufacturer, what is the cost?
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Kevin Quistberg                                                 Top Gun 1987 Mk 1 Hull #273
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