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Author Topic: Winterization anit-freeze for two winters  (Read 547 times)

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Roc

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Winterization anit-freeze for two winters
« on: November 15, 2019, 12:36:33 PM »

Hi everyone,
This past season we didn't put Sea Life in the water.  With other plans over the summer, we decided to take a hiatus.  Everything was winterized for last winter and over the summer, we did not do or change anything to the systems.  I'm thinking since everything has been untouched, we can go through another winter.  Any thoughts if I'm missing something?
Thanks!!
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Roc - "Sea Life" 2000 MKII #1477.  Rock Hall, MD

KWKloeber

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Re: Winterization anit-freeze for two winters
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2019, 05:38:04 PM »

Roc
The only thing you’re missing — is one season of sailing.
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Jim Hardesty

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Re: Winterization anit-freeze for two winters
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2019, 04:31:29 AM »

Roc,
What about the transmission.  I believe it's recommended to overfill for extended storage.  FWIW my previous boat was in storage for 15 years before I purchased, except for mud wasps nest that I kept finding for years, the boat never gave me a bit of problems.
Here's to a great sailing season, year after next.
Jim
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Jim Hardesty
2001 MKII hull #1570 M35BC  "Shamrock"
sailing Lake Erie
from Commodore Perry Yacht Club
Erie, PA

Roland Gendreau

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Re: Winterization anit-freeze for two winters
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2019, 07:17:31 PM »

I would think the engine and potable water systems should be fine.  I assume you are managing bilge water accumulation and have properly stored the batteries.  I would also make sure the boat is well ventilated and the opportunity for mold is minimized.  And make sure no critters have found a home.
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Roland Gendreau
1992 MK 1.5
Gratitude #1183
Bristol, RI

Bill Shreeves

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Re: Winterization anit-freeze for two winters
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2019, 08:00:34 AM »

is the raw water impeller still installed?  I read some time ago its ideal to remove over the winter because they can become more difficult to remove the longer they're installed.  Since having read that, I remove mine after winterizing and leave the cover off the pump to remind me to reinstall when I commission her.  This isn't a big deal but might be worth considering.
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The only thing that always works on an old boat is the owner...

Bill Shreeves
s/v "Begnnings" 1987 Shoal Draft #333
M25XPB, Worton Creek, MD

Roc

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Re: Winterization anit-freeze for two winters
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2019, 02:53:11 PM »

Thanks for the tips...  the transmission is overfilled.  I do it every fall, so that's set.  I plan on changing the impeller in the spring, but good tip about difficulty getting out.  My guess is the rubber could get stuck in the housing.  I guess I'll see.  The batteries are topped off.  I was there two weeks ago to give the boat an overall check and had the charger plugged in.  I have a custom canvas winter cover which does not trap in moisture like a plastic shrink wrap could.  Also, I've kept up with keeping the damp rid moisture absorbers changed throughout the summer and I also used tea tree oil.  I freshened both those a couple weeks ago.  Never get water in the bilge, deck stepped mast.  Just in case, I pour a few cups of pink antifreeze in the bilge.

« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 02:57:05 PM by Roc »
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Roc - "Sea Life" 2000 MKII #1477.  Rock Hall, MD

KWKloeber

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Re: Winterization anit-freeze for two winters
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2019, 12:40:40 PM »

>>I read some time ago its ideal to remove over the winter because they can become more difficult to remove the longer they're installed<<

It’s that the impeller fins can become “set” at the bend they’re in, in the body if left installed. Not good.
Also, put some SuperLube on the shaft so the impeller hub doesn’t get stuck on it. You can remove the whole shaft to remove the impeller, no problem (presuming it’s an Oberdorfer pump.)
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Ron Hill

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Re: Winterization anit-freeze for two winters
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2019, 04:30:34 PM »

Guys : I posted (many years ago) to remove the impeller, inspect it and I squirt it with silicone to keep it nimble. Then in the spring turn it around so the blades get to bend in the opposite direction than they did the previous year!!

A few thoughts  :thumb:
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Bill Shreeves

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Re: Winterization anit-freeze for two winters
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2019, 04:14:04 AM »

>>I read some time ago its ideal to remove over the winter because they can become more difficult to remove the longer they're installed<<

It’s that the impeller fins can become “set” at the bend they’re in, in the body if left installed. Not good.
Also, put some SuperLube on the shaft so the impeller hub doesn’t get stuck on it. You can remove the whole shaft to remove the impeller, no problem (presuming it’s an Oberdorfer pump.)

I thought the concern was that the impeller itself can become stuck on the shaft.  Especially with the Sherwood since you can pop the shaft out with the Oberdorfer to replace the impeller.  BTW, I've found the Oberdorfer to be a nice upgrade from the Sherwood on M25XPB.
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The only thing that always works on an old boat is the owner...

Bill Shreeves
s/v "Begnnings" 1987 Shoal Draft #333
M25XPB, Worton Creek, MD

KWKloeber

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Re: Winterization anit-freeze for two winters
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2019, 05:32:06 PM »


I thought the concern was that the impeller itself can become stuck on the shaft.  Especially with the Sherwood since you can pop the shaft out with the Oberdorfer to replace the impeller.  BTW, I've found the Oberdorfer to be a nice upgrade from the Sherwood on M25XPB.


It's both, but even lubing the shaft can't help the issue of the fins breaking.
So -- it will pump whether or not the impeller is seized on the shart -- but the unseen and unknown problem of broken fins is an issue because, well, no fins no pumping.
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Robert Mann

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Re: Winterization anit-freeze for two winters
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2019, 12:24:48 PM »

Roc, to reinforce some of the comments above.  My MkII stayed winterized for 4 years while we were posted overseas.  She stayed in the water, as we are in fresh water and in Georgia, however, winterization is still required.  We ran pink, RV potable, anti freeze through all relevant systems, head, freshwater system and engine raw water side.  We have AC so we drained and blew through that system, no AF.  All went well, all systems started and came back on line, smelly freshwater on the hot water side needed attention but there's plenty of posts about that.  The thing I forgot was indeed the impeller in the raw water pump, I was running the boat in gear tethered to the slip to check the dripless stuffing box and luckily saw the temperature rise abnormally.  Check out the picture and you will be a Ron Hill disciple! I have often wondered if certain rubber/neoprene type compounds react to pink AF.  I have seen joker valve issues in the past on an Ericson 26 after leaving pink AF in the head.
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Ted Pounds

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Re: Winterization anit-freeze for two winters
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2019, 03:56:16 PM »

I read somewhere that pink AF does degrade rubber. That’s why I always removed my impeller after winterizing.
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Ted Pounds
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Roc

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Re: Winterization anit-freeze for two winters
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2019, 04:55:24 PM »

Thanks Robert for the post.  4 years is quite a long time for things to be idle.  When I winterize, I don't cut corners and use much more pink AF than most people I've seen.  Every spring, things start up well.  Hoping this coming spring is no different!
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Roc - "Sea Life" 2000 MKII #1477.  Rock Hall, MD

Jim Hardesty

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Re: Winterization anit-freeze for two winters
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2019, 04:53:44 AM »

Quote
I read somewhere that pink AF does degrade rubber.

In Erie PA the common practice is to use the pink (-50) only in the water systems.  Use the green or is it blue (-100) in the mechanical systems, engine, generator, air conditioner etc.  Was told it was for corrosion prevention and better for the seals.  Was surprised one winter to see a half jug of pink frozen at about -10.  The label says -50 is when coper pipe will burst.
Jim
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Jim Hardesty
2001 MKII hull #1570 M35BC  "Shamrock"
sailing Lake Erie
from Commodore Perry Yacht Club
Erie, PA

Robert Mann

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Re: Winterization anit-freeze for two winters
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2019, 02:58:25 PM »

Roc
We were actually gone for 6 years.  The boat was "awakened", just the engine, to get the bottom done 4 years in.  The systems all tolerated the dormancy well, however I believe the shower drain pump is toast and needs to be replaced.  As we were leaving the 4D batteries were ready to be replaced, we put a Grp 24 automotive battery in the system to keep bilge pumps on line and we also left it charging (Ron will shoot me).  This battery lasted nearly 8 years, go figure.  I replaced it with 2 x Grp 31 deep cycles from SAMS, which are also doing very well.

Jim
if it gets to -10 here in GA I am heading further south.  I run the pink antifreeze through the raw water side so we can sail on the few warm days we have in the winter 50 degs!!  I do believe glycol is better for seals and corrosion prevention, but toxic for the raw water side of boats left in the water. 

My Grp 31s are benefiting from your temp sensor, holds them below the gassing point really well, thanks again.
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Catalina 34 MkII, Indigostar, 2002 no 1622
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