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Author Topic: Starting problem  (Read 616 times)

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Phil Spicer

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Starting problem
« on: July 17, 2019, 01:39:39 PM »

   Had starter and alt checked out as preventative maintenance. Rebuilt as needed so all should be good. Checked that almost hidden inline fuse and cleaned it and the holder. Added a thin coat of dieelectric grease and  put it together. The first time I hit the starter button I got nothing. Did see volt meter drop. Hit the starter button another time or two and fired up.
   Fired right up last week and went for a sail. When I tried to start up to motor in I got nothing. Had to push starter button 3 or 4 times then the starter kicked in. Same thing yesterday. Had to hit the button several times before I got contact.
   Tomorrow I will clean the contacts on the starter. Pulled the panel and checked for loose contacts, nothing.
   Yes, I removed the gummy bear plugs. Where do I go from here? New starter button? Jack up my documentation
numbers and run a new boat under them?  I turn wrenches, I do glass work, but not wires. Please point me in the right direction.
   If I replace the starter button, how many amps should the button handle? I see 10, 25,and 35 amp starter buttons.
   Thank you for the help and suggestions
     Phil
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 02:03:55 PM by Phil Spicer »
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Phil & Marsha Spicer-Dock at Sandusky Sailing Club-
 Sail Sandusky Bay,Erie Islands,& Western Basin of Lake Erie.
Steamboat is #789 Tall Rig-Wing Keel-Our picture is what we see from our dock which is a view of Cedar Point Amusement Park"The Roller Coast

KWKloeber

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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2019, 02:09:33 PM »

Phil

Did the shop replace the starter solenoid?  Should have as long as the starter was out -- a very cheap insurance policy.

It can be the S wire circuit - what voltage are you getting on the "S" wire - both when it's connected and unconnected to the solenoid terminal?   When it occurs again you could bypass the whole "S" circuit by jumping directly from the "B" post on the solenoid to the "S" terminal.  See if that eliminates the problem.

Or it can be anything uphill of that (start switch or key switch.)   It's really best to replace the barrel fuse with a weathertight (10 gauge) ATC or ATM fuse holder.    And that quick disconnect on the S terminal wire is problematic over time.  https://groups.io/g/catalina30/wiki/The-%22S-Wire%22-%28starter-solenoid%29-Circuit-and-Engine-No-Crank-Issues

Possibly low battery voltage?
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
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mark_53

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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2019, 02:42:53 PM »

Do you have a dedicated starting battery?  If not, it sounds like you have the OEM starter wiring problem and should install a dedicated starting battery.  The wires are to long and to small to work reliably.  This is how I did mine.

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,8790.msg63977.html#msg63977
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1989 C34 Mk1 M25XP

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Phil Spicer

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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2019, 02:54:35 PM »

   Ken: 2 new batteries last year. New solenoid was put on the starter. I do not know the voltage on the "S" wire. I do plan to change the fuse to the new type and use the water proof holder. Saw that yesterday at marina store. It was a 12 gauge wire. Is that ok? It looks like
that is larger than the fuse wire.
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Phil & Marsha Spicer-Dock at Sandusky Sailing Club-
 Sail Sandusky Bay,Erie Islands,& Western Basin of Lake Erie.
Steamboat is #789 Tall Rig-Wing Keel-Our picture is what we see from our dock which is a view of Cedar Point Amusement Park"The Roller Coast

Phil Spicer

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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2019, 02:58:01 PM »

   Mark: I have the standard set-up from 1988. Always start with switch set to ALL.
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Phil & Marsha Spicer-Dock at Sandusky Sailing Club-
 Sail Sandusky Bay,Erie Islands,& Western Basin of Lake Erie.
Steamboat is #789 Tall Rig-Wing Keel-Our picture is what we see from our dock which is a view of Cedar Point Amusement Park"The Roller Coast

KWKloeber

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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2019, 03:12:31 PM »

Phil

The light gauge S wire is an issue. Some (mine) was 16 gauge which is RIDICULOUS  .
It should be 10 ga wire so a 10 ga tinned holder (theyre a little tough to locate sometimes) in case you replace the S wire or do a new harness down the road.
Im looking at like 50 of them right now.  If you want PM me your address and Id be happy to mail one tomorrow.
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

mark_53

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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2019, 03:36:15 PM »

   Mark: I have the standard set-up from 1988. Always start with switch set to ALL.

I had mostly original wiring.  I was always unsure if it would start.  After a couple of tows, I installed the start battery and no problems since then. And it will be much easier to diagnose problems. If you don't have the skills you can pay someone but will cost big bucks and you be unsure of what you have.

I would suggest reading up on the information on this site and do it yourself.
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1989 C34 Mk1 M25XP

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Stu Jackson

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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2019, 04:54:36 PM »

>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Checked that almost hidden inline fuse and cleaned it and the holder. Added a thin coat of dieelectric grease and  put it together. The first time I hit the starter button I got nothing. Did see volt meter drop. Hit the starter button another time or two and fired up. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Grease on the fuse ends?
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Phil Spicer

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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2019, 05:13:52 AM »

   Stu:
     Dielectrical grease repels moisture & protects electrical connections against corrosion. Always talk about corrosion on that inline fuse.
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Phil & Marsha Spicer-Dock at Sandusky Sailing Club-
 Sail Sandusky Bay,Erie Islands,& Western Basin of Lake Erie.
Steamboat is #789 Tall Rig-Wing Keel-Our picture is what we see from our dock which is a view of Cedar Point Amusement Park"The Roller Coast

Ed Shankle

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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2019, 06:11:41 AM »

Phil,
Ive had that problem in the past. The first time it was resolved when I replaced the engine control panel (tach had quit), which of course included a new start button and key switch. The 2nd time was with the new panel. The wire from the key switch to the start button on the back of the panel had come loose. No problem since after tightening.
Checking the back panel connections and replacing the start button might be good, quick, cheap steps to try. Good luck.
Regards,
Ed
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Ed Shankle
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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2019, 06:34:54 AM »

I have had the same problem.  Cleaning the connections on the battery and the ground on the engine block seems to help.  Might not solve the problem, but is an easy and cheap start.
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Phil Spicer

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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2019, 07:15:22 AM »

  Plan to meet family for a sail today. Will check fuse connection and starter wires when we get to boat. Next will be a new starter button. Key switch is 3 to 5
years old. Also will clean those connections on back of panel. Will try one thing at a time
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Phil & Marsha Spicer-Dock at Sandusky Sailing Club-
 Sail Sandusky Bay,Erie Islands,& Western Basin of Lake Erie.
Steamboat is #789 Tall Rig-Wing Keel-Our picture is what we see from our dock which is a view of Cedar Point Amusement Park"The Roller Coast

Ron Hill

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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2019, 08:19:24 AM »

Phil : On those inline fuses I either change the entire holder or replace it with a "stab-in" fuse/holder. 
You might also shine up the battery connections on the starter solenoid.

Check out the starter button with a jumper wire.


A few thoughts
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 08:21:54 AM by Ron Hill »
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Hugh17

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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2019, 08:28:19 AM »

I had the same problem and a local mechanic told me it was a weak starter so I ordered a new one. He put it on and we had the same problem. Then he checked and found that we had low voltage at the starter. We also had low voltage at the batteries. I put in new batteries and was good to go. The mechanic was so upset that he had failed to check the voltage at the batteries that he refused to charge me for his service. I ended up with a spare starter which was fine. I paid him part of his fee even though he argued against it. Bottom line, first thing to do is check your batteries. Next check your main battery connections, then work toward the starter.

You can also have a bad ground so run a test or spare ground wire through the cabin from the starter to the batteries.
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Phil Spicer

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Re: Starting problem
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2019, 10:26:40 AM »

Ron,  New stabbing fuse holder is on its way.  Will try to check all connections today Phil
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Phil & Marsha Spicer-Dock at Sandusky Sailing Club-
 Sail Sandusky Bay,Erie Islands,& Western Basin of Lake Erie.
Steamboat is #789 Tall Rig-Wing Keel-Our picture is what we see from our dock which is a view of Cedar Point Amusement Park"The Roller Coast
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