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Author Topic: Prospective Owner Questions  (Read 1748 times)

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SV Sand Pebble

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Re: Prospective Owner Questions
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2019, 11:37:57 AM »

  I don't think I will be winning any races for 10 years Lol.
 Outside of some small boat rentals and a summer collage sailing course I have very little experience. One thing I may have going for me is I was an industrial electrical contractor for 30 years till a motor fell on my foot. I fell with good research and the help from good people I could navigate many necessary repairs. I think I will mostly take things slow adding money to the bank account as I gain knowledge. Yes do my training with the old sails and rigging in local waters close to shore.
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Noah

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Re: Prospective Owner Questions
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2019, 12:13:07 PM »

Read/study the “Critical Upgrades” section on our website, then check with the surveyor and seller that these tasks have been completed. These items include, but are not limited to: alternator bracket, traveler bolts, and engine wiring harness plugs. Also, on pre-89 boats, there is wood in the keel stub joint and some have had issues with water intrusion/rot there and in the mast step. Have your surveyor check those areas for cracks and signs of water weeping/softness. Hope all checks out well.  8)
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1990 hull #1014, San Diego, CA,  Fin Keel,
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sailr4

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Re: Prospective Owner Questions
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2019, 01:03:52 PM »

I like the fact that it only had one owner, I think that is a huge plus on an older boat. It only take one PO to mess one up.

I think I had that PO.  :cry4`

Rob
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Rob Fowler,1989 C34 #889 Tall/Wing, M25XP - No Worries, Coronado, CA

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SV Sand Pebble

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Re: Prospective Owner Questions
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2019, 02:46:24 PM »

  Thanks Noah, I will keep all your great information with me for the day of survey and again reference this site for as much information as I can. My birthday was just around the corner so my girlfriend bought me Nigel's book mechanical and electrical for boats and also his sailboat book. We thought it would be wise to have some good old books so if we ever had a boat problem and no internet connection.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 02:50:26 PM by svtranscendence »
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Stu Jackson

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Re: Prospective Owner Questions
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2019, 07:13:34 PM »

George,

I just got back from a short cruise without internet.  Yea!  :clap

Noah's right, read Critical Upgrades. Print it out, memorize it. :shock:  These issues are specific to C34s.  Forget those books for now.

One of the Critical Upgrades suggests doing a search on the word "weblog."  One of them is this gem:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,663.0.html  And Steve followed up with a Year Two report, which comes up on the weblog search.  And many other skippers have done so.  Please read them. 

Again:  These issues are specific to C34s:D

THAT is the kind of information NO surveyor (even a superb one) is gonna know about, but are VALUABLE (literally) to YOU.  Rigging is rigging, sails are sails, but stanchion vent leaks are specific to our boats (and other Catalinas).

Armed with those JUICY TIDBITS you will have an upper hand in any negotiations, because you will know specific things to look for.

Electronics and batteries are consumables.  Learn to live with it.  I am a neanderthal who still lives without an integrated chartplotter, just a handheld Garmin GPSMap 76Cx.  How can I survive?!?  I sailed my boat from San Francisco to Canada with that horrible little non-chartplotter!!!  One replaces batteries every five years or so, longer when you learn how to take care of them, but is NOT an issue when buying a boat.  In fact, you'd be better off with almost dead ones so you can figure out what YOU want to replace them with.

But a "broken" fridge system IS something to "deal" with.  And I have a link I can share with you where a respected skipper uses dorm fridges off an inverter and it works, energy-wise.  Many ways to skin the cat, but only after you "get there."

This website and forum have "collected" things to look for, and the Critical Upgrades is THE place to start, then the weblogs.

Be like Santa:  make a LIST.   8)

In fact, post it here and we'll help you with it.  :D

Good luck.
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

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SV Sand Pebble

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Re: Prospective Owner Questions
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2019, 08:24:00 AM »


  Welcome back Stu, I hope you enjoyed your sail.

  Saturday was an adventure, we stopped off and looked at a 1986 Ericson 35-3 on our way to look at the Catalina I was talking about. We found it to be nice but we thought it really did not have a birth that could handle two adults one being 6'3". Then it was back off to see the Catalina 34 again, we found the boat armed with the advice from the members here to be in very good condition. I brought a flashlight and opened up and poked my head and hands everywhere. You know what? After getting some advice here and going through the boat again I found myself exhausted from thinking about all the things I should be thinking about Lol, really. I sat down with the broker and shared my thoughts, he walked me through the boat buying process as I mentioned to him that I seen one more Catalina 34 pop on to the radar screen just that morning. The new Catalina a 1986 was just up the coast an hour. What was different about this boat was the rigging and sails were new, new upholstery and the refrigerator just received a new re fridgeration unit, I'm not sure what that's called, maybe the condensing unit or something. So the broker is trying to setup and opportunity for us to view this possible new boat choice mid week or next weekend. I sense it is good to allow the broker who has the listing for the first Catalina talked about here to see that we are not stuck on just one boat. Who knows maybe the figure I hinted at below the boat owners best and lowest price will make its way back to the owner and I will get a surprise phone call. Wishful thinking but it is never a bad idea to plant a seed if its authentic. So armed with even more information ( critical upgrades) pointed out by you and Noah I will be even more ready to take on the task of the exhausting boat buying process, fun but exhausting. 

  Thanks again everyone.                                         
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scgunner

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Re: Prospective Owner Questions
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2019, 04:39:13 PM »

    George,

        Unless it's way overpriced or way or your budget boat #2 sounds like the one you, a good piece of advice I got years ago was always buy the nicest boat you can afford. The thing with upgrades is you'll enjoy them while you have the boat but you'll never get the money you spent for them back when you sell the boat. It sounds like boat #2 already has a lot of the stuff you want and need.                                                                                                                                                                                                         An example of what I'm talking about, let's say boat #2 spent $10,000 to do those upgrades, while it will probably increase the value of the boat a few grand there's no way it increases the value of the boat by $10,000. So if you buy boat #1 it will cost you $10,000 to do those upgrades, not to mention the lead time it will take to order, install or have installed the upgrades. If you get boat #2 you can enjoy those upgrades the minute you take possession of the boat for less money.
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Kevin Quistberg                                                 Top Gun 1987 Mk 1 Hull #273

Stu Jackson

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Re: Prospective Owner Questions
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2019, 05:34:52 PM »

George,

Exhausting?  Understood, but hardly something to be concerned about.  Look at it this way:  You are one of the most fortunate prospective C34 owners on the planet!  Why?  Because with what you've shared with us, you have possibly TWO, count 'em, TWO, C34s that could qualify as "The One!"  Many of us looked for our boats for extended periods of time before we found that one that was right for us.  We spent an entire YEAR looking at NOTHING BUT Catalina 34s.  We saw some sorry examples of neglect, abuse and stupidity.  In your "short time" you've found two.

Sounds like good karma to me.   :clap :clap :clap

Keep up the good work.

Before I forget: 
1)  engine hours - make note of them
2)  the '86 boat will have an M25 engine, where the newer boat should have the M25XP.  Differences?  2 more HP on the XP but essentially the identical machine except for the 3 inch HX and the improved alternator bracket (in the Critical Upgrades).  I "made my M25" into an XP by adding the bigger HX and the alternator bracket.
3)  check both for an ammeter in the cockpit, needs to be a voltmeter

Good luck, happy viewing.

Take pictures before you start confusing the two of them!  :shock:
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

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SV Sand Pebble

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Re: Prospective Owner Questions
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2019, 08:38:28 PM »

  Kevin, thanks for the advice about the depreciation of electronic equipment after installing them on a boat. It looks like you better love a boat and plan on keeping it for a good while if you are going to do a lot of upgrades.
  Now speaking about loving a boat, looking and chasing after the right boat reminds me of when I was young chasing girls, your on the hunt looking for that right girl forgetting the true fun is the journey its self. I better keep on reminding myself about that as I worry about taking to much time to make an offer and losing a possible good choice (fun). OK I'm reminding myself again its about the journey :)

  Stu, the second boat I was talking about the one the broker was going to investagate for me, the one that maybe to good to be true maybe to good to be true. The broker said he made some calls, he said one problem was the owner had an offer but would only move $1000.00 from his asking price of $39,000.00. It was also said that the owner has no proof of the timeline of upgrades, even when the last time the haul was painted. It seems he has no paper trail. I guess a Savoy skilled sailor, not me would be able to investagate for his or her self the truth of these matters. One more thought if I allow my mind off the leash, my broker has the listing on the beautiful but none upgraded boat but the other boat is an hour away with half the commission. I really should have better faith in my fellow man, I do, he appears to be a good man. I will proceed with caution. Everything is on hold to this coming Friday. I hope to share and learn more here on this adventure.

  George   
« Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 09:08:26 PM by svtranscendence »
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Stu Jackson

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Re: Prospective Owner Questions
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2019, 08:42:47 PM »

Good maintenance records, with dates, engine hours and service performed indicates a certain amount of care that would most likely be exhibited in the rest of the efforts related to the boat.
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

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SV Sand Pebble

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Re: Prospective Owner Questions
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2019, 08:46:06 PM »


  I totally agree with your last reply Stu, I wonder how much of all the good records and good service is possible in the real world. I guess only with a hidden gem.
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Ekutney

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Re: Prospective Owner Questions
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2019, 08:42:51 AM »

I bought a 1986 C34 in 2016, the PO had it for 27 years & upgraded to a larger boat.  This forum was extremely helpful with many of the projects I did to include:
Replace exhaust riser, water lift muffler & exhaust hose
Clean 3" heat exchanger
Replace all engine hoses
Replace scupper hoses
Replace all fresh water hoses
Replace fresh water pump
Replace water heater
Replace Marlon thru hulls with bronze seacocks
Traveler thru bolt
Install Cruiseair AC unit


The PO did a good job of keeping the boat clean but most systems were original & I agree 100% that you're better off buying a boat where the upgrades have been done (ONLY if there were done correctly!!)  I sail the Chesapeake & what I have discovered is there are more EXPERTS than I thought possible in the Marine industry & very few actually know how to get back to you when they promise.

Good luck & using this forum to get good data is the best path I have found.
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Ed Kutney
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scgunner

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Re: Prospective Owner Questions
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2019, 09:59:21 AM »

     George,

       It sounds like the boat you're looking at(boat#1)is "Maineac", I know the boat it's on dock 8 in Alamitos Bay, I know this because until a couple months ago my boat "Top Gun" was on dock 8, it's now on dock 12. "Maineac" has been on the market for at least several months, so I don't think you need to be in a big hurry to make a decision on this boat.

        I did a quick look on the internet and what I found was from Oxnard to San Diego there are a lot of C34s for sale. The nicely equipped and maintained boats seem to be around 39K. "Maineac" is not one of these boats, what it appears to be is an honest, original(no visible upgrades)and hopefully well maintained boat. It looks like it gets sailed(a good thing), as opposed to a boat that just sits(a bad thing), I've seen it in Avalon before. The thing to remember is you have time, "Maineac" isn't going anywhere, I'd recommend looking at 2 or 3 more boats at least, especially a couple of those nice 39K boats. It'll give you a better idea of the difference between "Maineac" and a 39K boat and if you want to spend the money up front or not.

        Another thing to keep in mind is if you do buy "Maineac" remember the slip doesn't come with it. You should run over to the marina office and sign up for a slip, there's probably a waiting list and when you get a slip you'll almost certainly wind up in Shoreline.
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Kevin Quistberg                                                 Top Gun 1987 Mk 1 Hull #273

SV Sand Pebble

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Re: Prospective Owner Questions
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2019, 07:52:36 PM »

    Ekutney  air conditioning, nice. I'm sure the owner of the boat that is mostly original has some unmentioned remove and replaced parts that I will find out about later.

    Scgunner, your right about boat one, yes slip 52. I'm new to buying my first sailboat as an owner, I have looked at maybe a dozen boats now and I remain surprised as to the condition of the interior of the boat. When you go down below its immaculate, you swear you were in a new boat, the wood work appears perfect. The engine is very clean, no leaks, the main wire harness I do not know if it was replaced but its condition is very very good. I have very little experience, none with salt water but working as an industrial electrical contractor for 30 years the wiring on the engine harness looks great. Mostly on machines wires become oil soaked especially on hydraulic equipment causing the wires to puff up. Looking at the boat twice I notice the bilge empty and completely clean and dry. about face height above the dinning room table there is a bolt/screw going into the mast. The mast is painted white and I noticed the paint bubbling around the screw as if there was some corrosion setting in a little bit, its in my notes. The surface of the boat, the deck and the haul appears to the amateur eye to be in near perfect condition accept for a quarter size crazing I think you call it, next to the cockpit seat hinge bolt, its very little but I noted it. ON this boat a big thing to me is the re fridgeration unit needing service and will be noted and talked about if I offer on this boat.
  There is actually a few  slips available to close to scooner or later, better then nothing but you right 8-52 will not be available to me if I buy that boat. Yes I am thinking about going to Oxnard to look at the 1986 Catalina 34 Splash Dance, its a lot better equipped yet I have noticed often better equipped boats this size have a tendency to have a lot more use and wear. I'm sure some where was the excited new sailor with money who put in a lot of upgrades then became dis inchanted, OK, where are you boat, :) 
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 08:00:26 PM by svtranscendence »
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Stu Jackson

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Re: Prospective Owner Questions
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2019, 08:08:49 PM »

George,

I think I mentioned that we looked at only C34s for an entire year.  At this rate you'll catch up.

What I learned by looking at multiple presentations of the same if not identical product, is that one gets very good at learning the details one should look for.  :D

I found it helped immeasurably in determining the quality of my final choice.
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

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