Messages

Just a quick thank you note.  My electrical upgrade plans closely parallel Jon's.  I've been lurking as this long thread has evolved.  Today, I reviewed the entire thread again and updated my own schematic and notes.  Jon's great evolving diagrams, accompanied by everyone's thoughts, have been truly educational.  I've been schooled  .

Dan
Ennui Went #159

Thanks Ken and Stu.  I did some more research on manufacturers' sites and they recommend installing the accumulator tank just down stream of the pump.  I may try to make up a tall thin tank that will fit behind the double sink.

Dan

Accumulator?

I haven't figured that out, yet.  Because the accumulator's function is to reduce cycling of the electric pump, am I right that I could plumb it in pretty much anywhere in the cold line(s) from the electric pump to the head faucet?  And, that will then be effective for both the cold and hot water lines?

Dan

I'm not following why you have an unvalved cold water supply line tee'd over to the hot manifold?

It's not a T.  It's a Y valve.  For my heater bypass, I set the Y valve to by-pass the heater.  To prevent antifreeze from backing into the heater from the hot manifold, I then shot off the hot manifold valve on the line from the heater to the manifold.

Dan

[Completely Unnecessary Plumbing Upgrade]

I now think the Subject of this thread should be changed to Completely Unnecessary Plumbing Upgrade.

Explanation:  I am retired with too much time on my hands.

Okay, I've been at work in the workshop and on the computer.  I've made four manifolds and brackets.  They are: Intake, Cold, Hot, and Head.  Here's a photo:



What fun, my son loaded Visio on my computer.  Here is a schematic of my planned plumbing changes:



Finally, here is a Sketchup drawing showing where the Intake, Cold and Hot manifolds will likely be installed.  The view is top down looking at the galley counter top.  Part of what I am doing with this upgrade is making room for my AC pump.



Feel free to tell me this is unnecessary.  But, necessity was never a criteria for this project.  Feel free to send any other comments, observations or suggestions.

Having fun in Wisconsin,

Dan
Ennui Went #159

From Stu:

"Yes, in both.  Think of what happens when either is off when the other is on.  Check valves sometimes come with pumps, but rarely for this purpose."

I wondered whether the "non-operating" pump would act as a check valve when the other pump is in operation.  Because I was just in the innards of the foot pump, I can imagine that it's internal valves will not let water (moving under pressure from the electric pump) flow backwards through the pump.  I don't have the experience to know whether the impeller of the electric pump will be as effective when the foot pump is operating.  My thinking is the water will follow the path of least resistance, and the impeller will provide some resistance.  I may mock this up in the workshop to test it out.  I'll report out my findings.

Both pumps will feed into a "cold manifold."  I plan to run separate lines to each destination (in lieu of the current "trunk and branch" system).  So, the cold manifold will have outputs for:  hot water heater, galley faucet, head faucet, and a new cockpit shower head.  I will be mocking up the manifolds over the long weekend and will send photos with a flow chart for comments.  I got fixated on the use of manifolds while doing research on home pex water systems.  This may all be a silly use of my limited talents, but I'm having fun.

Thanks for everyone's input.

Dan

Ron:

I plan to re-plumb both of the manual foot pumps.  I am moving the pump tucked behind the cabinet door out and next to the pump on the outside of the galley structure.  One pump will be used as I described in my first post.  The second will have a y-valve running to the refrigerator box and to the raw water (in my area--lake water) inlet.

Ken:

It's not a need.  My last boat was a Morgan 34 with only a foot pump.  We liked it.  We used less water, which was important with the Morgan's limited tankage.  I'm redoing all of the plumbing, so I thought why not.  It will quieter and we'll be able to move water if the pump fails.  With my planned use of manifolds, the extra hose and connections will be limited and accessible.

It's getting too cold here in Wisconsin to do this install now.  So, I'll probably mock up the system over the winter in the workshop and test it out.  I'll report out the results.

BTW, I installed service kits on both of the pumps.  I didn't find any write ups or photos on installing the kits here at C34.org or elsewhere.  I took photos as I worked.  Do you think it would be of value to post instructions and photos?  I'll be happy to do so, if they might be of value.

Thanks for your inputs,

Dan

I am redesigning my plumbing.  One of my objectives is to be able to supply water through the galley faucet using either the existing electric pump or a manual foot pump.  I will be using manifolds.  My thought is to run parallel paths from my "intake" manifold (which will receive flow from either freshwater tank or from an antifreeze intake) to my "cold" manifold (which will send flow to the cold faucets and to the water heater).  I am also thinking of plumbing in an accumulator.  I've attached my initial design flow chart, simplified to just show the parallel flow between the two manifolds. 

Am I missing anything?  Will this work?  Do I need check valves in either line?  Any thoughts or comments will be appreciated.

Dan

Andrew,

You know, mine may be expanding foam.  It's pretty dense, much denser than the homeowner/diy expanding foams I've worked with, but there are minute air bubbles.  I will persevere.  Any suggestions on how to snake the wires out the slot at the bottom of the post?  I've thought of dropping a chain or wire and then catching it from below with a "shepherd's crook" wire.  Also, how did you close up your cabin top hole?  I've played with the idea of trying to insert tubing, shaped like an upside down "j", and sealing that in place, with the thought that it will allow additional wiring but keep out (most of) the water.

Again, thanks for your thoughts,

Dan

Roc,  You're right.  I didn't count.  Good idea for the (I hope there will be no) next time.  Thanks for the info.

Dan

[Running Wires Through Mast Compression Post.]

Hi All,

I have questions on two projects for which I did not find any existing threads.

Running Wires Through Mast Compression Post.  After an unplanned night crossing of Lake Michigan last summer (which was both gorgeous and great fun), I decided I'd like to have a light for my windex.  I will power the light from the navigation lights circuit.  I have an '86 deck stepped mast.  Running new wires up the mast was straight forward.  Running wires through the deck and down the compression post is looking much harder.  The existing wires coming through the deck and mast step are bedded in a huge blob of what I expect is silicone (it's white, adheres aggressively to everything and is still flexible).  I have begun digging my way through it and have reached about 1/2 inch below the deck top, with no bottom in sight.  My fear is that the adhesive/caulk may run down for inches.  I don't know how I would get through that depth.  Any one have any experience with this?  Any suggestions on how to complete the wiring?

Tightening Chain Plate Rods.  I removed and rebedded my chain plates.  I am now ready to re-attach my rods.  How tight to make them?  Any suggestions along the lines of "finger tight" and then "x" turns?  I removed the rods with the boat in the cradle.  I noticed the deck "move" when releasing two rods on the same side.  Will it be wise to launch and let the boat rest for a day before tightening the rods?  Sort of let her resume her "in the water" form first?

Thanks for any help,

Dan Cross
Ennui Went
#159

Sorry,  I can't figure out how to make my photos small enough to attach.  And, I've got to run out to buy some high pressure hydraulic fittings for my adapter.  What fun!

Dan

Thanks for all the replies, especially those describing their hose runs.  My surveyor (whom I like and listen to) just added the hose recommendation orally.  In truth, it was in response to my prompts.  He knows I'm a putzer and would be happy with another project.

I will try to send a couple of photos of my regulators in the next post.  I have a screwdriver stuck in the "vent" outlet on the second regulator.  The outlet to the stove is hidden below the vent outlet in the photo.  I took a closer look at the vent hose running from the first to the second regulator.  It's marked Safgas CNG 50 psi Max.  So, with that, and the replies above, I feel comfortable installing a low pressure vent hose.

As to Wisconsin and CNG.  First, I don't have a lot of experience with CNG, so my knowledge is limited.  I've not found an exchange location in Wisconsin.  I was able to swap out my original tank for a recently certified tank at Larsen Marine in Waukegan, IL.  Fortunately, a Wisconsin oil company has installed CNG at a few stations in my area.  One is in Green Bay, which is en route to my boat, and one in Marinette, within a few miles of my slip.  So, this week I'm sourcing online and locally parts for a CNG fill adapter along the lines described by Steverhnm at http://shar.es/1fDgGl.  My tank swap was surprisingly expensive.  Though, in fairness to them, Larsen took a tank in rough shape and with no visible certification marks.  I'm looking forward to cheap refills at the pump.

Thanks again for all of the replies.

Dan

Sorry, I'm away from the boat and don't have any photos.  The tank is in the seat locker in the aft cabin.  I believe a vent hose was never installed and suspect that was standard.  My surveyor said it would be wise to install the vent hose.  If one of the regulators blows, it could put out a lot of CNG, which would take time to clear out of the boat on its own.  I suspect that I'll try to terminate the vent at the stern, to keep it out of the waves.

Dan

Good save, K.  You're right, it's CNG.  The hose looks to attach directly to the regulator.  I'll run it from there to overboard.  I haven't figured out where that will be.  I'd be happy to get suggestions on where to locate the overboard vent fitting.

Dan