Messages

Paul : I'm not familiar with the "metal" Racor bowl. 
However, the plastic Racor bowl does have the drain plug on the bottom just so you can drain water out of the bowl. 

You might want to check if the metal bowl has that feature.

A thought

The metal bowls spin on series have a drain, but not a plastic twist thumb nut with the hose barb.  You have to unscrew a standard type pipe plug.

Just FYI, I replaced the OEM filter on my M-25 with a Racor 120 spin-on series filter - and have run it with that for nearly 20 years.  Have been very happy with it.  The 120 is the smallest footprint assembly and is plenty enough capacity for our diesels (rated like 30 gals/hour.) 

FWIW, I did research and comparisons of primary and secondary filters a few years ago and wrote for mfgr test results of filter efficiencies.  Although marketed/sold as a "2u" filter, by current test standards the Racor spin on filter are actually rated 4u.   Here's the statement by Racor.

99% or better @ 4 microns
"From what I understand, the 2 micron branding on our filters is a leftover from pre NIST counting standards (from before Wally started here in 1981) and is more of a marketing name than a designation based on test data." –Parker Hannifin, Racor Division 8/8/2012 email

For the secondary filter, I found that you can't buy a better filter than a FleetGuard brand.  The OEM filters are not as efficient as the FleetGuards.

FleetGuard
65% efficient @ 2u
82% efficient @ 10u
98.67% efficient @ 20u

Universal/Kubota
95% efficient @ 25u.

Ken

John : There is another method of shimming out the horizontal rudder play.  It involves using epoxy, but I'm not familiar with that process.  Maybe someone will see this and explain it to you. 

The Mylar film worked great for me!!

A thought

I did the epoxy resin/graphite bearing surface on my (C-30) rudder post.  Worked quite well.  Can pass along tips if you decide to go that route.  Check the radial wheel and everything if you have grinding - to narrow down that cause.

KK

Replaced!  Reference first post.

Greg

Ooops, sorry missed that!

Have you been following the thread about the harness wiring and ?

-  A fuse on the power feed to the cockpit.
-  The fuse on the "S" wire to the solenoid.
-  Moving the battery negative cable to a starter bolt.
-  Heavy Alternator B+ cable to the solenoid "B" post.
-  Alternator B- cable to the engine block (or better yet to a negative bus bar [along w/ the harness negative wire].)


Cheers,
Ken

Thanks for the info, Stu,  I do suspect all my wiring.  Every time I've inspected anything so far, I've had to replace it. 

How do you know the engine wiring, harness, panel, etc. are good?

Ken

Gary,
Thanks for the quick reply , same as what I have in ours, but the pump is is loud everyone in the Marina knows what you are doing.
Many Thanks
Kevin # 5 5 3

There's a newer version with a shroud over the pump arm.

Ken

I think there were four, Ken, but I'd have to go down to the marina a count them to be sure.

Theoretically, depending on the model and wiring, you could have 3, 4, or 5 - best to double check (color or purpose of each would help)

Ken

Any servicing tips?

I'll be on the boat in the morning, doing a 2nd oil change. I could take a closer look at the pump at that time.

Paul

"Inspecting" more than "servicing." 
Any leaks from the weep hole indicates a seal is leaking and needs replacing (possibly shaft also if worn/scored.)
Pull and inspect impeller, but then you might ruin gasket if not the o-ring style cover.  You can make a paper gasket by tracing cover/body.

I recommend that customers carry the following:

1) A NEW impeller (not an old one) for an emergency and for the next replacement.   
2) Replace the impeller every 2 years (depending of course on how much you motor.)  For under $20 a year it's great insurance. 
3) Carry the old one (in addition to a new one) for an emergency, emergency replacement.
4) A few paper cover gaskets (or one o-ring if the new style)
5) A spare engine mount gasket (I prefer the Kubota gasket p/n 15296-88130 over the Westerbeke gasket.)
6) If the mount happens to be bolts instead of studs/nuts, recommend installing stainless studs and stainless/nylock flange nuts (kit.)

It you ever need to change the pump, recommend the M-16 (1/2" inlet/outlet.)

Dumping the Universal/Westerbeke OEM hose barb elbows (goes for Sherwood pump also) if in salt water - they are cast brass, not bronze!!!  I use generic marleon fittings, because all the bronze hose barbs available are a POS.

Ken

Sorry, I don't have all that, KWKloeber.  A thief stole the alternator after it was off the engine.  Actually he was going to go check out a boat shop for a replacement, but he disappeared on me, so I no longer have the unit.  Whatever the stock unit was in 1987.

M-25s and XPs were built with a std 51 amp (8MR model series alternator) or an optional 72? amp w. external sense.
How many wires were connected to the alt?

Ken

What's your OEM Alt? - 51 amp? 75 amp?  internal sense?  External sense?
The model no is stamped on the side of the frame, up front (pulley end.)

Ken

Working on my 'spares' list.

Is this an Oberdorfer pump ??

Yes, it looks like a 3/8" (not 1/2") inlet/outlet.  A 202M-15 (cover has a gasket.) 
If the cover has an O-ring, then N202M-15

Ken

It's been a while, but I finally have some news to report on my starter woes.  After last season, I had resigned myself to a new starter or a starter rebuild, as I couldn't seem to solve the problem by addressing the electrical connections.  Over the winter, I went to the boat for a routine check, and when I started the engine, the starter button stuck in the depressed condition.  I guess after 20+ years of exposure to the elements, the innards had corroded to the point where it was no longer serviceable.  So- a quick starter button replacement, and everything was back in order.

So far this season, we've had zero issues with starting the engine when hot (and I test it just to make sure every time I shut it down).  In comparison, last season I had a 0% success rate in starting the engine when hot, and 100% when starting cold.  I don't fully understand how this links to replacing the starter button, but I've put off the starter replacement project, hopefully permanently.

Peter,

Consider it might be a coincidental combination of factors... which is why I always expouse to troubleshoot before an owner randomly starts replacing parts -- usually the parts replaced weren't the root cause and one never knows the exact problem.  Case in pont -- good thing you hadn't replaced the starter.

When engines are hot they are typically easier to start, but when electrical things get hot that can go squirrley.  Resistance increases, parts don't slide as easily, if there's corrosion or a weak solenoid coil --- those sorts of issues --- things bad can happen.   Quite possibly the corrosion on the start button (high resistance, low voltage and current), coupled with, say, a weak or sticky solenoid, could have been the original problems.  Replacing the button may have brought the voltage and current up just enough to overcome the sticky plunger and/or weak solenoid coil.

I don't see where you reported back about the ground connections.  Again, there could be multiple issues, and eliminating one  may just have been enough to overcome the others (until one of them degrades further and whammo, it's baaaaack.)  I'd suggest checking all ground connections and cleaning well and moving the battery negative cable from the bell housing to a starter bolt.

You can also check the solenoid now that you have a good start button - let the battery run down until the point where the solenoid won't kick in and see what voltage that is.  If there's one good investment, it's usually to just replace an aging solenoid (with one that has a threaded post "S" terminal instead of the 1/4" quick connect) and not the whole starter.

Ken

I've zoomed and scrolled but can't find the fuse. Where in the after picture of the engine panel wiring improvements is the fuse? Jon W

Jon

OHHHHH, now I get it.  Apologies for the confuzion!

No they were two different jobs.   The 8ga #5 wire w/ maxi fuse was on a C-30 with an M-25XP (no preheat solenoid) and OEM Seaward panel (I didn't have a pic of that.)  It's just a 20a push-button breaker thru the panel face, with a clear silicone screw-on cap for weather protection.  I also had a new Cole-Hersee dual alarm (light/buzzer) for the oil pressure and temp stitches.

The pic of the panel was just an example of making a bad panel good -- trashing the stake-on terminals and replacing with AHS terminals and decent wiring connections.  That was on a CS-36T with a Westerbeke W-30 engine and Westerbeke Admiral panel.   The W-30 is wired OEM with a 20-a breaker on the engine -- the set up is essentially similar to the M-25XPB, M-35B, etc. wiring and the harness is already protected.  It also has a preheat solenoid, so the 20-a breaker is plenty.  That was a broken Wb panel face and I also switched from the OEM "key-push-in" preheat switch, to a separate push-button preheat sw.  The owner is pretty well on in years and found it hard to get his fingers in the little hole and hold the key in the preheat position.

Ken

[Introducing one more failure point]

Guys,

If you wire in a start solenoid for the glow plugs, as there should be, then there is really no need for 8GA wire in the engine wiring harness because all you are powering is the fuel pump & solenoids (for seconds). These loads are fractions of what a 10GA 105C wire can easily handle.......

I do have crimp tools for 8GA I just often prefer to skip right over it, when I can, because 8GA is an oddball size with limited selections of terminals compared to 6GA or 10GA. My 8GA crimp tools are very expensive (USA made) and not tools a regular DIY would purchase so I often advise skipping 8GA rather than investing in a sub standard tool. I've yet to find an inexpensive 8GA tool I could recommend...

It also requires carrying yet another two crimp tools in my bag which already has about six crimp tools in it. A glow solenoid will run about $20.00 and is worth every penny and if mounted close to the starter solenoid 10GA wire is more than adequate for the 10-15 seconds it is being used to drive the plugs on an M-25.

On another note if anyone wants a true top quality USA made heat shrink crimp tool I have worked closely with a USA tool maker now for over two years and finally have one to offer. They are not cheap, $145.00, but you won't find a tool that makes a better formed crimp on heat shrink terminals. I generally sell these to professionals but if opting for DIY wiring I would highly recommend this tool!!
......

RC,

FIRST - DON'T keep us in the dark - link us to a quality AHS crimper!!   

What I had recalled from some post somewhere (I believe I think that I may remember that I recall -  i.e., CRS) -- was that you couldn't find a decent 8GA crimper.  I probably (no, likely DID) "mis-remember" that post.

I'm surprised that the range of 8GA terminals are less available than 6GA.  For anything above 10GA, I use uninsulated lugs/butts and not AHS terminals -- so I can't comment on availability of AHS terms.   But for starter and power lugs, I use FTZ, and find that there are as many sizes avail in 8GA as there are for 6GA (#10, 1/4, 5/16, 3/8, 1/2.) 

I'm interested in why you characterize 8GA as "odd ball"?  Every wire and terminal supplier I have seen has 8GA, so I'm unsure what you mean.  And if one uses AHS terms w/ larger wire (I won't) you can get 8GA, but I haven't seen 6GA.

To clarify, on the particular harness with the 8GA, the owner wanted a high amp circuit / low voltage loss to the cockpit, and I wanted to provide as little voltage loss as reasonable versus the cost of copper -- the decision for 8Ga was driven by that, not by current capacity.  Certainly 10GA was more than sufficient per 11.14.2.  And if he was using a heavy-duty spotlight while cranking the GPs and engaging the starter (I put nothing past the decisions an owner may make at any given point in time), I wanted enough voltage to pop the solenoid.

Let me take a different angle on the preheat solenoid and harness wire size.....

On the preheat - I'm really torn by this. I believe the average person shouldn't have a preheat solenoid because the reasoning below.  I don't think there's a clear winner "best" option -- but pros and cons to weigh out.

Introducing one more failure point - I installed one, but it's a continuous-duty 40-amp, plug-in, power relay, not a "Ford" starter solenoid.  (It shows our age if anyone remembers shorting out those with a screwdriver to crank the engine while working under the hood.)  The relay is pop-in/pop-out in a socket and I carry a spare -- no need for even a screwdriver if it fails. 

The real danger of burning out the coil and/or GPs - I know how long to crank the GPs, but I just had a customer burn out his Westerbeke OEM XPB preheat solenoid coil while trying run the pump to bleed the fuel lines.  Stooopid stoopid set up that Wb/Univ has there, and POS solenoid -- but sometimes we have to idiot-proof systems to avoid disasters.   Second, that the GPs are 10 volt -- it's not such a bad thing to have a long 10GA circuit to introduce some voltage loss into the equation.  Again, I'm torn, but generally don't recommend a preheat solenoid to the "turn the key and go" type owner.


Ken

Thanks Ken. I still have to solve my in tank fuel pick up tube problem, but when in there looking around I noticed the engine control panel electrical bits have no protection/housing around it. Catalina Direct has them for sale, but would appreciate feedback on whether that is something that should be added during this electrical upgrade process or is it $125 I don't need to spend? Thanks.  Jon W.

Jon

The panel tray isn't really necessary, but I would defo redo the wiring on the panel using adhesive heat shrink terminals.

I'll put it this way -- a panel WITH tinned wire and AHS terminals w/o the tray, is a LOT better than a panel w/ the tray having crappy wire and terminals!

Ken

Sue,

Presuming you already have the flat stainless rail, just measure the length holder (rail to center of pot or burner) that you need.
http://www.suremarineservice.com/search.aspx?find=pot+holder&log=false&manufacturer=146

Call Todd Glenn at SURE - they show them all out of stock - but may still be available. 
(800) 562-7797
If ANYONE knows, Tom "SURE" will.


Ken