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Great article, Ron, in this month's Mainsheet describing your windlass installation. I looked for the full version in the Projects section and couldn't find it. Is it lost in the pipeline somewhere??

John

Hi guys,

As you have noticed, the overall length of a standard 4D at the top is about the same as a pair of golf cart batteries. However, the bottom of the case of an 4D is only about 19 inches and change. If you have a tapered battery box you have to give that consideration in your choice of alternate battery compositions. A pair of Lifeline AGM 4C (golf cart) batteries arranged end-to-end have a dimension of exactly 20.5 inches at the bottom of a battery box. A pair of Trojans will have a length slightly more than that at the bottom of the battery box.

If you have enough vertical clearance, you can block the golf cart batteries up higher with wooden spacers and sometime make then fit into the bottom of a tight 4D box.

For reference, the Trojan batteries in general are the best of the flooded cell golf cart batteries, and the T105 is the best energy bargain of the Trojan line. The Interstates are so-so, but certainly no T105 by any method of comparison. I have no personal experience with the East Penn golf cart batteries, but they also are probably not equal to the Trojans based upon their other battery offerings.

If you don't like the smell and maintenance of flooded cells, then go to the Lifeline GPL-4CT which is a sealed, no maintenance premium AGM deep cycle battery with impressive ratings. While they are nominally rated at 220 a-hrs at a 20 hr discharge rate, the actual reserve minutes numbers ( and my own testing ) indicate that a pair of GPL-4C Lifelines will provide more energy output at any discharge level of 25 amp or lower than even an 8D battery, and considerably more than a 4D battery, of any flavor, including Lifeline.

Just a little unsolicited commentary...

John

If you are going to have a dedicated starting battery, you should always at least start from it when leaving the dock. The best way to confirm that your starting battery is fully functional is to actually start your engine with it. Those who start with the battery switch in BOTH or from just the house bank will never know if that dedicated starting starting battery is ready to help them when they accidentally run everything else down or have a battery failure in their house bank.

My preferred  approach is to have a dedicated starting battery always connected to the engine starting circuit through a simple on/off ( normally ON ) battery switch, the alternator connected directly to the house bank, an electronic battery combiner/isolator AND mechanical on/off battery switch ( normally OFF ) connected between the house and start banks ( the electronic combiner takes care of starter bank charging when the engine is running ), and an on/off battery switch ( normally ON ) between the house bank and the house loads ( excluding the inverter if you have one ). This is a very "mindless" setup that requires no battery switch manipulations during all normal operations, but allows you to manually cross-connect the house and starting banks together if either bank should become unusable. This provides a simple, reliable configuration that many of my former cruising customers have put many sea miles on with no problems.

John

Ron,

That's actually better than the recommended 30 amp fuses because the internal fuse on the 20+ is a 30 amp fuse on each output line. If you are going to have external fuses, you would rather have them blow before the internal fuses blow. The external fuse is probably easier to get to for changing.

The internal fuses are actually pretty easy to change once you know the "secret handshake"..... The trick is in knowing which screws to take out so that you can slide the whole assembly out of the case to get to the fuses. If I can find the data that the factory sent me several years ago, I'll post it on here.

John

John,

As I noted in a recent post on this subject, all of the Truecharge+ chargers have internal fuses on the output lines that I can attest work quite well, so I wouldn't worry too much about additional inline fuses.

The case of the charger should actually be grounded to the "green" buss of the AC wiring. In fact, on many/most boats in the US, the "green" AC ground gets connected to the DC ground at some point, so I guess it is essentially the same. I personally  "feel" better grounding the case to the AC "green" ground, even if it eventually gets connected to the DC ground as well...... Call me silly.

John

In the FYI category, the Truecharge+ series of chargers already have internal fusing on their outputs, so external fuses are not required or recommended. You will normally never blow the internal fuses. However, if you ever are stricken with a momentary case of dumb ass and connect the charger output wires to the battery with the polarity reversed ( not that anyone would ever do that......  ), the fuses will dutifully blow and leave you only embarrassed rather than with a broken charger.

There are many reasons to like a Truecharge+.

John

Well, I intended to post a response on this subject a few nights ago, but it was too late for me to make complete sentences.... Try again tonight.

Back to Robert's original posting on this subject, I must point out 2 very important elements: (1) he returned to the boat and found the CB to the battery charger blown; (2) after reactivating the CB and getting the charger working again, he discovered some time later that relatively new batteries were hot and gassing with the charger spending time with it's ammeter "pegged out" at maximum output. Let me pontificate a little on those 2 points.

With regard to point (1), a properly ( mostly.... ) designed battery charger that is working correctly will generally not overload an appropriately rated circuit breaker or fuse. This is because the maximum output current and/or power is electronically limited by one of several means, and the input power consumption is mostly related to the maximum output power. The two possible exceptions to this, depending on the design of the charger, are generally input voltage significantly too high or too low. While this is possible, it is rare in current chargers. The more probable cause for overloading the input AC circuit breaker is a failed charger that has lost its maximum power output limit capability. This generally means that the output stage of the charger has shorted or otherwise failed in such a way that the output voltage of the charger becomes much higher than normal, resulting in a very significant increase in output power which is then reflected back to the input circuit as a much larger than normal input current. The input circuit breaker is there primarily to prevent serious damage from occurring due to a failure in the battery charger. Word To The Wise #1: If the battery charger circuit breaker has blown, be very suspicious about the condition of the charger.

With regard to item (2), properly charged batteries may get warm to the touch after hard charging, but should never get hot. In the case of two 4D batteries on a 30 amp charger, the batteries should never even become noticeably warm during the normal charging process. The exceptions here are: battery is extremely low on water ( flooded batteries only ); battery has a shorted cell; batteries are being exposed to significant over-charging, and generally at excessive voltage ( i.e. - charger has failed in the worst possible way ). By the way, a failed charger producing excessive output voltage can produce not only low water, but also shorted cells in typical flooded cell batteries. Not only that, if allowed to continue for an extended period of time, significant over-charging can also produce an explosion in flooded cell batteries. Word To The Wise #2: If the batteries are hot from what should be normal charging, you have a problem that will only get worse the longer you allow it to continue. A failed charger is the usual culprit.

If you have or suspect a failed charger, a good voltmeter ( preferably a digital one ) is all you need to troubleshoot the charger. Any sustained voltage output from the charger in the normal charging mode in excess of about 14.8 volts means you probably have a problem. Any sustained output voltage in excess of about 15.5 volts means you do have a problem. Don't try to use the typical analog voltmeter found with the engine gauges as a point of reference: they are only slightly better than an "idiot light" as they are notoriously inaccurate.

If you have a hot battery that is gassing, but charger voltages seem reasonable, you probably have a battery problem. Carefully pop the filler caps ( flooded cells only ) and see if all the cells are gassing about equally: a shorted cell won't be gassing. If you can no longer see liquid in the cells, you have a serious loss of water problem, and the battery is likely seriously damaged. Any battery plate material that has been dry for more than about 24 hours is generally permanently "dead".

In summary, pay careful attention to your charger and your batteries. Batteries can be deadly in the correct circumstances, and particularly so in the case of typical flooded cell batteries. They deserve your respect and proper care, which includes protection from serious over-charging. More importantly from a practical standpoint, if you are having battery troubles, you almost are certainly not having fun out on your boat!

To follow-up on what Stu said, there are a few very good chargers, a few more acceptable chargers, and a lot of very BAD chargers out there. The Flyback ProMariner is in the very BAD group. Please get them off of your boat.

John

If is possible to splice the cable to extend it, but you will have to exercise significant care. The cable should be a shielded cable, and it is important to keep it that way. Rather than actually splicing it back together inline with soldering and heat shrink tubing, I would recommend creating a junction point using some of the small gauge, multi-conductor, nylon terminal strips to create a point where you can add additional wiring length. Try to keep the number of terminal strips to a minimum if at all possible. The best approach, if possible/practical is to add the extension cable at the AP unit end since that way you only introduce one terminal strip point. However, since that may be a real PIA if your AP control head/computer is mounted on the binnacle. If that's the case, just exercise care in where and how you add the inline extension terminal points.

Once you add additional length, you may have to recalibrate the compass, but if you move it to a new location you would be doing that anyway.

You will probably find that a 10 degree deviation will calibrate pretty well, although the absolute accuracy would be equal to the ship's compass. You will just have to be careful what you have sitting on top of the wet locker......

If and when the time comes, let me know if you have trouble locating a suitable cable or terminals for the extension project.

John

The easiest way to survey your boat for a good flux gate sensor location is with a small compass. Move it all around in possible mounting locations and look for changes in the compass readout. If there is any wiring close by, make sure you know what it is and where it goes, and then activate the load at the end of the run and see what having it turned on and operating does to your compass reading. This will save you a lot of time and frustration. Also, don't forget about what you may later store near the mounted sensor: that big bag of tools on the other side of a bulkhead will give you fits when you try to use the autopilot!

On a boat the size of a C34 with all of the normal "stuff" we like to have on them, there are not many good spots readily available for flux gate sensor mounting, so you will likely have to find a spot that is just acceptable rather than great.

John

Speaking from the experience of having been in the battery and battery charger business for about 8 years, I can pass along the industry insider explanation of Promariner's lifetime warranty: "It's good they have it because you will certainly need it."

For the money, the TrueCharge 20+ and 40+ units are just about the only ones of the standalone chargers that I will sell or recommend for 12 volt applications. There are some more advanced chargers beginning to show up, but they cost a lot more and thus far have an unproven track record.

John

Hi Steve,

From what I can see in your picture of the failed bulb, you have a bad connection at the end of the bulb that ends up turning gold. It looks like a high resistance connection that is creating LOTS of heat: you are almost melting that end of the bulb.

Since the same type of bulb in the stern light is doing fine, you aren't having high voltage issues. Anyway, voltage up around 14.4 won't do that kind of damage to an incandescent bulb: a halogen, on the other hand, can overheat at those voltages and fail prematurely.

Take your bow light apart and check all parts of the connectors that hold the bulb. You probably have a loose pair of "fingers" at one end. The problem is that if it has gotten that hot, the fingers may now have lost their temper.

Happy hunting!

John

StataGlas is universally recognized at the best there is for flexible windows. Even along the Gulf coast, it will provide years of service with just reasonable maintenance.

John

Bill,

Down here in the south ( Texas ) we want all the shade we can get. A typical C34 bimini here is about 10 feet long from front to back, which makes it extend from almost the back of the stern rail to about a foot past the front of the companionway. If we normally had dodgers here, the separate bimini would be a little shorter. It is made of 2 sets of bows that each include an additional fold-out shorter bow that fold out toward the middle of the cockpit area. They always are mounted on the top of the cockpit coaming and/or deck and definitely not to the stern rail: the bow geometry would be very poor and result in a very poorly supported bimini.


As for lexan windows in the dodger, I have been on a lot of offshore capable boats of all sizes along the Texas Gulf coast, and I have never seen lexan used for windows in any soft dodger. I have seen them used in hard dodgers, however. Lexan would be almost impossible to machine sew onto canvas/Sunbrella as it is very brittle. You might be able to hand stitch it if you drilled a series of "needle holes" along the edge for hand stitching, but this would also produce a whole set of other problems. Lexan in thicker panels is used for bullet-proof windows, so I doubt that it is a good candidate for any type of needle sewing.

John

Hey Ron,

You have it backwards. Look on p 16 of the Universal Operator's manual. The raw water goes through the copper tubes which are submerged in the engine coolant.

On my old Perkins 4-154 in the Stamas 44, you could see the guts of the HX ( i.e. - bundle of copper tubes ) looking down through the radiator cap into the Prestone...

John

The thermal breakers made by ETA I believe are a drop-in replacement, or maybe even the original manufacturer, of the push-on/push-off breakers used in the older(?) C34 panels. There are multiple pole breakers available in this general configuration, but they are lots larger in size and price. In a boat full of single pole breakers, I don't think it is worth the trouble and money to go to 2 pole breakers anywhere but the main AC input breaker.

The root part number for the ETA breaker with P-on/P-off switching, a 3/8" treaded mounting neck, and push-on .25" spade terminals is 2-5700-iG1-P10-DD-xxA, where "xx" is the breaker amperage rating. They are available from both Allied Electronics ( www.alliedelec.com ) and DigiKey ( www.digikey.com ) They cost less than $20 each. You can check online stock at either web site. You can also go to www.e-t-a.com and go to the Product section and then to the link for "Distributor Stock", enter the 2-5700 root part number, and you will get a maybe-current listing of who has what and how many pieces of each.

Having said that, I am not a big fan of thermal breakers, particularly when used with .25" spade terminals such as used on the C34, and very particularly when using ratings higher than about 10 amps. As the burned wires and terminals will indicate if you look at your main, A/C, and water heater breakers in the older C34 panels, spade terminals + movement+ salt water + time = lots of bad electrical connections and lots of heat at the terminals and the breaker itself. At about 10 amps and below, they are usable but not great. I much prefer magnetic breakers like the Carling toggle series ( also better know to boaters as Blue Sea brand toggle breakers sold through WM and others ).

If you must stick to the thermal breakers for size compatibility, you can improve reliability by going to the screw terminal version of the ETA breaker and have a better chance of keeping the power connections tight over a longer period of time. Just substitute "K10" for "P10" in the part number.

By the way, the sudden failure of thermal breakers in the C34 in high current circuits is very common as some of our boats get older. My main breaker on Otra Vez went from allowing the A/C to work normally one day to popping as soon as I turned on the A/C compressor the next day. I replaced the breaker and all was well.

Hope this answers some of the questions.

John