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Topics - Sailing Amok

#1
Hey folks, I've got a bit of work to do on the injectors, and it'll still be 1.5 months before we have access to running water at the club. I'm wondering about pulling the impeller and running the engine for a few minutes with no raw water. I suspect the engine itself will be fine, given that there is still coolant in the fresh water side, not to mention it's -10c here. My concern is melting the aqua lift muffler. Any thought or experience with this? I understand it's frp? How big a risk is say 5min of running with no water cooling the exhaust, on a cold early spring day? I'd like to get the work done now, rather than rushing right before launch.
#2
Main Message Board / M35B Hisssss
July 05, 2023, 03:25:52 PM
As mentioned in my recent thread regarding our alternator failure, Coral Wave's engine started producing an intermittent hissing sound about two seasons ago. When our alternator recently failed, I attributed the hissing to an early warning of that issue, however, the alternator has been replaced, and the hissing remains. It's really hard to say whether it sounds more like an air/fluid hiss, or a bearing hiss. My buddy who has spent his life on tractors gave it a listen, and thought it seemed to be coming from the area of the raw water pump (Sherwood) but he wasn't really sure. He also wondered if it could be the alternator cycling, as it is intermittent, almost like somethings switching off and on. I don't think it's the thermostat, as it happens within a minute or two of startup, while the engine is still cold. It does seem to happen less frequently as the engine warms up, but does still occur at operating temperature, and at all engine speeds. Anyway, I shot a little video, it may be a bit hard to pick out the change in sound but it happens around the 5 second mark in this video. In the video it sounds more like a sizzle than a hiss, but in person I'd say a hiss is the best description.
Anyone's 35's do this? https://www.youtube.com/shorts/u8Xkf4vmrjE
#3
Main Message Board / Completely seized alternator!
June 07, 2023, 09:30:02 AM
Out for a pleasant sail back from our weekend anchorage on Sunday, when the wind shut down and we had to fire up the Iron Genny. Over the course of a couple hours of motoring the intermittent hissing that I'd been attributing for the past two seasons to a slight leak at a fuel injector (a stitch in time...) gradually grew louder and more constant. Slowly the hiss started to sound less like a hiss, and more like grinding. Kristina went below deck to grab a beverage, and yelled up "It smells really weird down here". I went to check things out, and it sure smelt like burning rubber. I opened up the engine cover and just at that moment, the engine let out the most horrible squeal. Kristina quickly pulled the kill switch and we unfurled the headsail. Once back at the dock (thanks to a tow in from our slip neighbours) I pulled off the belt to try giving things a spin. The alternator is so frozen I couldn't even turn it with a wrench. Anyway, time for a new alternator, but I've got a few questions I want to run by you knowledgeable folks.

I'll give some info regarding usage and power needs, because I know it's important:
Our typical sailing is 3 weekends (Friday night to Monday morning) per month mid May to early Oct, with one 10 day trip during August. We have a house bank of 4 Trojan batteries wired for 12 volts and 460ish amp hours, installed by PO 2015. Solar = 123w rigid solar panel and 2 50w flexible solar panels, all over 10 years old, and the flexibles are questionable at best. We sail as much as we can, and keep motoring to a minimum. With North Western Ontario's long days, we're typically down 5-10 amp hours when we go to bed, and 30-50 when we wake up, depending how full the fridge is I guess. The alternator that failed is a 50 amp Mando, which seems likely to be original. The engine has 1360 hours on it.

Given the age of our batteries and panels, as well as our plans for longer cruising in a few years, I suspect a major electrical overhaul is in our future. That is not something I want to do now, in the middle of our short sailing season. So, while I know a large output, externally regulated alternator is the way to go, I'm thinking for now I'll go with a more simple swap, to get through the next season or two before everything else gets changed. So, I'm thinking an internally regulated unit with more amperage to run cooler, but still small enough that I don't need to start changing all my pullies. If I understand correctly, I should be able to get away with the current belt size on something up to about 75amps? Or, if I were to go for something around 100 amps, how much of a job is it to go up in belt size? I suspect I'd need to start changing wiring as well, to handle the increased current. Would that be the case with a 75ish amp alternator as well, and am I correct in thinking it is only the B+ cable that would need to be upgraded, or would all of the wires be carrying additional current? If so, it may make sense to stick with 50amps for now, though I suspect the undersized alternator relative to battery bank may have expedited this unit's demise.

Before installing the new alternator, are there any red flags I should look for in the rest of the system that may have caused the failure? I suppose I should check the batteries in case an issue with one of them could be to blame. Perhaps the belt has been too tight, in which case is there a way to determine if damage has been done to the water pump bearing? Anything thing else to check before I fry a new alternator?

Lastly, my understanding is that the B series engines have a bit of odd wiring, related to the oil pressure and ignition switch (if I recall). What do I need to look for in selecting a replacement alternator that will work here. The wiring on the old alternator includes two wires going to the exciter post, a wire going to an "S" post which I gather is battery voltage sense, but appears to be spliced to the (unmarked but I'm guessing) B+ post, and another wire going to the "P" post which seems to have something to do with the tach, though I don't understand what an alternator has to do with the tach, or what changing alternators will mean for my tach accuracy.

Thoughts and wisdom appreciated!
#4
Main Message Board / Thermostat Bypass
May 08, 2022, 06:10:49 AM
Just curious how much flow there is through the thermostat bypass. I notice that Westerbeke indicates in the manual that the thermostat should be removed for coolant changes, but I've never seen that mentioned on this forum. Why would this be necessary given that there is, as I understand it, a bypass which allows continuous flow of the fresh water side? I assume this flow is fairly restricted to allow the engine to get to temperature in a cold body of water. Any ideas how long one would have to run the engine to fully circulate the system if trying to flush with distilled water? It seems to me that with the bypass, we shouldn't have to wait for the engine to come fully to temperature.

Regards,
Aaron
#5
On the hard north of Lake Superior. Back in mid February I did my usual monthly check of Coral Wave and found about 100cc of what appeared to be diesel in the aft most bilge. I say "what appeared to be" because it was -30c, so my olfactory and tactile senses were pretty well nonexistent. I checked around the engine, and from what I could figure the leak was at the lift pump. I'm hoping it is just something to do with expansion/contraction of the hoses and clamps. I went back to the boat today, exactly one month later, and there was about the same amount of liquid in the bilge. So, I think I'd call this a slow leak but it should be noted that we've never had any leak while the boat was in the water.

Anyway, this brings me to the second problem, which has me more concerned. While checking the engine over to see what was wet and what wasn't, I noticed a couple drops of coolant on the heat exchanger. It was just a couple drops, perhaps it has run along the hx via surface tension from the petcock? For some reason I was inspired to open the manifold cap, and this is where I really scared myself. The manifold is pretty well empty... Given the -40c days we had last month, I'm naturally spooked that something important has cracked. I don't see signs of antifreeze anywhere though, other than the drops on the hx. Again the liquid in the bilge appears to be diesel, and there isn't THAT much. I've read many of the "disappearing coolant" threads on here, but they all seem to relate to either coolant disappearing from the expansion bottle in the winter, or if elsewhere when the engine is running, not winterised. When the boat is laid up, where could it have gone in this case? The drain is open on my our water tank, so if it dumped in there I'd think it would have emptied into the bilge. If a crack were in the hx, I don't think it would drain the manifold as the hx is a higher point, and the engine isn't running and system therefore isn't under pressure. I didn't check the expansion tank today, but it has always been bone dry since we purchased the boat. The manifold has always been full, and that was good enough for me. We don't know if the PO had PG or EG in the system, so the plan was to leave it alone and drain/flush this spring, rather than guess and risk gelling of a wrong coolant combination. Frankly, I haven't been concerned about coolant, as the constant 4c temp of Lake Superior keeps the engine plenty cool.
Anyway, if it were your boat, where would you start searching for the missing coolant/dreaded crack? Are there any tests I can do, such as a pressure check while on the hard, or do all those tests require the boat to be operable, not winterised?
As always, thanks for any advice!
#6
Main Message Board / Confused by bilge pump wiring
June 02, 2021, 07:22:14 PM
Carrying on from my previous post about filling screw holes in the bilge after removing a failed float pump switch, I figured this question deserved its own thread. Now that I've removed the electrical tape and tubing from around the old SureBail float switch and Jabsco bilge pump wiring, I can see that the old float switch had two wires, whereas the new switch I've bought to replace it has three (see photos, yes those are Kleenex wicks to dry out the screw holes). My hope was that  this swap would be as easy as cutting the old switch wires, and splicing the new switch in, however this does not seem to be the case. I'm not sure that tracing and running the wires for the new switch is something I'm comfortable with. Also, the previous owner was an electrician, so everything is done perfectly, but is also fairly complex.
If I understand correctly, the reason bilge pumps have a third wire is to connect them directly (through a fuse) to the battery. I took a peak at our battery bank, and don't see anything that resembles the gauge of wiring from the bilge. Feeling around blindly, it feels like all the wires from the bilge pump and float switch run towards the electrical panel. Would there possibly be an additional wire that runs back from the panel to the battery or something like that?
Anyway, I guess what I'm really wondering is if there is a simplified way for me to get this installed, or is the only solution to run the wires from the switch, all the way to the panel, and to  some location on the battery?
#7
Main Message Board / Flax Break-in
May 26, 2021, 05:19:33 AM
I'm just full of questions this week.

So, I re-packed the stuffing box while on the hard. Pulled out 2 strips of 1/4 teflon packing, which surprised me, as the previous owner was meticulous and did everything right. So, I measured the stuffing box and got .180 on the callipers. Closer to 3/16 than 1/4 I figured, so put in the normal 3 bands of 3/16 (PTFE impregnated flax, that's all I could get). I coated the flax generously with Syntef shaft packing lubricant. At launch I got the box set to about 6 drips/min, and we then sailed off to our marina, which was maybe 20 min of motoring and 1 hour of sailing. I checked on the box about 10min after starting the trip, and had no drips. Once we shut down the engine to sail, I checked the  temp with my hand and it was just warm to the touch.
A few days later I loosened the packing gland until I had some drips, which seemed fine, until I tightened the lock nut and the drips stopped again. I tried this repeatedly, and every time I tightened the lock nut, the drips stopped. After doing a bit of reading, I have determined that I've been looking for drips in the wrong place all along. The only drips I have ever seen have come from the threads, not the end of the gland where the shaft enters it. However, there was a band of wet grease on the shaft, which indicates to me that something is getting through.

At no point have I tightened the packing nut beyond hand tight, and right now it is not even hand tight, still no drips from the shaft. I motored for an hour a couple days ago hoping things would change, but the stuffing box remained dry. Again it is just slightly warm to the touch, but Lake Superior is probably only 4c right now. I've ordered an IR pyrometer, which will hopefully arrive soon.

So, on to the questions:
I've heard that flax packing can take 10 hours or so to break in. Should I leave things as they are, and see if they self resolve? As long as I can hold my hand on the nut, is it safe to run like this for that period? How hot for how long does a stuffing box need to get before it will damage a bronze shaft?
Is it possible that the grease I put in there is just creating an extra effective seal, and needs to break down a bit?
Or, do I assume the previous owner had similar issues, and moved to two strands of 1/4 inch for this exact reason, and start over?
#8
Hey guys! Well, I decided to try filling the bilge with clean water, to make sure the old float switch was working, and... it ain't. I've ordered a new switch of a superior design, which means unfortunately it won't line up with the current mounting holes from the old switch. I've read a few previous posts and seem to have a few options. As I've never done any epoxy work, or even bedding of hardware, it's hard for me to determine the best approach.
It looks like the current switch is screwed directly into the floor of the bilge, so when I remove it I will need to fill those holes. I'm guessing epoxy would be the best way to go, or is this overkill, and I should just squirt some 4200 in there?
Once that is dealt with, it comes to mounting the new switch and opinions seem mixed. Some folks suggest drilling oversized holes, filling with epoxy, drilling pilot holes into the epoxy, and then screwing the switch in. I've also seen 4200 suggested for this purpose, which I don't really understand. Do you just fill the hole with the 4200 and push the screw in while it is still wet? Or do you let it dry and then screw into it? I can't imagine how one would screw into something like that, or that the screw would gain much purchase.
Others suggest simply sticking the switch down with 4200 and drilling no holes at all. Having never worked with the stuff, how hard will it be to remove the switch if stuck on with 4200 when the new switch inevitably dies?
A third option seems to be glueing down a piece of plastic with 4200, and then screwing into that. The only disadvantage I see with that method would be raising the switch slightly, and thereby increasing any standing water in the bilge. If I were to go that route, what sort of "plastic" are people describing? I guess it would need to be at least 1/4 inch thick for the screws?
Thanks!
#9
Just about to order some new stuffing for the stuffing box, and I'm not sure if I should go with PTFE impregnated flax, or graphite impregnated material. Judging by a piece of scrap I found left behind from the PO, he used Gore (it's also 1/4" which seems odd). I guess I won't know if the bronze has already been damaged until I loosen the packing nut, but I'd like to order new stuff now, given how slow shipping is these days. Is galvanic corrosion even an issue in fresh water with graphite stuffing? The PO was a real perfectionist, so I can't imagine that he would have overlooked the possible issues.
#10
The transmissions on our boats hold very little fluid, so I'm wondering how much the transmission dip stick measurement may be off by, with the boat on the hard. Coral Wave spent the winter on a bit more of an incline than we had intended, we only realised after looking at other boats in the yard. Anyway, I filled the transmission to the top for winter storage, as the manual specifies, and now I intend to drain last year's fluid and fill with new for launch. However, with the boat on such an angle, what would be the best way to determine that the level is close to correct? How detrimental would it be to briefly run the engine after launch while moving the boat to the slip, with an incorrectly filled transmission, and would it be better to err on the side of over or under-filled?
Cheers,
#11
Ok, we are officially 1 month (less a day) away from spring launch, and couldn't be more excited / nervous. As this was our first time winterising a boat there is of course some anxiety about what we may discover we did wrong etc. once she splashes. Also, I'm admittedly dreading putting the mast up. But, that is a month away, and there is much work to be done before then. We have a pretty good idea about what annual spring commissioning  tasks need to be accomplished and what opportunities we should take while still on the hard, but I'm curious if anyone has any suggestions for the very first steps they take each year after removing the winter cover? We're going to head to the yard this evening after work, which should leave us with a couple hours of daylight to get the cover off,  and start in on things. Of course we will be back at the yard over the weekend as well.
Any advice is greatly appreciated,
A&K
#12
Main Message Board / Oil change dilemma
August 16, 2020, 07:16:03 AM
So, at 104 hours, I'm just over the recommended oil change interval, however, I only have about two weeks left in my sailing season before we need to haul out and ship the boat across the province to our new home for next year. Question is, do I perform the oil change now, while the weather is poor for the next two days,, or do I push it and wait until just before haul out? I imagine I could have another 10-12 hours on the engine by that point. Is it worse to push the oil change, or to winter the boat with slightly used oil? I suppose the other option is do a change with filter now, and a change of just oil at haul out? Also, what's up with the dip stick in the M35B? There's no "full" mark, just two marks, I operate on the assumption that the upper mark is full.
#13
Main Message Board / Anchoring - Is this Safe?
July 28, 2020, 01:31:32 PM
[img]Hey sailors, I'm sitting here at a beautiful anchorage in Lake Ontario, and I've got a question. Until today I've been hitching my nylon rode to the cleat in the anchor locker. However, last night I read a post on this forum which seemed to indicate that cleat is likely not sufficiently strong for anchoring. My understanding is this has to do with direction of pull. With the locker cleat, the pull is directional with the bolts, rather than a shear force as is intended with a cleat. So, today I have made fast the rode to a bow cleat, but this seems to be putting great stress against the pullpit, as can be seen in the attached photos. So, what's the consensus, am I doing this wrong? Will I find myself with a trashed stanchion, drifting into the Bay of Quinte?
#14
Hello all, my partner and I have a full two months off work before she starts her new position in Thunder Bay, ON. We purchased a beautiful (Bristol condition, so says the survey) 1998 MKII in Kingston, ON with the intention of sailing her back, through the Great Lakes via the Welland Canal. We both have a few seasons experience as crew on other boats, but as new owners, the things like maintenance, as well as the complicated mechanical and electrical systems of a boat like this compared to the older, smaller C&Cs we're used to is a bit overwhelming. There is much to learn. We've decided to spend two weeks sailing daily around the Kingston area, doing drills, etc to learn and assess our comfort level before committing to the trip, however we are provisioning the boat as if the trip is a go.
To the question at hand:
I've read through many threads including the "spare parts 101" to try to determine what we should bring along, and I'm wondering if some of the commonly suggested items are more relevant to folks doing longer passages? Given my lack of experience, I can't really imagine myself changing an alternator or injectors out in the middle of Superior. So, I've lightened the list to things I think I could handle. Please let me know if you think this list is reasonable, overkill
(get myself into trouble), or really missing some important components (won't be able to get us out of trouble).

Spares
Primary and secondary fuel filters X4
Oil filter X2
Impeller kit X2
Jabsco Joker valve
Misc Screws, Nuts, Bolts, Shackles, bailing wire, tape, zip ties etc.
Engine oil 4 quarts
AFT 1 quart
Premixed coolant 1 Gal (previous owner mixed 60/40 rather than 50/50, any idea why?)

Tools
Socket set
Allen keys
Vise grips
Adjustable wrench
Filter wrench
Needle nose pliers
Hacksaw
Rubber mallet
Multimeter

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.