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Messages - pbyrne

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5
1
Main Message Board / Re: Engine loosing coolant
« on: April 06, 2021, 07:46:33 AM »
And of course the recover tank, which I think is just up for replacement.  I don't see anything wrong with the hose and it looks like there is evidence of the clamp to tank connection leaking.  Clamp tension looks ok, but may have been too tight and cracked the plastic.

2
Main Message Board / Re: Engine loosing coolant
« on: April 06, 2021, 07:44:50 AM »
I refilled the engine a couple of days ago and placed some shop towels around the engine.

It looks like the leak may be coming from high up on the engine at the rear of the manifold, where there is a connection that is wrapped in heat protection.  Also, it appears the hose on the heat exchanger looks cracked, and needs replaced.

I don't really know what I'm looking at or the implications.  Can anyone shed some light on what these photos are showing?

3
Thanks Ron, that's is a good tip.  Will do. 

I inspected the nuts and out of 8, 5 are loose.  I removed one to take to Fastenal for replacements.  It was not very hard to remove the nut.  I was able to use my fingers once a spun it with the wrench a 1/2 turn.  That was a bit alarming.  Probably past the nylon at that point.

My conversation with PYI provided the information that the nuts are not recommended to be reused (i.e. if they were removed) as the nylon will be worn down a bit and not hold as well as the first time.

They also suggested blue loctite for a belt and suspenders approach, but mentioned even loctite purple (low strength) is okay too.

On a standard installation it is just the nylock no threadlock.

So there you go!

pby : Don't try to make this complicated!!  The main pressure/stress is on the bolts the locknuts just keep the bolts in place!! 

I'd just tighten all the nuts and on the short bolts clean all the grease off the nuts and white coupler.  Take some of you 1st Mates red fingernail polish and make a strip on the nut that goes on to the white coupler.  That's called a slippage mark.  Then run the engine as you normally would and periodically look at those stripes.  If the nut starts to back off the painted strip line mark will break and you'll be able to see it !!!   :thumb:

I have slippage marks on all of my engine mount top nuts - to let me know that the bottom nut is turning and the engine will be out of alignment if I don't get the bottom nut tightened (mount raised) so the top nut slippage mark is back in line!!  Clear as mud??? 

I would NOT use Locktight (red) you might consider using Locktight (blue) as a last resort if the nuts are infact backing off!!   :cry4`

A few thoughts

4
Thanks Craig.

I spoke with PYI and they recommended replacing the nuts.

Check with PYI, they're in Lynnwood, Washington on PDT. They sell these couplings.

https://www.pyiinc.com/flexible-shaft-couplings.html

Craig

5
Good to know!  I've got a call into a chandlery to source the parts. 

I didn't have any luck at 2 autoparts stores, and struck out at CT.

Just a followup.  My boat is now launched and the speed transducer that didnt work before (in the water) now works great with the new paddle wheel and pin.

6
Main Message Board / Re: Electrical Connections under Pedestal
« on: April 01, 2021, 07:34:21 PM »
Thanks!

I have 5 more chainplates and the all stantions to do.  I find Bed It easier to work with than 3M.

I'm actually looking forward to do it in a way!

Nice job, pb. 

We've suggested Bed-It often.  I use it on my chainplates, too, and there's a link with pictures in the 101 Topic thread.  I no longer use silicone on my boat EXCEPT for the Beckson portlights.

I haven't checked, but please be aware that not all butyl tape is the same, and Maine Sail's is superior to many others, he did the research and homework to get "The Right Stuff."

7
Ah! Thanks for the explanation. 

So loctite can be used with the nylon nuts?  Do you think it best to get new ones?

Also, did you just go with a regular nut with the blue loctite for the fine thread bolt?

Hmm.  How do you determine those values?

I emailed R&D marine, but they are GMT, so closed at the moment.  Hopefully they can help.

The link indicates torque numbers, but I'm not sure which is correct. http://www.randdmarine.com/flexiblescinst.asp

Can you loctite those nuts?  I have Loctite 222 low strength.  Maybe something higher?  This is something that should never be backing off unless deliberately removed.

You know, I didn't check if they are nylon to be honest.  It's just what the kind people here have been mentioning...maybe they aren't nylon?

pb, the reason they are suggesting they are nylocks nuts is because of the shape.  Looking at your photo in your OP, there is the body of the nut with a slight dimple and bump above.  Compare that to the nut at the bottom of that same bolt (or machine screw).  Often folks put nylocks in that kind of situation because there isn't room for a regular nut and lock washer, like yours.

I have had a coupling that for many years had a propensity for throwing nuts off the coupling bolts.  Mine is a standard box and coupling, but same concept, same issue.  Because of space or lack thereof in front of the coupling, I resorted to fine thread bolts and loctite blue, because I couldn't get a lock washer (neither split or star) in there.  Once I did that they stayed in place.  The fine threads helped.

You really don't need any torque tables for this, tighten them, use locktite.  If they ever do pop off, my experience is that they end up right below where they fell off.  Ask me how I know...  :D

Good luck.

8
Main Message Board / Re: Engine loosing coolant
« on: April 01, 2021, 04:46:31 PM »
I will keep it in mind.  At the moment the amount in the bilge points to something else, but you never know!

>>> Fortunately she's never seen seawater.  Not that you can't have problems, but corrosion issues are likely to be less of an issue.<<>

My M-25 was always freshwater (Ontario/Erie) and developed the pinhole Hx leak (2” Hx) about 11-12 years young, maybe 3-4 years after I got her.

9
Hmm.  How do you determine those values?

I emailed R&D marine, but they are GMT, so closed at the moment.  Hopefully they can help.

The link indicates torque numbers, but I'm not sure which is correct. http://www.randdmarine.com/flexiblescinst.asp

Can you loctite those nuts?  I have Loctite 222 low strength.  Maybe something higher?  This is something that should never be backing off unless deliberately removed.

You know, I didn't check if they are nylon to be honest.  It's just what the kind people here have been mentioning...maybe they aren't nylon?

If you can’t find a manual or instructions for torque you can always go generic. There’s tables online for torque values by bolt/thread size/type. i.e., (just a made up example) grade 5, steel 3/8” UNC (coarse pitch) or UNF (fine pitch) thread, max torque = nn ft-lbs.

In that application I’d think I’d trust lock tight, or lock washer, or spring lock, or deformed locking nut - over a nylock.  No data, just my gut.

10
Main Message Board / Re: Electrical Connections under Pedestal
« on: April 01, 2021, 03:55:44 PM »
Yes it is.  I got it from here:  https://www.marineoutfitters.ca/index.cfm?category=10427%7C11795&product=54069231&code=BIBT

I believe it is also available directly.  The name is 'Bed It butyl tape'.  https://shop.marinehowto.com/products/bed-it-tape

It was actually fun to use.   :wink:

I would read https://marinehowto.com/bed-it-tape/ on the correct approach.  I was unable to counter sink the holes, because the holes are huge and probably only an oil drilling rig has a bit that size, and the wires for the pedestal also run through the guard. 

That being said I plugged the hole with butyl, and after the guard was placed on the deck again covering the holes, I added about a 1/4" around the tubing at the deck level, so that when the plate comes down it sealed the tube to plate gap.  Hopefully that makes sense!  Sorry I didn't take photos as I was under the gun weather wise.

Also, the how to mentions to repeat tightening over time as it will compress out slowly.  This is true.  I tightened 3 times over 30 minutes until I got no movement from the screws.

NOTE: They are screws not bolts so don't over torque. I used cordless drill and set the clutch on 3 and worked my way up until I was getting reasonable torque.  It wouldn't take much to strip the hole.

NOTE NOTE: For me I had 4 screws, port and starboard, from the other side (under cockpit area, where steering quadrant is) of the aft berth wood panel holding the panel on.  I had to reach through and blindly unscrew them.  The bottom 3-4 screws on the inside of the aft berth were not the only screws holding it in place. 

Took me a while to figure this out!

I have to do this same repair.  Is that butyl you used?

11
Main Message Board / Re: Engine loosing coolant
« on: April 01, 2021, 03:30:49 PM »
Fortunately she's never seen seawater.  Not that you can't have problems, but corrosion issues are likely to be less of an issue.

That is a very good tip for a coolant leak, and something to keep in mind!  God forbid I need that knowledge but I won't forget it! Thanks!

Well actually removing/checking under the caps should be annual maintenance to assure there’s nothing blocking the small diameter tubes in the Hx.  When you remove the cap sometimes you see the gasket had swollen or bulged and maybe not making complete contact (replace them) since there’s only the center bolt (unlike a pump that has multiple pressure point bolts) sometimes the covers gets bent as well.

BUT if you’re POSITIVE it’s engine coolant it wouldn’t be caps or the anode (they’re on the seawater side of the Hx, the coolant side is closed so to speak.  A VERY long shot, there’s ONE time you could get mixed coolant and seawater out the caps or anode.  If a pinhole develops in the Hx in one of the small tubes that carry the seawater (happened to mine) the “radiator cap” pressure pushes coolant thru the pinhole into the seawater side (typically gets carried out the exhaust but (unlikely) a trace of coolant could leak from any hose carrying the mixture.)  The coolant level keeps disappearing and the engine overheats with no obvious cause (you don’t realize the dropping coolant level is disappearing out behind the boat.)

PS - if that happens to limp back loosen the pressure cap so the coolant isn’t forced out thru the pinhole (and slow down!) You may boil off coolant and need to keep a sharp eye, but won’t lose as much coolant as it being forced out the exhaust under pressure.

12
Main Message Board / Re: Engine loosing coolant
« on: April 01, 2021, 03:27:17 PM »
What if it's not coolant!?? I have years ahead of me! :D

pby : To check if it is coolant, just take a drop and taste it. If it's sweet it coolant!!

A thought

13
Good to know! I was having nightmares about pulling the shaft out to get enough room...   :shock:

It does seem in the photo that some have some thread peeking out.  I'll have to look in person.

Are these nuts reusable, or should I be replacing them for new ones to get the best adhesion from the nylon nuts? 

Also, I'm assuming I tighten to something like tight plus a 1/3 turn?

Guys : I agree with Kevin, that flexible coupling was not installed properly!!!

It appears that the nuts are nylon lock nuts and NO torque is required!!  With that type of nut the normal rule is to have at least 1 (best 2) thread showing!!  I believe that the bolts with the nuts on the transmission side just need to be tightened so there is 1-2 threads outside the nut!!

If you can't get a thread on the outside of the nuts, then get a thinner lock nut!!  Simple as that !!

A few thoughts

14
That looks like a close match.  How do you take the bolts out without completely disassembling the unit?

Looks like an R&D brand?
http://www.randdmarine.com/flexiblesc.asp

15
At the moment I don't know who makes it.  I'll make another trip to the boat and see if I can find something on it that will identify the manufacturer.

Who are the top manufactures for couplers?  Maybe I can get lucky searching their site.

Ditto what Jim said.  Coupler manufacturer should have torque specs for bolting on the coupler.  I changed my coupler in December and used the torque specs from Buck Algonquin (non flexible).

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