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Messages - Peggie Hall

#1
I already have 50 ft of the Trident 101 hose at the boat ready to go (it was cheaper to buy a hole 50' than the 36' I measured.

Trident 101 is a great choice...as long as your hose runs are straight.  Bu not the best choice if there are bends in the run tighter than a gentle sweep 'cuz it's stiff as an ironing board and you should NEVER heat a hose to make it bend tighter than it wants to bend willingly...that stretches the "skin" on the outside of the radius, which can lead to tears in it...weakens the inside of the radius, which can result in a kinked hose. So if a bend is tight, you need to break the hose and insert an in-line radius fittings. One or two in a long run is ok...more than that needs a softer more flexible hose.

I'd like to keep the tank in it's current location but am open to changing that decision if necessary.

From what you say about the hose run, that should be possible...though it may require a downhill run that's bit steeper than what you have now.

Adding a new location to the bow end of the tank seems easy enough. Any suggestions on the best way to seal up the current vent hole at the aft end of the tank?

As I said above...a threaded plug--available from any hardware store--wrapped in plenty of Teflon tape is all that' needed. 

I'm assuming base on what input I've heard so far and what I've picked up on from other threads, the current through hull for the vent hose is much too low and too close to the waterline. Is that correct?

Yup...it is.   It shouldn't be any lower than a foot below the toe rail and should be as far forward as you can put it. You want it to be as straight as possible and we want it to be 1".   

If you plan to do any extended blue water sailing, we may need to put a shutoff valve on it, to prevent taking on water through the vent in seas heavy enough to keep the thru-hull under water for extended periods...which won't be a problem 'cuz you'll have modified the plumbing to let you flushing direct overboard in open sea.

I have another question regarding the hoses and diverter valve at the bottom of the tank leading to the pump-out and/or the overboard discharge. Does this all need to stay above the bottom level of the tank so waste doesn't rest in any of the hoses? I was planning on going strait out of the tank with a strait connection to the diverter valve. Now, I'm second guessing that and thinking that I should keep the 90 degree elbow and run the hose upwards from there to some degree.

How much clearance do you have above the tank?  If at least 5", we can move the discharge fitting(s) to the top of the tank with pickup tube(s) inside the tank.  If you don't have that much, we need to aim a 90 discharge fitting straight up and use a piece of hard sched 80 to the top of the tank, then switch to hose to go to the y'valve and then the o'board discharge pump--both of which can be high--and then to the thru-hull.

#2
Hi y'all! Stu sent me an SOS saying somebody needs help sorting out how to straighten a sanitation plumbing nightmare.  After spending an hour or more trying unsuccessfully to figure out where to jump in, I asked him to create a new "companion" thread. 'cuz that one had gotten so long with so many photos,comments and reposts of both that I can't sort it all out. So let's start from scratch...here's my take from what I  was able to sort out:

The v-berth is the ideal location for a holding tank on a sailboat UNLESS that would put it more than about 6-8' of plumbing run from the toilet...and from what I'm guessing from some of the comments, it's a LOT further than that from the toilet on this boat.  How far??  Can it be plumbed to get a lot of help from gravity to get it there...iow, a short uphill run immediately after the toilet to a loop that's just slightly higher than the tank inlet, then downhill the rest of the way to the tank?
It would be easy...It only needs to slope a few degrees.  The only problem may be how to avoid a run of exposed hose, which of course would not be acceptable!

If not possible, the best answer may be a new tank in a new location closer to the the head. Venting it to keep it aerobic--which is necessary to prevent odor out the vent--would be more of a challenge, but do-able and the cost of  new tank would be offset by the amount you save on the hose 'cuz you'd need a lot less.  Ronco Plastics (they've made tanks for Catalina for years, btw) will have one for a VERY reasonable price.

However, if we leave the tank under the v-berth, IMO, instead of trying to figure out how to modify the existing plumbing "design," it'll be a whole bunch easier to come up with a good design if you pull it ALL out--including the tank--and start over.  And the first thing I'd do is relocate the vent fitting to the bow end of the tank (very easy to do, thanks to a li'l gadget called the Uniseal   http://www.aussieglobe.com/ )--and btw, make this one 1"--preferably ON the top of the tank if you have at least 3" clearance above it...otherwise at the top of the bow end.  Seal the existing vent fitting with a threaded plug wrapped in plenty of Teflon tape.  That will give you a straight run to a new thru-hull only about a foot below the toe rail, which is high enough to keep it out of the water at max heel. Don't worry about a little splashing.   And use sanitation hose, not water hose,  this time!  Shields or Trident #148 is ok for vent lines and toilet intake lines.

Those are my opening thoughts...what if anything am I missing that makes any of it unworkable?   If you want to import a photo from the first "edition" of this thread, please just include a link to it instead?

#3
Main Message Board / Re: Holding Tank Vent Option
April 24, 2012, 09:40:20 PM
I think you may live to regret using copper in a sanitation system, cuz even fumes from a tank are highly corrosive.
#4
Main Message Board / Re: waste through hull for ac
April 10, 2012, 09:24:01 AM
 A hole in the boat is a hole in the boat...nothing unique about any of 'em, so although I wouldn't use the same thru-hull to combine black or gray water discharge and AC water discharge, there's no reason why any unused thru-hull can't can't be "repurposed."

The only caveat:  you don't want a clean water intake thru-hull close enough to a gray or black water discharge thru-hull to risk pulling IN the "dirty" discharge from it.  Doesn't appear that's a risk in this case.
#5
Main Message Board / Re: Macerator question
April 06, 2012, 08:16:39 PM
You're at least a whole day's sail from any waters in which it would be legal to dump a tank, so I'd remove it, along with the y-valve or tee fitting and any hose to and from it..'cuz lack of use for an extended period is FAR more destructive to equipment than heavy continuous use.  If/when you're ever able to cruise--really CRUISE, not just spend a weekend--outside LIS, it's a simple matter to install a new one and the necessary plumbing.
#6
Main Message Board / Re: Holding Tank Second Vent
April 02, 2012, 07:31:50 AM
The physical location of an added second vent seems very similar to having as a test, a modified pump out cap with a vent hole in it.

Won't work...'cuz the pumpout line comes from the bottom of the tank...it can't provide a source of air above the surface. At best it could prevent a tank implosion from the suction of an excessively strong pumpout.

I'm trying to have the "phone call with Peggy" about this very topic also, I just can't find the time during the day to call.

So what's stopping you from letting me know what WILL work for you?

#7
Main Message Board / Re: Holding Tank Second Vent
March 30, 2012, 10:48:22 AM
...I have 1988 and I see no viable way of using option 3 with a 1" fitting on my tank, there simply isn't any room on top of the tank under the hardboard cover for a fitting and hose...,

Where on the tank is the existing vent fitting--on the top, or AT the top of a vertical surface?  In either case, is it closer to the hull or closer to the centerline of the boat?
#8
Main Message Board / Re: Holding Tank Second Vent
March 29, 2012, 10:57:32 AM
Quote from: Jim Hardesty on March 29, 2012, 08:18:19 AM
My thought is with 1 vent line the tank would only vent.  In..Out no sizable exchange of air.  With 2 vents, an exchange of air(oxygen).  Is this a good theory? Jim

That depends on how long the vent line is, size of the diameter, whether it's straight or has bends in it, and how steep the rise is.

A 1" vent line that's absolutely straight, no more than 5' long, doesn't rise more steeply than 45 degrees, AND has nice open bulkhead thru-hull with no cover or screen in it will exchange air with the gasses in the tank just fine.  The longer and/or steeper the line, the harder time it has exchanging air...bends in the line make it impossible. When none or most of the above is possible, a second vent may be needed...sometimes aeration is the only solution.

In a perfect world, all toilets would be right behind the v-berth...the tank would be under the v-berth...and the vent line would run forward off the top of the bow end of the tank to exit the hull about 2' aft of the stem, about a foot below the toe rail. 'Cuz that guarantees that air will be continuously forced into the vent any time the boat is underway or on a mooring or anchor.  Unfortunately, boat builders often have a different idea what makes a perfect world, so we have to work with what the give us.


#9
Main Message Board / Re: Holding Tank Second Vent
March 28, 2012, 07:06:13 PM
1.  replace the current "L" with a "T" and vent both lines using the existing vent hole.

Definitely NOT an option...nor is any other idea that would connect two vent lines a viable option...'cuz the air will just travel across the top  of the tee instead of going through the tank.

I like #3: Add the second vent somewhere on the top...you'd need about 3" clearance above the tank.

IMO a Uniseal http://www.aussieglobe.com/uniseal1.htm is the easiest way to put a new fitting into a plastic tank--which is what your tank SHOULD be if it's a Catalina OEM tank...no locknuts or anything else that would require acess to the inside of the tank needed.

We may need to have a phone chat to sort out the best way to do this. 30 minutes on the phone will accomplish more than 50 more posts here.  Send me an email if you'd like to take me up on that offer.
#10
Quote from: Roc on March 26, 2012, 04:15:43 AM
Cory,
Why not use the tank gage system advertised here:
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,2682.0.html
This has no parts that go into the tank that can get fouled up.  I have the original Accu-gage, which was the precursor to this. It works great.

That's the one I'd recommend.  Dennis provides the best customer service on the planet, too.
#11
If yours is the PHC--the compact version of the PH II--there is no shroud (cover) for the base...only for the full size PH II>
#12
A VERY fine job, except for one li'l thing...

Clear plastic potable water hose is the wrong hose for a head intake line (or tank vent line either)...'cuz it's not rated for below--waterline connections...and...it's gonna start to turn black and yucky looking very quickly, which will provide the excuse you need to swap it out for the Shields or Trident #148 white hose you should have used in the first place.

Don't feel bad...there are boat builders who don't know any better either...they use it, prob'ly for the same reason you did--because it's a lot cheaper than even #148 sanitation hose.
#13
I didn't get any email till last night...and I've replied. We CAN fix this!
#14
I've even tried pumping the head 4 or 5 times per day just to add fresh air to the tank. 

That doesn't accomplish anything.

However it may be possible that the municipal water at the marina has too much chlorine in it for Odorloss to work.  Is that a possibility?

Nope...

I can't add a better vent so I'm stuck with what I've got. 

Yes, you can! 

Other research points out that powered tank ventilators don't work either.

Do you want to solve this problem or just whine about it?  If you want to solve it, email me!
#15
Odor is always a result of insufficient oxygen...and if Odorlos--which helps to promote oxygen release from the waste itself--isn't working, NOTHING will...which means your tank vents are only allowing gasses to be forced OUT, they're not allowing any exchange of air with those gasses.  It's fixable...email me and we'll figure out what you need to do.