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What would the cost be from this company for a basic set of cruising sails?

I never got a quote from them for traditional cross-cut dacron sails. They are easy to get in touch with. They are in Hong Kong, but they reply to emails promptly with a day's delay for the time zones.

www.direct-sails.com

You'll probably be working with a guy named Richard. He's a good guy and very knowledgeable. I talked to him one time, most of the transaction was done via email.

A couple more pictures from this weekend.

I don't have them set very well. This is my first loose-footed mainsail and I clearly don't have enough outhaul tension. I was having trouble getting enough twist out of the main and my theory is that the loose outhaul was the culprit.

Also, the jib halyard was too loose leading to some wrinkles at the luff. As we get used to the sails, we can get better shape out of them.

Even with the sub-optimum set, she was pretty fast. The thing I really noticed is the reduction in weather helm and the tendency to round up in the gust. I'm happy with the initial results.

Jack 

Jack,

Your new sails look very nice. The bad news is if you get into racing your mid life crisis will not be contained with a new set of sails. In racing whether it be with sails, wheels, or wings you'll always be looking for a way to go faster and going faster is expensive.

There is no doubt you can go crazy spending money on sails. For fun, I got some quotes on "high end" sails. They quickly got to the point that it would cost a substantial percentage of what I paid for the boat. It made no sense to me to spend that kind of money for C34 sails.

The sails I got from the loft I bought them from were only 15% - 20% more than traditional cut dacron sails. My spreadsheet says I spent an additional $1800 for the Contender CDX Pro fabric and the tri-cut radial design. I think it was worth it.

Even if I still get beat like a rented mule, they do look cool.

Jack

Jack : Glad that things worked out OK for you. 8932 is your racing numbers?

A thought

Ron

8932 is not a true "racing number" issued by US Sailing. It's my dad's birthday. Direct-Sails puts a number on for no additional charge. I thought I'd use it to pay a little homage to my father who was a lifelong sailor.

Jack

I bought my Catalina 34 this spring knowing that the sails were blown and that I'd be ordering new sails promptly. At first, I thought I'd get a suit of traditional cut Dacron sails and be done with it. But once I started shopping I started thinking about triradial cut sails in one of the laminated sailcloths. There is a fairly active club racing scene on the lake and I wanted to be competitive. My first thought was that putting "racing" sails on a cruising boat would be silly. Upon reflection, I started thinking "why not?". It's not a Porsche, so if my mid-life crisis is contained to upgraded sails, I'm doing pretty good.

I got quotes from Precision, Quantum, and Evolution for a triradial cut Main and 135% Genoa. After some research, I settled on Contender CDX pro sailcloth for a good mix of price, durability, and performance. I got the quotes back and started having second thoughts about indulging my mid-life crisis; they were expensive.

Along the way, I came across a place called Direct-Sails (www.direct-sails.com). At first, I was ruling them out because they do not have a US presence at all. The sales and design office is in Hong Kong and the actual loft is in Shenzen China. I got a quote from them and the price difference was too big to ignore. Roughly 30% less than the name brands.

Along the way, I also learned that all the big lofts have their sails made somewhere in Asia; Vietnam, China, etc... Even North Sails has sails in the C34 size range made in Sri Lanka. Unless you have your sails made at a local loft, they are coming out of Asia. Well, there is no local loft in the middle of Missouri.

After a lot of correspondence with Direct-Sails, I became convinced that they are a legit business and loft and PayPaled off half the money.

We went through about a week of measuring and double-checking and they released the design to manufacturing. I had the sails about a month after that which includes the shipping time.

The upshot is that it was a great experience. They did everything they said they'd do and beat the delivery time by a week. They fit perfectly, and I can't find any quality problems at all. The stitching is excellent and all the material and hardware is top notch.

We are in the middle of the summer doldrums in the Midwest and I've only had the new sails out once with light wind. So, I can't attest to the performance of the boat with them. But they fit perfectly and look great. I'm sure they will be a big improvement over the blown-out bedsheets I took off.

I've got a few pictures and I plan to take more this weekend (hopefully with more wind).

Jack 



 

[Generally Aft:]

If you look at the weights of things, this is what I'm coming up with

Generally Aft:

Diesel: 25 gallons @ 6 pounds per gallon plus the weight of the tanks & plumbing. 175 Pounds sounds about right.

Engine: Universal 25XP, 285 Pounds. Plus Muffler and other plumbing & Fittings. Estimate total 400 Pounds

Generally near Center:

Waste Tank: 30 Gallons at 8 pounds per gallon (240) plus tank & Plumbing. Around 275 pounds

Forward Water Tank: 26 Gallons, 208 Pounds. Plus tank & plumbing around 235 Pounds in total.

In general terms, you are removing 575 pounds that are generally aft and around 510 pounds that are generally near the center. What we don't yet know is the weight of the electric motor, controller and the various wires and dodads. Taking it all out, the boat should remain pretty well balanced.

Where to put the big battery? Probably anywhere would be Ok given the relatively balanced weight coming out.  However, I still think putting it behind where the engine was would keep it low for stability and keep the heavy wire runs short. And it would probably be the best place for balance.





 

This seems like a classic aircraft Weight & Balance problem. It's not very hard, just need to know the weight and arm for the items being removed & installed. Also need to know the boat's current CG (center of gravity) with respect to some "datum" (bow, stern, mast).

Once you have all that it's just arithmetic to know how much you've moved the CG. Ideally I think you'd like to keep it the same to make sure she still floats on her lines.

If you would like to math this out, let me know, I can help.

I am looking for a favorable place to have the large battery bank.

The dimensions are 38"Long X 15"Wide x 10 height.

what do you guys think would be the best place?. all tanks on the boat are going to be replaced so i have many options. Keep in mind, i wont have a gas tank.

I'm wondering what the battery bank weighs. It would seem the weight would have a big impact on the importance of its location.

My back of the napkin math says it should weigh about 300 Pounds.

Could you put it somewhere near where the engine is? That would keep it low and on the center line. That seems ideal.

Robert

I'm not sure your idea of using a Honda 2000 Generator to extend range is going to work. The "2000" is for Watts, so it puts out 2KW. Your electric motor needs 12KW at full power, so the generator is not even close. You should expect more like 1/6th power from the generator. Maybe that would move you along at a knot or two.

If you think about it for a minute, you can't expect to replace a 3 cylinder diesel with a one cylinder gas engine and get the same amount of power. Having 2KW in reserve for docking might be nice for docking, but you're not going to cover miles with it.

Also, just looking at it without any inefficiency, it would take that 2Kw generator 10 hours to recharge your 20KW battery bank from zero.

I hate to sound like a nattering nabob of negativity, but there are some serious technical hurdles.

I'm very interested in this project. I've been reading up on it and naturally watching YouTube videos. For my use, boat on an inland lake in Missouri, I think it makes a lot of sense. Kick it in and out of the slip, motor about a mile to get out of the cove where you put the sails up. Very little range is required.

What worries me about your application is this quote: "We endup motorsailing a significant amount".

If you do the simple math you can get an idea of the range. 12KW motor and a 20KW battery, you can run it at full power for 1.67 hours. At 6.5 Knots that would give you a range of around 11NM. Of course, you can pull the power back go slower and extend the range. Say at 1/2 power you'd be drawing 6KW and the battery would last 3.3 hours. But then you be going slower, say 4.5 knots, and your range would be around 15 NM. Not very far for a cruising boat that may need to cover some miles when the wind is light.

I have another sailboat boat on Lake Michigan. It's not uncommon for us to just put the hammer down and motor 50NM in a day to make it to somewhere before it gets dark. It would take an unreasonable amount of batteries to make that happen.

Overall I like the idea of electric propulsion in a sailboat. We all hate listening to the diesel. However, you just can't beat the energy density of diesel fuel if you need range.

Jack