Messages

[WHEN UNDER SAIL OR BEING TOWED]

I also found this interesting tidbit in the manual, which goes contrary to the advice I was given to always lock the prop in reverse when sailing:

WHEN UNDER SAIL OR BEING TOWED
Rotation of the propeller without load, such as when the boat
is being sailed, being towed, or anchored in a river, as well as
operation of the engine with the propeller stopped (for
charging the battery), will have no detrimental effects on the transmission.

What is the prevailing wisdom on this from the C34 community? Obviously, letting the prop free-wheel would improve sailing speed due to less resistance, but I had heard that it would wear out the gearbox, although the manual seems to suggest that it will not.

If it's freewheeling, in neutral, then it's turning with no load (i.e., not detrimental as stated). 
So is locking it in reverse not detrimental -- so with a 2-blade you can position the cups vertical (cuts drag.)
Don't lock it in forward.

-kk

I have 3 blade non-folding prop, so locking in reverse really increases drag. I'd love to leave it in neutral for less drag, but had always been told not to do this. I guess it's OK unless someone else says they saw increased wear on gearbox or packing gland.

Have you checked the Critical Upgrades topic?  IIRC, there's a link to the Westerbeke service bulletins.

I could not find a link by manually scanning the topic. Most message boards have a "search within topic" option, but I can't find it here. Am I missing it? Searching the whole message board generated too many spurious hits.

I did find some TSBs on the Westerbeke website. The one on shift lever (SB36) seemed to just say the same thing that the manual already says.

[WHEN UNDER SAIL OR BEING TOWED]

Break : Have you checked the service bulletin from Westerbeke on the shifting adjustments on the Hurth 100/ZF10 transmissions??

A thought 

I have both the operators manual and the service manual for the M35B, which includes specs and illustrations for adjusting the travel of the shift lever on Hurth transmissions (1 3/8" minimum travel in both directions). However, your use of the word "service bulletin" implies a revision to the original manual. Google failed to generate any hits on a "service bulletin". So if you could point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.

I also found this interesting tidbit in the manual, which goes contrary to the advice I was given to always lock the prop in reverse when sailing:

WHEN UNDER SAIL OR BEING TOWED
Rotation of the propeller without load, such as when the boat
is being sailed, being towed, or anchored in a river, as well as
operation of the engine with the propeller stopped (for
charging the battery), will have no detrimental effects on the transmission.

What is the prevailing wisdom on this from the C34 community? Obviously, letting the prop free-wheel would improve sailing speed due to less resistance, but I had heard that it would wear out the gearbox, although the manual seems to suggest that it will not.

Oh, that's the opposite end of what I was thinking. Probably more accessible there.

While I have the compass off, is there anything else I should do? Lubricate the steering chain? (If there is a chain)

I'll dive into the manual next time I get to the boat. But in the meantime, any tips and tricks for how to do the adjustment would be appreciated. I assume there is an adjustable nut and locknut at one end of the shift cable outer sheath, presumably at where it attaches to the transmission. Any suggestions of where to find it, how to easily access it, and what direction/how far to turn it, may help reduce my trial-and-error.

Or if there's a link to a tech article somewhere that would be even better.

My boat has some inconsistency when shifting into forward. I have had similar problems with charter boats before, so I think it may be a common problem.

Due to the shape of the Edson shift levers, they hit against the SS pedestal guard tube, preventing the levers from going forward as far as they might otherwise. As a result, it seems like the shift lever does not always get the boat into forward.

My workaround for now has been the same thing I did on similar charter boats: Push the shift lever into forward as firmly as I can, and wait a second until I hear it go into forward gear before I apply any additional throttle.

Once every few weeks it does not go into forward at all on the first try, and I need to pull the lever back to the neutral detente position and do it again. Fortunately this has not happened during any critical docking maneuvers. And so far, it has always gone into forward on the second attempt. I always worry that I may get to a point where it does not go into forward at all.

My concern is that if I attempt to adjust the shift cable to go into forward more readily, the boat may not go into reverse reliably, or may not go into neutral at the middle detent position. So before experimenting I thought I would pick your brains for any similar experiences and suggestions for how to solve this problem.

I have the transducer paint. I use it on my depth sensor every year. This year I also put it on the dummy plug prior to launch. If I had been thinking, I would have cleaned up the paddlewheel and painted it before launch. But the boat was launched immediately after survey before I bought her, and she stayed in the water until we took possession. So there was really no time that I owned the boat while on the hard.

I'm fine with apparent wind for the rest of this season. I'll clean up the paddle, paint it and insert it while on the hard this winter. Then I'll have all the time I need to figure out how to maneuver around the A/C unit and quickly do the insertion.

I also keep the speed log out and leave the blank plug in.  This is because it fouls up so quickly, and it's a hassle to always install and remove.  I also have SOG shown on the display.  Like you, my apparent wind and true wind are nearly identical, and it's because the speed log is not getting "boat speed".  I once talked with a fellow and he said there is a setting that can be made to show true/apparent by not using the speed log but with SOG, but never got around to research it.  I've just been living with not showing True/apparent.  One of these days, I would  like to get a transducer that gains boat speed without the paddle wheel.  But those are way too expensive right now.

Thanks for the helpful info. I've never had a paddlewheel transducer, and not particularly interested because of my suspicion that it would foul too easily. Your local knowledge confirms this, and is especially relevant since we share the same water.

I sure would like to know how I could set the instrument to accept SOG as a substitute. I see no mention of it in the manual. I've registered in the Raymarine support forum, but it's over 24 hours now and they still have not approved my registration. Until my membership is approved, there is no way to even contact them about their slow approval process. Ugh!

What marina are you in?

Actually the Raymarine ST60 requires speed through water (your disconnected paddlewheel) to compute true wind. Direct from their sales page for the ST60  http://www.raymarine.com/view/?id=595 . Reconnect your paddlewheel and presto you should have what you need.

Tony

By the way, that's the page for ST60+, not ST60. It makes no difference to me, but want to make sure someone doesn't get confused between the two.)

Reconnecting the paddlewheel is not as easy as it might seem. Unfortunately my paddlewheel is in a very inconvenient location. The air conditioner tray was installed right over top the through hull, which makes it all but impossible to reach. If I could contort my arm and wrist to get to it, I am really concerned that I might get the blank plug out, and not be able to get the angle right to get the paddlewheel (or the blank) back in. Meanwhile, the water would continue to pour into the bilge. I'll save this until I'm on the hard over the winter, then I'll test to see if I can reach everything.

Also, my paddlewheel is not free-wheeling. It has severe resistance, so it needs servicing. I can't figure out a way to disconnect the cable to get it to a work bench where I might be able to do some decent cleaning on it. (Any hints on how to do this?)

[My configuration]

I've registered for the Raymarine support forum, but their site admins are taking their dear old time approving my membership. In the meantime, I am hoping that one of you might have a hint or two to help me address my problem:

My configuration:

I have ST60 Wind, Speed, and Depth transducers, ST4000+ wheel pilot, and a Garmin 2010 chartplotter. These instruments came with my new (to me) boat. I did not install them.

My speed transducer's paddlewheel is sitting in the bilge. I have the blank in the through-hull, and have the speed control head set to display SOG.

My background:
I have had Raymarine ST60 instruments on a past boat, and have quite a bit of interfacing experience with SeaTalk and NMEA 0183 protocols.

What works:
My wind transducer shows apparent wind fine. It may need a little tweaking of the calibration, but it's not terrible, and I have more important things to fix first.

What's broken:
The wind transducer is not showing the correct true wind. It shows exactly the same speed for true wind that it does for apparent wind, regardless of speed or direction of the boat. True direction is also almost the same too (within a few degrees). I can be motoring 5 kts straight into a 5 kt wind, and both true and apparent wind will show up as 10 kts. I can be sailing on a broad reach, and true/apparent wind speed are the same, and direction almost exactly the same. The direction agrees with visual observation of my masthead Windex.

The first hypothesis might be that the instrument is not getting any speed data, or is getting a value of zero (since true=apparent when speed=0). But the speed control head shows SOG just fine. Although I have not opened up the NavPod to view the wiring, I assume that the chartplotter's output wires are connected to the NMEA input terminal on the Autopilot, and the Autopilot is passing that data through to the SeaTalk netowork. That's the only way I can see that the speed control head would be able to display SOG.

So this leaves the question: Why isn't the wind transducer making the appropriate vector calculations to display the correct true speed and direction?

I've looked through the manual and cannot find any settings to change speed input (for instance, from SOW to SOG). So I'm stumped.

Zippers would be nice, but I'm cheap! We simply loosen the "topping lift (it's not really a topping lift, as we have a solid boom vane that supports the boom) run the forward Dutchman line toward the mast and the aft line to the end of the boom. We've been doing it this way for 18 years and never had a chaffing problem nor any clanging against the mast.

I am going to try this tomorrow and see how it works for us. That may be the final solution for our aging cover.

If that does not work, or the cover can regain significant life from some minor repairs and upgrades, I have found a marine seamstress who is highly recommended and reasonable.

I have done a very little bit of sewing, and my wife is pretty good, too. But it's too risky to cut these slits ourselves. Doing the job right, with proper chafe protection around the edges, fabric liner under the zipper, and flap to minimize moisture from rain running down the monofilament, is a detailed job for a beginner, so we will hire it out if we need to do it.

But something tells me that capndon's suggestion will work fine for us for the remaining life of the cover. Funny how I had tried running both lines forward, both lines aft, but never thought of one forward and one aft!

Are you able to slacken the Dutchman lines (not sure if you have the halyard or the topping lift system) such that the cover can go over the Dutchman lines with the lines coming out the bottom?

If not, we modified our cover by putting in zippers on one side and then canvas flaps around the top that are tied off with small lines.  That prevents rain from dripping down the Dutchman lines onto the sail.

I have the version with a halyard-style topping lift. From the cockpit, the pennant runs up the mast, over a masthead sheave, and down to the aft end of the boom.

I first tried just slackening the lines to rest on top of the sail. But if I lead them forward to the boom, the black plastic mono clamps can whack against the mast, especially in a blow. If I lead them back to the aft end of the sail cover, it seemed like it could become a potential chafe problem against the end of the cover. So my answer has been to completely lower the system (without detaching from the pockets) and attach the topping lift pennant to the end of the boom, then apply tension to the topping lift to support the boom and avoid chafe. I coil up the Dutchman stuff and tie it on top of the flaked sail, under the cover. I admit that this may be over-complicating things, but at least everything is secure, protected from UV, and I avoid halyard slap.

I need to re-inspect my sail cover. It might be in better shape than I realize, and thus worth modifying. Cutting slits will probably be the most efffective low-cost solution. It seems like adding toggles would require adding fabric for the needed overlap, but zippers could be done without adding much fabric if I get black ones that are more UV resistant. Maybe this could be a DIY solution, but not sure if our sewing machine is heavy-duty enough. (I'm tying to avoid buying a Sailrite.)

Related question: What are the zippered "pockets" at the foot of the sail used for? It seems like they're pretty much useless once the sail is flaked, because they are buried so deep.

My 2001 #1535 has the same fairleads. IIRC, the furler or spinnaker halyard goes through the port one. Right now nothing goes through the starboard one, but I've been debating whether to run main halyard or reefing line through it. As others have pointed out, it seems like it could add friction and a point for fouling.

My boat came with a Dutchman system. So far it has been a love/hate relationship. It actually works great once I have it up, and the sail raises easily and drops down into nice flakes. But since my sail cover does not have any zippered slits, I need to take the Dutchman down every time I cover the sail. Regardless of how hard I try to stow it as a neat coil, it invariably ends up as a twisted, tangled mess that is a pain to re-raise after uncovering the sail. So, I am looking for ideas.

• Do I have my sail cover modified with a couple zippered slits so I could leave it up? If so, are there any tricks to avoid rain from running down the monofilaments and onto the sail under the cover?
• Do I just remove the whole thing and manually flake my sail?
• Do I look into a Stack pack or Mack pack?
• Other ideas?

Modifying my cover seems the most straightforward solution, but the cover is old and may not be worth modifying. And if I need to buy a new cover anyway, the stack pack options might be only a little more expensive.

Thanks, Mainesail. Very eye-opening. My new (to me) boat has a 50 amp charger/1000w inverter.

Are you suggesting that we install a separate dedicated float charger that we should leave on, and turn the bigger charger off while away from the boat?