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One other comment... I was not expecting (naively, probably) such an affect on engine performance due to the new alternator. It really affects my motoring speed (1.5-2 kts)! I will probably add the Small Engine Mode switch to be able to cut back the alternator if/when more speed is needed. I do not like motoring. When I have no other choice, though, I might as well get where I am going as fast as I can.

So, I have had the Blue Circle Alternator rebuilt (again). This time by my more trusted local Auto Electric shop with high output testing equipment. They thought the BC alternator was undersized for 100 AMP. They replaced the Stator wires, added more robust diodes, and swapped the (in their view) worn pulley. They tested it on there load machine, and it easily maintained 100 AMPs out.

I re-installed it last week with a new Balmar alternator temperature sensor. I used my newly purchased belt tension tool to get the belt just right. That tool is a great addition to my bag, btw. It runs hot (as expected), but never gets above the default 107 C temperature threshold at the regulator. Everything seems to be working fine.

In the end, I could have almost paid for a decent Balmar alternator for the cost of the repairs of the BC alternator and my time. Buyer beware. I am not sure I could recommend buying an alternator from Blue Circle for this project. Maybe mine was just the exception, but it seems as if at least 1 or 2 other people have had the same experience. Too bad, because the rest of the project went fairly smoothly using the advice and assistance of the Catalina 34 Association.

Thanks for everyone's help. Now, on to the dedicated starting battery and the 95 W solar panel!!

I am going to take the alternator in to be checked out. It has to be removed to be repaired or replaced anyway. I have a very good shop around that I have used before (not the ones that fixed it after the first failure) who should be able to load test it to determine if the problem is with the BC alternator. I should have some information back by Thursday or Friday. In the meantime, I have also ordered a Balmar alternator temperature sensor. This seems prudent anyway regardless of what is determined since it is expected that this setup will run the alternator pretty hot. I will be out at the boat tonight to remove the alternator and will take notes or a picture of what is connected for more clarity in my description. Thanks for the input and help.

Eric

I checked the belt tension pretty closely, and it seemed right. As for the battery monitor, I checked the voltage after installing the repaired alternator. It was putting out the voltage as expected. I did not have a monitor on it when it failed because I thought it was in the clear. I was considering jumping the regulator into Small Engine Mode and possibly adding the temperature sensor due to running hot issues reported by others. It just seems that it should not be getting that hot that fast and burning out the alternator. The second time it failed, it was within a few minutes of running the RPMs at 2500 or so. Further, the batteries were fully charged so presumably the regulator should have been calling for little output. It was also running for some time (30 minutes) at a slow idle before without any visible issue. I read a lot of posts regarding the heat that this setup (100 AMP alternator, 3-stage regulator) can cause following the first failure, but none of those posts talked about the alternator getting so hot that it started smoking and fried.

Is that what happened in your experience?

It is annoying and a chore to get the alternator off, take it somewhere to be repaired, pick it up, and re-install it. I am hoping to avoid a lot of guess and check. I see you are in Chicago like me. I have taken an alternator to P & G Keene Electrical in Bridgeview before. they do a good job, but maybe you have another place you recommend. Thanks for the feedback.

Eric

I recently completed an upgrade of my original 1987 Catalina Motorola 55 AMP internally regulated alternator with the C34 project Electrical Upgrade recommendation of a Blue Circle 100 AMP alternator (perfect fit rebuilt alternator) and a new Balmar 3 stage external regulator. After many checks and heavy expectation of a wiring issue, the wiring appears to be correct. I have also connected the AO directly to the battery bank with a #2 wire. I have checked the voltages of the regulator and the alternator with expected outputs. Twice now, though, the alternator has overheated (quickly way too hot to touch), started to burn, and fried the diodes (perhaps not in that order). This occurred once with partially depleted batteries (4 T105s in series-parallel) and once after fully charged. After the local alternator shop replaced the diodes the first time, I completed some more further testing after the alternator was re-installed while connected to shore power and charging the batteries at various RPMs. Everything seemed to work correctly, no burn smell, and the expected voltage output. As soon as I left the dock and kicked up some RPMs, I could smell the alternator burning and then noticed the voltage drop to battery voltage.

I believe the new external regulator is working and the alternator seemed okay at first and then fixed, checked again to be working correctly. I certainly think that if I get the alternator fixed again, the same situation will occur. The only thing that "I think" occurs differently from when it has worked until it fails is:

1) connected to shore power and charging the batteries (this may or may not have been the case during the first failure)
2) slightly longer run time at higher RPMs (after leaving the dock)

I was heading out on a one week vacation on the boat, so I ran the engine with the key off after starting the engine to cut out the alternator output. I kept my batteries charged with a Honda geni and shore power while away. While continuing to diagnosis the issue, I fairly quickly slightly smell the burning from the alternator if I leave the key on after starting the engine. As expected, there is no charging voltage coming from the alternator.

Any thoughts on what might be causing this? I am at a loss unless there is actually a failure of the alternator or regulator which I do not think is likely the issue. The marina yard mechanics are also at a loss, but their skills (or patience to resolve an issue) are sometimes questionable.

Thanks once again to everyone's help. I will probably hold off on the galvanic isolator until my use of the boat changes. For posterity, attached is the final diagram of what I am planning to install. If I make any other changes along the way or have other suggestions on how to improve, I will update and post again. I could not have done this without a lot of great help from forums like this.

Eric

I will admit that I am mostly going for the general concept with all the different parts without trying to show every detail, but clearly grounds, etc. are important as well. Some of the alignment and choice of objects/labels are limited due to using Visio and trying to keep things readable. Nevertheless, I truly appreciate all feedback and do not want to get it wrong or lead anyone else astray.

For the PDP, NDP, and shunt, where are yours mounted? In the battery box, I assume. Where? I am envisioning some space limitations there. Did you use a piece of wood epoxied to the fiberglass to mount them to?

As for the DC disconnect, I thought it would be good (maybe suggested) to have a way to disrupt the DC power to the C/I with a disconnect if needed... like if I needed to service the unit or it was on fire ;-( Maybe this is not needed, and the Xantrex manual specifically suggests not using a battery isolator due to voltage drop.

I looked at some galvanic isolators and was disappointed (but not surprised) that they cost almost 50% of the price of the C/I. I understand what they are needed for, but I am wondering if in my case it is really needed. I keep my boat on a mooring 95% of the time. At most, I have shore power connected for a weekend and for a week once a year. That's why the battery and alternator upgrade is going to be such a great improvement. Also, I am in freshwater. If the recommendation is a resounding yes, I will spend the money. I do not want to damage my boat with galvanic corrosion due to this upgrade. I am wondering, though, if it is really a priority for me. Oh, and I don't know where I will find room to put it!

Below are 2 pictures of my nav desk to give you an idea of what I am working with. I need to fit a Blue Seas System Monitor (planned to go to the right of the legacy Link monitor) and the new Double Pole AC Main. I'll figure it out, I guess. I was just not planning on another thing to mount. Maybe I will have to build some more mounting space.

I am glad you like the design, Stu. It was mostly based on yours and the detailed posts, discussions of others on the C34 website!!!

Eric

Sorry, I just re-read Stu's post from back in early May and see that he made it clear that I should have the shore power AC go directly to the C/I (as pictured before and now again) with a 30 AMP breaker in between and then feed the existing AC panel. I will update the diagram again and re-post. Thanks for everyone's continued help.

Eric

Here's my update schematic which hopefully incorporates the correct updates from all of the helpful feedback. If this is right, the only thing I have left to buy is the new 30 AMP AC breaker and find room on my limited panel space. I also need to figure out how to build a base for the starter battery to be located in the aft cabin along the lines of what has been posted elsewhere on this site. Thanks.

Eric,

Could you let me know what program you used to do your schematic.

Thanks,

Ron,

I am just using MS Visio from my work PC. Not quite all the right symbols, but something usable for discussion and to follow later.

Eric

Sorry, I just re-read Stu's post from back in early May and see that he made it clear that I should have the shore power AC go directly to the C/I (as pictured before and now again) with a 30 AMP breaker in between and then feed the existing AC panel. I will update the diagram again and re-post. Thanks for everyone's continued help.

Eric

Maine Sail,

Thanks. I realize it is probably difficult to fully look over on a phone. Thanks for what you could provide. I knew about the galvanic isolator but forgot to include it. Should it be located before the AC breaker (on the boat) or after? Regarding the "shore power" breaker, do you mean that I should switch my AC Loads and Shore Power leads (i.e., place the C/I after the main boat AC selector) in my diagram or something else? I have updated the diagram with what I think you are referring to.

Eric

I appreciate the feedback. I have revised my schematics to incorporate much of the input including the AC side of the C/I. I was thinking that the AC circuit should be controlled from the boat panel, so that I could isolate the C/I. If I wire it like suggested (and shown in my drawing), I have to disconnect the shore power cable or switch the circuit breaker at the shore power station to interrupt power. Is this preferred over placing the C/I downstream of the boat's AC panel and then managing AC circuits on the boat via the C/I's remote control panel?

I have also added a DC disconnect dedicated to the C/I, so that I can interrupt the battery load if needed (i.e., for servicing and perhaps when leaving the boat for extended periods). BTW, the C/I is a Xantrex Freedom HF 1800.

Thanks again,
Eric

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Thanks, Mainesail. Your feedback on other discussion threads helped me get this far. In fact, you commented on my interconnect wiring in another thread. I appreciate it. Speaking of which, do you think the 1/0 wiring between my batteries in series-parallel will be sufficient with my planned install? I am trying to not waste the $60 investment in some already purchased wire and connectors, but will do so if it is not okay.

My thoughts on your feedback below:

"#1 No fuse needed at the alt end. Alts are "self limiting" and as cuh should not be able to "run away" or exceed the ampacity of the wire if the wire was sized right."

I assume you are referring to the 150 AMP MIDI fuse I have specified. I was not sure about this but would be happy to remove it for my diagram and to buy list. I guess you are saying a "short" is not really possible from the alternator if installed with the correct wire, so you do not need to fuse the wire as close as possible to the power source like other power sources. If so, I get it and will remove it.

"#2 You can't protect 2GA wire with a 300A fuse. The alternator wire needs it;s own fuse as do the "always on loads" as close to the "source" as possible. The source is the batteryr bank."

I was not attempting to protect 2GA wire with a 300A fuse but maybe that is what I have specified in my design. I assumed the alternator would not "pull" power and therefore was not an issue. If this is not the case, then I will add a 150A terminal fuse to the alternator bus bar connection. Does the 300A "main" battery terminal fuse seem appropriate for the rest of the design? I did not depict it, but will have in line fuses for any always on loads. That is just not part of my upgrades as they already exist.

"#3 The charger and echo charger wiring looks "switched". Not a good idea. You'll likely want to charge when away from the boat but you'll then need to leave the switch "ON" to do so."

This is in fact what I was trying to do. I had questions here, and I am glad you picked up on it. Is the situation of being able to charge the batteries (house from charger/inverter and starter from echo charger) that only "problem" you see? If so, I get that and think I prefer it. Or, is it a bigger problem with how the chargers might work or perform? It is the latter that I am not sure on. I thought it might even be bad that the echo charger continued to pull from the house bank even if I was away from the boat for several weeks while without shore power. I would also prefer to have a single disconnect for both the AC input (shore power) and DC input (house bank). If either is off, I know that I am not drawing current for either. Altogether it would be better to have an upgraded panel with more options, but that is for another year.

I am looking to install my system both correctly and per standards, so I will adjust if my "preferred" setup is not the best way.

Thanks again,
Eric

Thanks to the many wonderful posts on the C34 website, I think I am ready to tackle many much needed electrical upgrades on my 1987 C34. These include upgrading to 4 6V T105s, a high output externally regulated alternator, dedicated starting battery with echo charger, 1800W charger/inverter, and a battery monitor. I have procured the main components and am now zeroing in on wire, connectors, and fuses. I will be completing these upgrades in phases but in order to ensure I have the overall right approach, I have created a wiring diagram of the planned upgrades.

I have based much of my plans on the previously posted electrical upgrade details by Jim, Stu, and others. I am indebted to their generosity in sharing their information, approach, diagrams, and pictures! A few of the changes that I have made are the inclusion of a charger/inverter which (as I have read many posts about) requires very large 2/0 wire over a short distance AND a desire to keep the switch disconnects as simple as possible. I have read the many discussions about the different ways to utilize switches including the existing stock Perkins switch. I would like the primary "source" power (DC from batteries or AC from shore power) to be wired to switches on the existing Catalina AC/DC panels. I am going to replace the DC battery selector with a new Blue Sea e-series switch with has 3 positions for Off, On, and Combine (Emergency). Specifically, I want to wire all DC loads including the inverter and starting battery echo charger on this same switch. I would rather not have parallel or sub switches even though I do forgo some flexibility. I would also like to use some pre-purchased 1/0 wire and connectors for the battery interconnects but am not sure if this would be recommended with the 2/0 wire required for the inverter as a later part of the upgrades.

I have attached the document I created of my schematic. Please ignore some of my naivety in the diagram symbols. I think I pretty much used (or labeled) things correctly, but I am sure any electrical engineers would notice a few that are not correct ;-). Any help, guidance, or other thoughts would be appreciated. I think I understand the general concepts, but the devil is in the details. It will be frustrating enough to pull the 2/0 and 1/0 wire. I do not want to also set my boat on fire because of a unintentional oversight in the design.

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What about the battery interconnect and wire before and after a battery monitor shunt? I won't that need To be the same size (2/0)? I am working on a similar project on my C34.