I have been having refrigerator, battery, battery charger and CO alarm issues for the last couple of weeks. The question now is do I need more troubleshooting procedures, or is it time to replace the battery charger? If so, what battery charger should I install? I am certainly no expert on these things, but I've read a lot on this website and others recently and know much more than I did a short time ago.
Here's some background and recent sequence of events:
The Adler Barber Cold Machine stopped working, and it now appears I have a freon leak and have battery problems since the fridge shuts down if batteries drop below 10.2A. Advice I received from a refrigerator repair tech is to fix the battery issue before attempting to resolve 12v refrigerator issues.
Two years ago Yat had 2 4D batteries with 270 total amp hours. Last year I replaced one 4d with 2 Trojan T105 6V batteries. Due to the fridge shutting down and a dead cell, I recently replaced the other 4D battery with two additional Trojan T105 batteries. Wow, I now have 450 amp hours. The downside is the Truecharge2 20A battery charger is now acting up. Even when the batteries are charged up to 14.5A the charger continues to run at 40% capacity rather than cycling to less than 5% capacity as expected. Also, while sleeping aboard this weekend it appears this overcharging situation created a enough hydrogen gas concentration to set off the CO alarm. Wow, a refrigerator problem can really snowball.
I called Xantrex tech support who suggested a hard reset of the charger to see if it would return to float mode and the ready light would come back on when batteries are fully charged. Well, that didn't work and the charger continues to operate at 40% or more of capacity. Tech support also recommended if and when replacing the unit to upgrade to at least a 40A charger because of the 450AH battery bank. They suggest a charger with 10-20% of AH capacity.
I would appreciate suggestions for troubleshooting the battery charger. And if I must buy a battery charger because the current unit is at its end of life, what make and model charger would be best for a C34 with a house bank of 4 Trojan T105 6v batteries?
Looking forward to solving this so I can move on to troubleshooting the refrigerator problem.
https://marinehowto.com/installing-a-marine-battery-charger/
Craig
Hi Randy,
A 20a is WAY undersized. Yes, 10% is a minimum, higher is better to prolong the life of your investment.
You cant do better than a ProMariner ProNautic series charger.
Randy, I would recommend a 1250P (50a) but a 1260P (60a) would be better and be far less stressed and last longer in the long haul.
cheers,
-ken
Randy : You need to look at Stu's energy schedule. i.e.
If you don' stay plugged in to dock power and your batteries are topped off when you return to the dock; how many hours is the fridge on (Amp draw) before you run the engine (with a hi output alternator??) etc etc etc.
I lived with a 20amp charge for years because I never let the battery bank get below 75% discharge before I ran the engine. A few solar panels in-between at anchor.
Do your homework and study to determine what you need. I finally went to a 40 amp charge, but NOT for the reason of the battery bank size!!
A few thoughts
I think a "60 amp" is overkill.
Following
Thanks for the replies. I am not sure the underlying problem is the existing 20A charger, although I now realize it's undersized. Before I pull the trigger on Pro Nautic versus Truecharge2, and decide on 40A or 50A, I need to prove to myself the existing 20A charger is at the end of its life.
Any thoughts on how to prove the existing charger is malfunctioning and needs replacement?
Any thoughts on Pro Nautic versus Truecharge2?
Ron: How do I navigate to Stu's energy schedule?
Randy,
Here:
The All-Important Energy Budget:
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,3976.0.html
When my Truecharge died, I went with the Pronautic. What a difference!!! Don't kill your batteries trying to save an old charger, get it repaired or replace it.
I second Ken's suggestion, although when the Guest Charger in our C250 died, taking our two batteries with it, I switched it with another brand (and 2 new batteries)
Paul
I've got it, don't try save a failing charger and ruin good batteries, and the Pro Nautic is a good alternative to the Truecharge2. I am mainly a marine hopper and spend an occasional night or two at a time on the hook. The decision remains as to 40A or 50A Charger for the 450Ah bank. I'm thinking of going with the 50A charger since the price difference is only ~$55.
I'v been happy with the ProNautics 1240p. Whether you choose a 40 or 50 amp charger, be careful to install it where the charger will get plenty of ventilation.
PS-
"Reading between my lines" what I'm trying to say is in one instance you're buying 20% of insurance at a 17% premium. Wile in the other you're buying 33% of insurance for a 55% premium.
But, let me influence your deci$ion <wink!>
****************
Randy
How many amp-hrs would you consume in a day and need to replace? You need to subtract from the charger capacity, the load(s) that will be running while recharging.
What capacity to buy is like insurance. Speaking to Noah's comment and also Jon's observation, in very round number theory the 50a would work 20% less than a 40a. A 60a would work 33% less than a 40a. So since longevity depends on both on-time and good cooling, buying larger buys you a factor of safety and longevity. It's not that you "need" a 50 or 60, but it does buy you a longer lasting product.
Do you "need" it? Well, like insurance, you only "need" it when you "need" it.
-k
Randy,
Ken's right, but let me keep it simple.
450 ah house bank, most of us with fridges run 100 ah daily load. That gives you two nights on the hook without recharging.
Get the larger charger, it will work "less hard."
My house bank is (3) 130 ah wet cells. I have a Freedom 15 Inverter/Charger: 1500 watt inverter, 75 A charger. When I first plug in the charger goes to max 75A for a short time, then drops down as the voltage comes up. When I first run the engine after a night or two off the grid, I use Small Engine Mode to keep my 100A alternator from squealing the belt. After a half an hour or so I can run it up to full output 'cuz the battery acceptance is down to 50A.
This is all in the Elec Systems 101 Topic.
Get the larger charger, it will work "less hard" and when you plug in for a short time, if that happens to you, then you will get more into your house bank. :D Even if you have solar...
Ok guys, I've got it and will upgrade to a more powerful Pro Nautic charger, probably the 1250. Then I'll need to make sure to get the wiring right for the new charger and 4 T105 6V batteries. I'll post a diagram of existing connections after going to the Yat to draw one.
Quote from: Rortega46 on August 13, 2018, 11:05:35 AM
I have been having refrigerator, battery, battery charger and CO alarm issues for the last couple of weeks. The question now is do I need more troubleshooting procedures, or is it time to replace the battery charger?
The answer to your original question is you need more troubleshooting. You mention your frig has a Freon leak. If that's the case, your frig would never get cold enough to shut off and would quickly drain your batteries. You need to fix that or don't use the frig. You also mention you installed 2 new T105s in place of 1 4D 2 years ago. New batteries should not be mixed with old batteries if they are run in parallel. Your old 4D could have been a drain on the new T105s. Then you added 2 more T105s which also may have been stressed by the older T105s. I wouldn't be buying a new charger until I understood how the boat is wired, fixed the frig issue and capacity tested the batteries. I have the original 15amp charger that came with the boat in 1989 and it works fine for my type of use.
I just installed one of these to charge 3 100 AH gel batteries. It charges every day from 4 pm all night then goes back to stand-by until around 4 pm the next day. I hope I didn't make a mistake buying this brand after reading some of the posts.
It depends on your battery use/sailing profile.
Talk about that.
Unless you drain the house every day, your charger shouldn't be bulk charging every day. And the time to recharge depends on what you have running while it's trying to charge. eg, 5 amps running, you then have a 15a charger.
ken
Mark_53, your are correct... I need more troubleshooting. Especially for the inoperable refrigerator. Problem is I got sidetracked by a battery with a bad cell, concerns about a battery charger, and finally CO alarms while trying to sleep last weekend. For now the refrigerator is off until it's problems are diagnosed and resolved. The existing 20A battery charger has been in float mode on and off this week after short recovery times following a couple of outings. The CO alarms while sleeping last week are still a concern, but have not recurred for a week.
I plan to get a tech to look at the fridge for a diagnosis this coming week. I recognize the 20A battery charger is undersized for the existing batteries and will probably replace it after the refrigerator issue is resolved. If CO alarms come back, I'll need to figure out why and how to eliminate them.
The Yat is wired like the owner's manual shows, except I now have two 6V batteries replacing each of the original 4Ds and there are 30A breakers between the battery charger and each battery bank. I attach the diagraham in case someone wants to comment or suggest an alternative.
Oh, the joys of boat ownership and the never ending quest to learn new things.
Quote from: Rortega46 on August 19, 2018, 12:08:24 PM
Mark_53, your are correct... I need more troubleshooting. Especially for the inoperable refrigerator. Problem is I got sidetracked by a battery with a bad cell, concerns about a battery charger, and finally CO alarms while trying to sleep last weekend. For now the refrigerator is off until it's problems are diagnosed and resolved. The existing 20A battery charger has been in float mode on and off this week after short recovery times following a couple of outings. The CO alarms while sleeping last week are still a concern, but have not recurred for a week.
I plan to get a tech to look at the fridge for a diagnosis this coming week. I recognize the 20A battery charger is undersized for the existing batteries and will probably replace it after the refrigerator issue is resolved. If CO alarms come back, I'll need to figure out why and how to eliminate them.
The Yat is wired like the owner's manual shows, except I now have two 6V batteries replacing each of the original 4Ds and there are 30A breakers between the battery charger and each battery bank. I attach the diagraham in case someone wants to comment or suggest an alternative.
Oh, the joys of boat ownership and the never ending quest to learn new things.
So it sounds like your charger is working as expected. As far as wiring goes, I added a dedicated start battery and combined in parallel the batteries in the salon battery box into one house bank. Added an ACR in the battery box to isolate the start and house banks. I would recommend the same.
Here's what I did.
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,8790.msg63977.html#msg63977