Hello guys. I thought I would start a new topic with regard to my engine. I am grateful for all the input thus far and I am wading through every engine topic I can find in both the tech notes and wiki.
I also bought a super book that helps address my initial question for an idiots guide to engine inspection. Nigel Calder has a DIY Engine Survey starting at Page 134 of Marine Diesel Engines.
Notwithstanding all the reading I am doing, a picture is worth a lot and I figured you may give me some additional pointers based on some photos. I have about a dozen.
I can clearly see some issues and I am now even more skeptical of my "surveyor" and the PO. I would be concerned to take my otherwise lovely boat beyond my 100 mile towing limit.
Here goes with the first set of photos.
Yeah, it's got an Oberdorfer!
And a hose that goes under the floor and flops around in the engine compartment!
Next set of photos:
The wiring scares me and I obviously have original hoses that need replacement.
More photos:
Yet more:
One forward engine mount bracket is corroded and one looks fine.
And more:
Shocking to see tape around a hose.
Last set (for now :D)
I am not a mechanic but at first glance:
The good: you have a new $65 air cleaner assembly.
The bad: need to replace the engine wiring harness ASAP
The "mystery" Trident flex hose not attached at one end...don't know. Trace where the other end goes. It may just be a random hose scrap dumped there?
Check all your other hoses for cracking and flexibility. Some may need replacing. Other readers will certainly have more observations based on your photos
BONUS TIP:
Basic engine system things to know if you plan on cruising:
1. Understand the sounds/smells your engine and boat make so you can anticipate/suspect/indentify problems.
2. Learn how to: change oil, change fuel filters, bleed engine fuel system, change tranny fluid, change coolant and bleed cooling system, change water pump impeller, change HX zinc, adjust stuffing box.
sophie : As I mentioned you before you need to get a diesel mechanic or another boat owner with an M25XP engine and to go over what you are the owner of.
The alternator bracket is an issue for the M25 engine NOT the M25XP engine. You need to read more thoroughly !!
A few thoughts
sophie
photos confirm you have an earlier XP (important if needing certain major engine parts.)
tagging onto Noah's comment on the hoses - squeeze as tight as you can, if soft, replace immediately. with all the paint, it may be tough to see cracking, but do best you can.
Also check your vented loop valve.
other;
here's some items a pre-purchase survey (visual only) should have reported; I'm trying to keep it brief, not a "how-to" service manual.
NOTE: some are critical. Others need attention before an extended cruise. Some are PM/peace of mind because you don't "know" the engine. Or, just run her until something "breaks."
It depends a lot on your goal - pinch pennies, go for bronze, silver, or gold plan.
The floppy hose is one of two for the water heater. 2nd one missing?
new thermostat bypass hose indicates PO disconnected the WH - is it removed or inoperable/leaks, does it work off of 120vac?
The painted coolant pump hose indicates your alt bracket is OE, not added later.
appears there's no coolant overflow reservoir - add one.
cheap insurance to change the coolant pressure cap.
Ob pump might need service. check the cover for wear from the impeller - it can be refaced to make it good as new. remove and throw away the cir-clip on the pump shaft, it's useless.
The corroded engine mount indicates a saltwater leak - maybe the Ob pump or a hose?
her old style thermostat cap doesn't have a hi-temp alarm switch - fairly easy to add on.
check and test the thermostat
run a breather hose into the air intake.
the fuel filter is ORIGINAL (painted) I presume there's a primary filter/water separator?
Hx has been removed at least 1X; ck it to ensure ends/tubes are clear, check the zinc anode -- eventually clean and pressure test it.
she's a mongrel earlier XP- not bad, just is.
has the old (M-25) bell housing, new (3") Hx, and an Hx bracket from the M-35, you won't find it in the XP parts list. later XPs has a redesigned bell housing and Hx mount. Universal morphed from the M-25 to the final XP configuration -- it wasn't a clean break (probably used up parts that were on hand.)
exhaust riser looks like a OEM black iron pipe, not stainless. check it for integrity, especially at water injection; replace the corrugated hose w/ a silicone hump hose.
muffler - Aqualifts can leak at seams and have damage @ the inlet. so it depends on what you find w/ the riser. best to inspect and proactively reinforce the seams if you want to extend life.
alternator - paint on the pump hose confirms your alt bracket is original, not added.
check the alt alignment and verify it has the correct size bolts, add a frame ground cable; i prev. mentioned the alt belt,
appears the starter solenoid was replaced at least 1X. if you need to again there's a better version.
she has 1/0 gauge battery cables. good!
neg battery cable is on the bell housing, move to a starter bolt.
harness negative wire should be on a better ground (i.e., add neg bus in eng compartment)
harness terminals (very few I could see) are in "good" (ie, not perfect) condition. Wires (what is visible) seems in good condition, no splits, chafing, exposed copper.
she has the better universal plug, terrible catalina plug (there will be two more behind the panel.) harness is non-abyc compliant.
options depend on your long term goal (replace or make do?):
a- get into compliance, eliminate fire hazard; into better condition <$20
b- into even better condition <$30
c- best condition w/o replacing it <$40
d- Ammeter eventually needs to be replaced w/ voltmeter <$30 (when, depends on long term goal for panel)
If long term you'll do major panel/harness refurb, then could do to the minimum until then.
Thank you so very much for the awesome advice Ken. That is exactly what I was looking for when I originally posted.
I wish I could repay you for your time.
Thanks again. I was becoming a little dispirited, although nowhere near ready to follow one piece of advice I received yesterday!
I hope you have a lovely weekend.
Albie,
U r Welcome.
Understand those are JTSO, others' opinions and your mileage may vary. If you need more on an individual item you don't see in the TW/TN library, ask. We can take it offline or if it pertains to other members' situation, stay here.
If you are not schooled on exactly what and how the harness does what it does, Stu and i talked about a basic harness primer. I got it half done, but needs more work.
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,8385.msg59165.html#msg59165
Also needs the "fix it" section (it may have some newer info than what's in the reference library(ies).
k
Is that the original spin on filter for the injection pump??
I have no idea if it is the original spin on filter. I am trying to learn.
The fact that it is painted bronze kinda is suspicious. I would start with a clean (known) slate and change it.
It seems that I was lied to by the PO, somebody I know! He said that all the critical upgrades were done including the harness and that the engine had been serviced and inspected by the local (supposedly reputable) diesel experts at the harbor. The "surveyor" actually looked at the engine, listened to it and pronounced it to be fine. (All part of his near $500 inspection).
Where do I find an honest and competent diesel tech? I work 60 hours a week so I will not have time to work on the boat until I am unemployed or retired.
After what I have seen and read I am not comfortable taking the boat out until I am sure the engine and electrics are squared away.
It seems that there are a lot of cowboys about.
#anotherdisillusionednewboatowner
Don't be discouraged. While I am not a "mechanic", IMO nothing looks so worrisome on the engine that would preclude you from taking the boat out while you get to know it and proceed to do maintenance/mods to get all issues squared away. In the meantime, I would invest in some towing insurance for peace of mind. TowBoat US offers unlimited towing for $149 per year and covers your area.
Thank you Noah.
ABI : Looking at that harness connector again I would challenge your statement "all the critical upgrades were done including the harness".
It looks to me like a new connector on the engine side, but the old gummy connector on the wire bundle side going back to the engine instrument panel - best check that out to be sure!!!
A thought :?
@Ron: I wrote: "It seems that I was lied to by the PO, somebody I know! He said that all the critical upgrades were done including the harness and that the engine had been serviced and inspected by the local (supposedly reputable) diesel experts at the harbor".
Quote from: Ron Hill on August 08, 2017, 02:14:38 PM
It looks to me like a new connector on the engine side, but the old gummy connector on the wire bundle side
Ron, JFFR in case you see one again. They are both OE plugs.
The black is a Universal rubber plug (alternate to the Universal white plug) as I showed here:
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,9562.msg72117.html#msg72117
Some Universal plug halves were a harder white, some were black rubber.
CTY/Seaward/Bristol plug halves were always gummy bear amber.
The nearest that I've found is to qnaw on a cherry and an orange at the same time, and come up with an amber.
(https://target.scene7.com/is/image/Target/50334125?wid=120&hei=120&fmt=pjpeg) PLUS (https://target.scene7.com/is/image/Target/50334126?wid=120&hei=120&fmt=pjpeg) EQUALS (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/S4zjmFVHR89ivg0dV215_oi_1jd2rijXyGh4o8MmJ6AhfUM_kLmqEZomlJfxRfREPL-ZaA=s370)
Albi,
Yeah you got what I call a "buddy job." :shock: :shock:
It happens, but the good news is that, from the photos, there doesn't seem to be anything that's a show stopper. I've seen a LOT worse.
(for now) Check your hoses -- an hour job. Replace when you pull her.
(for now) Check Hx for gunk. A pinhole leak and you can still limp home.
Your riser can start leaking and you can still limp home.
Change oil and a new filter/ change tranny fluid. Just in case those are also buddy jobs.
Change fuel filter? Yah, but it hasn't screwed up your injectors yet, so the primary has defo been doing its job.
(for now) do one of the quick harness fixes. Tackle the big job when you pull her.
a- eliminate fire hazard <$20
b- get into better condition <$30
c- into best condition w/o replacing it <$40
You're not talking a lot of time to check her out and get the most important into shape (presuming you don't uncover some sleeping giant.).
Then go sailing.
Best way to find reputable help is by recommendation. Befriend Catalina owners at the marina. Ask. Explain. Listen.
ken
That's great Ken. Thank you so very much.
Hx?
Love the gummy bear analogy. :D
Heat exchanger
Duh! I never claimed to be bright :D
You are to bright! You bought a C34, didn't ya? :clap
When you replace the hoses, look carefully at that hose from below the freshwater coolant pump to the elbow under the alternator. It goes from 1" to 7/8". You can pay Universal big bucks for it, or you can go to an auto parts store and buy a Toyota hose for $11. Do a search on Toyota here to find the part #.
Quote from: Stu Jackson on August 09, 2017, 01:03:44 PM
It goes from 1" to 7/8". You can pay Universal big bucks for it, or you can go to an auto parts store and buy a Toyota hose for $11. Do a search on Toyota here to find the part #.
There's a second way to skin that cat if the Toyota hose ever goes "no longer available." Or you just hate spending $11 for a short, non-marine hose. That is to replace the Westerbeke pipe elbow with your own elbow.
3/4" copper tubing is 7/8" OD, and the female end of a copper tubing sweat fitting is 1" OD.
So for instance:
A 90-degree 3/4" street elbow is 1" OD on the female "hub" end, and 7/8" OD on the male "socket" end, or
A regular 3/4" elbow is 1" on the hub end, and 7/8" on the other end when you sweat in a stub of tubing. You can extend the length of the 1" end by sweating a coupling (which is 1" OD) to the elbow.
So, if you construct (using whatever combination of fittings you choose) your own (reducing) pipe elbow, you can replace the 1" x 7/8" specialty hose with a short length of "normal" hose.
Example below on a pre-alternator-bracket-upgrade engine.
ken
Good info Ken, thanks.
Paul
Look for a local marine repair with Catalina experience and references. I have 2 really good ones in San Diego. They have worked on my C30 and C34.