Catalina 34

General Activities => Main Message Board => Topic started by: anaisdog on July 20, 2017, 07:55:52 AM

Title: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: anaisdog on July 20, 2017, 07:55:52 AM
i have hull 99, 1986 and last night was the first time i took her out, from the dock, this year. in forward, she was really slow and the engine was pegged at 3200 rpm, for going really slowly.  i put her in reverse, in case there were weeds, didn't see anything coming off, went back into forward and for probably 3-5 minutes, the engine remained pegged then it slowly backed off the rpm, with the same amount of throttle.  turned off the boat, sailed for a few hours, turned her back on, and it was sluggish again with high rpm, going forward.  if the weather holds, I'm going to dive the prop tonight but what else could this be?

thanks

becki kain
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: Noah on July 20, 2017, 09:08:12 AM
Caveat: I am NOT a mechanic but...Did you notice whether the shaft was spinning faster when you accelerated? If your prop is clean...tie boat to the dock and run engine in gear and look at the shaft to see if it is spinning faster as you give it more throttle under load, or perhaps the transmission is slipping...
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: anaisdog on July 20, 2017, 09:40:56 AM
um, forgive me for being confused but how would i?  she's in the water?  like dive behind while someone else is driving?

thanks!
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: Noah on July 20, 2017, 10:04:31 AM
NO!
1. Tie the boat to the dock with to a good secure cleat with strong spring lines fore and aft.
2. Go below and remove aft bunk cushions and open compartment bunk board so you can see transmission and coupling and stuffing box
3. Run engine in gear(forward and reverse) at different RPMs and see if shaft turns at different speeds or slips.
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: anaisdog on July 20, 2017, 10:07:51 AM
DUH!  completely forgot we can see the shaft from the aft cabin. thanks!
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: Craig Illman on July 20, 2017, 11:01:37 AM
and, if you can't count the revolutions, optical tachs are pretty inexpensive.  :razz:
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: mark_53 on July 20, 2017, 11:43:24 AM
Make sure your not wearing a necklace when counting revolutions.  Also, keep long hair away! :shock:
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: anaisdog on July 20, 2017, 12:03:19 PM
owowowowow!
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: KWKloeber on July 20, 2017, 01:19:21 PM
becki

You're getting the RPMs, so by elimination it has to be something past the flywheel.

Check in this order:

Dirty hull/prop
Loose prop
Slipping tranny/plate.

kk
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: anaisdog on July 20, 2017, 01:51:00 PM
remember she's in the water.  how do i check the last?
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: KWKloeber on July 20, 2017, 02:48:13 PM
becki

Well, as others said, check it running under load (shaft vs engine RPM -- though you should use a hand tach for both since you can't rely on the panel tach being accurate.)  Or with the transmission locked, try turning the prop in the water (if you've verified it's not slipping) or turning the shaft itself.  Probably safer than getting hair or clothing caught up!   :shock: :shock:

Applying Occam's Razor to this situation, go for the obvious/easy first (hull and prop.)

ken
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: Bobg on July 20, 2017, 08:58:24 PM
hope you can come up with the answer, my boat has been slowing down for the last 2 years, started after I re pitched the prop to 10", after re-pitching the prop, I got 6 knots at 2500 rpm, witch was about a half knot improvement, now I get around 5 knots, calm seas, bottom clean, boat empty, comparing it to a phone or gps and my speedometer is right on,
can't turn the prop by hand while in gear with engine off, hand held lazor on shaft gives me about 50 to 70 revs less than half of engine speed with a 2-1 reduction, i.e. at 2200 rpm on engine, the shaft turns about 1050.  can't figure it out, I can get 3200 rpm out of engine, one dock mate says I may have taken on water thru the gel coat as I don't have bottom paint on any more, that sort of seems far fectched tho to me.  So If you come up with anything, let me know
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: Noah on July 20, 2017, 09:49:50 PM
No bottom paint & no barrier coat?
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: Jim Hardesty on July 21, 2017, 05:10:30 AM
Quoteif the weather holds, I'm going to dive the prop tonight but what else could this be?

Becki,
Did you dive?  What did you find?   You didn't say what you have for a prop.  If you have a folding or feathering prop you may have one of those pesky zebra muscles not allowing the prop to fully function.
Hope you find the problem.
Jim
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: anaisdog on July 21, 2017, 05:36:07 AM
is there a engine schematic for the m25 diesel, which came on the c34 1986?  we're going to try to change the transmission oil.  thanks
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: anaisdog on July 21, 2017, 05:44:39 AM
There is a fresh coat of vc17 on the bottom of the boat, as i do every year.  also, i can't imagine it would be a dirty bottom when it only happens when the engine is just turned on.  a friend, who is a transmission engineer here at ford and i are going to work on both of our engines tomorrow, changing the trans oil on both.

and no, i didn"t dive yet but i will.  i was racing last night (and came in last but at least we finished!)  i have a fixed 3 blade which i had straightened when i first got the boat, 5 years ago and a new shaft, since it was bent.  i'll let folks know what we find but i need a engine schematic to find the transmission oil.  ideas?  thanks
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: Craig Illman on July 21, 2017, 06:06:38 AM
There's an 11/16" hex head on top of the transmission case, the oil is under there. (along with the rest of the dipstick).

Craig
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: anaisdog on July 21, 2017, 06:27:21 AM
http://realitycheck.me/checking-the-Hurth-HBW-50-transmission-fluid.htm


thanks.  just found this
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: Stu Jackson on July 21, 2017, 07:26:32 AM
just found this, right on our on tech wiki

http://c34.org/wikiwp/?rdp_we_resource=http%3A%2F%2Fc34.org%2Fwiki%2Findex.php%3Ftitle%3DHow_to_Check_the_Transmission_Oil
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: anaisdog on July 21, 2017, 07:37:44 AM
thanks!
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: KWKloeber on July 21, 2017, 08:50:51 AM
Quote from: anaisdog on July 21, 2017, 05:36:07 AM
is there a engine schematic for the m25 diesel, which came on the c34 1986?  we're going to try to change the transmission oil.  thanks

A schematic?  Are you saying in 5 years the tranny fluid hasn't been changed or the level checked?

-k
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: anaisdog on July 21, 2017, 08:53:43 AM
i don't know.  i've had a mechanic looking at my engine and doing the winterizing, all this time.  i assume he checked it, but i don't know and he's doing the ph to mac race so i can't ask
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: Stu Jackson on July 21, 2017, 03:01:49 PM
becki,

Tips & Tricks for fluid removal

1.  Look in the "101  Topics" --- there is a whole section on it:  Transmission Fluid 101   http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6417.0.html
(http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6417.0.html)
2.  Many of us use a syringe, a big plastic one, instead of a turkey baster.  The trick is to get a looong plastic tube that fits snugly on whatever you use to suck it out.

3.  Measure what you take out by putting it into a clear plastic cup, and replace just that amount fr starters.  THEN check the level, using a paper towel at the end of the dipstick without screwing it in.

4.  I have been able to reach my dipstick directly from above, and I use extenders on a socket.  I have put a smidgen of butyl tape inside the socket like glue to raise the stick.
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: Noah on July 21, 2017, 03:36:27 PM
And look closely as the "I'm filled" line/score on the dipstick is only about 1/4 inch from the tip of the stick.
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: KWKloeber on July 21, 2017, 09:31:19 PM
Quote from: Noah on July 21, 2017, 03:36:27 PM
And look closely as the "I'm filled" line/score on the dipstick is only about 1/4 inch from the tip of the stick.

becki, also make sure the vent is clear (the dipstick is hollow and it vents to a (1/16"?) hole in one side of its hex head.)

k
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: KWKloeber on July 21, 2017, 11:59:36 PM
Quote from: Stu Jackson on July 21, 2017, 03:01:49 PM
becki,

2.  Many of us use a syringe, a big plastic one, instead of a turkey baster.  The trick is to get a looong plastic tube that fits snugly on whatever you use to suck it out.

3.  Measure what you take out by putting it into a clear plastic cup, and replace just that amount for starters.  THEN check the level, using a paper towel at the end of the dipstick without screwing it in.


I have found a battery filler works well (don't use that anymore - see other post). 

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSSRdJSWW81O7S75cR5q177Sf6cBMZcpCLmQX-4DWWhLSkRQGJIsg)

I can reach the bottom with it's hard plastic tube, but if I couldn't get down to the dipstick hole, the tube also fits vinyl tubing very well.  The bulb volume is large and it sucks well.

And also then the turkey doesn't end up with red drippings for the gravy.

The only thing is, that tranny fluid will make the two parts slippery and the rubber bulb will slip off the plastic stem.  So before it gets gunked up, it needs a tight plastic zip tie around the base of the bulb.

After I didn't use it anymore to evacuate the fluid, I still used it to fill the tranny.  Well not exactly fill.  becki, like you I used to be on the hard on the off season.  I'd change fluid in the fall and fill the tranny FULL.  Not "full" on the dipstick but the tranny case FULL.  I have the plastic stem on the battery filler marked with a small zip tie at the spot that equals the length of the dipstick to the "full" mark.  So, take the full tranny, insert the bulb stem down until the zip tie is at the top of the case.  And suck.  The fluid level is "automatically" set at the correct "full" level.

To fill the tranny I use a "nalgene" plastic bottle with a pointy top, marked at O.3 liter (the HB50 fluid volume.) The tip had a vinyl tube zip tied to it.  Work the tube into the tranny, tip the bottle up and let 'er rip.  no funnels, no muss, no fuss, no runs, no drips, no errors.

k
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: Jim Hardesty on July 22, 2017, 05:09:50 AM
I do same as Ken with a few exceptions.  Like Ken's idea with the marked fill bottle.  I used Gorilla Glue between the bulb and the siphon.  I put the syringe in a zip-loc bag and only use it for t-fluid.  Also I write on blue painters tape that the transmission is overfull and put that above the nav table along with a number of other reminders that I must do before launch.  Alternator belt loose, impeller out, seacock closed, etc. 
Hope the transmission service fixes the problem.
Jim
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: Ron Hill on July 22, 2017, 01:27:42 PM
Guys : I filled my transmission to the top for the winter and sucked all of the fluid out in the spring.  One fall before I filled it to the top, I sucked all the fluid out into a bottle and marked it.   Then in the spring when I suck all the fluid out I refill it from the bottle level so I'm right on when I recheck it for a new season. 

Wrote that up in the Mainsheet tech notes - long ago

A few thoughts
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: KWKloeber on July 22, 2017, 02:28:25 PM
Quote from: Ron Hill on July 22, 2017, 01:27:42 PM
Guys : I filled my transmission to the top for the winter and sucked all of the fluid out in the spring.  One fall before I filled it to the top, I sucked all the fluid out into a bottle and marked it.   Then in the spring when I suck all the fluid out I refill it from the bottle level so I'm right on when I recheck it for a new season. 

Wrote that up in the Mainsheet tech notes - long ago

A few thoughts

And I bet it was 0.3 liter every time.  What's the magic of looking up the fluid capacity in the manual?  Sheesh.
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: anaisdog on July 23, 2017, 07:39:22 AM
Bobg, should you be able to turn the prop by hand while in gear with engine off?  i'll test that.  and was leaving her in gear, when engine off, at sail.  bad becki
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: anaisdog on July 23, 2017, 07:42:05 AM
thanks.  the fluid was clear and looked over filled.  would that cause the issue?
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: anaisdog on July 23, 2017, 07:50:27 AM
why is leaving it in gear, while sailing, bad?  just curious.  just because the prop is spinning and wearing the shaft?
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: Noah on July 23, 2017, 08:01:04 AM
The manual says leave it in neutral or reverse, just NOT forward.
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: anaisdog on July 23, 2017, 08:08:29 AM
okay, i can remember to do that but why, do you think, that is?
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: Noah on July 23, 2017, 08:21:20 AM
http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=The_Right_Transmission_Gear_for_Sailing
Sometimes it is best not to reason why but to do or die... 8)
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: KWKloeber on July 23, 2017, 08:24:37 AM
Pop quiz. You moor on the Niagara River. 
How do you leave the tranny?

What if you're in a slip?

(http://www.c34.org/faq-pages/images/Hurth-Xmission.jpg)
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: Noah on July 23, 2017, 08:56:05 AM
How about sailing backwards? :abd:
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: KWKloeber on July 23, 2017, 09:01:02 AM
Quote from: anaisdog on July 23, 2017, 08:08:29 AM

okay, i can remember to do that but why, do you think, that is?



Good question becki.  More owners should want to know EVERYTHING about their boats, sail or power or whatever, and why everything happens (and  doesn't happen when it's supposed to.)   Knowing so sometimes helps set off the alarm bell, whether something is critical, or REALLY  critical.

See this thread
https://www.catalina36.org/comment/54808#comment-54808

Do you have a fixed or folding prop?

There's also seen A lot of "dock facts" (i.e., opinions)  whether a spinning prop or not caused more drag under sail. I don't know that I've ever seen a fact based comparison

kk
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: anaisdog on July 23, 2017, 12:14:47 PM
Ken, 3 blade fixed, as i've said. 

thanks about the info
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: Ron Hill on July 23, 2017, 02:32:38 PM
Guys : You'll find that most racers will leave their transmissions in neutral!!

A thought
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: Noah on July 23, 2017, 02:46:28 PM
And then there are the crazy guys I raced with: after they powered out to the starting area they would jump over the side and put rubber bands around their 2-blade folding props to prevent them from unfolding while sailing!
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: KWKloeber on July 23, 2017, 06:33:24 PM
Quote from: Jim Hardesty on July 22, 2017, 05:09:50 AM

I do same as Ken with a few exceptions.

Jim

Jim,

This is the type Pony Pump I use to change engine oil and tranny fluid.  It works great. It's about the cheapest fluid change pump for the quality -- I had a "marine" oil change pump from WM, and it lasted 2 seasons.  This is going strong after 20 seasons.

(http://c34.org/wiki/images/9/96/Teelpump.jpg)

(http://c34.org/wiki/images/4/41/Snapswitch.jpg)

I have it set up with a 12v lighter plug (and also carry  a long extension cable) and have a rocker "snap switch" mounted to the base (added after the 1st time the discharge hose fell out of the waste oil container.) 

The ports are threaded for both garden hose and npt (3/8?.)  To get full flow, on the ports I use garden hose barb fittings with shorty stubs of 1/4" silicone tubing on them for connectors, to receive clear 1/4" vinyl tubing.  Into the sucker hose I slip a 1/4" OD stiff poly tubing "wand" to reach the bottom of the tranny and oil pan.  I can reach to the low spots and that I need to replace more oil tha owners who use the oil change hose, speaks to the fact I get more crap oil oil.

I carry it set up in a shoe box sized plastic box w/ precut pieces of vinyl and poly tubing in there ready to go.  With an oil diaper cut to fit the bottom.

To get this off the boat someone would have to pry it from my dead hand. It doubles as my emergency bilge pump, emergency fuel lift pump and emergency fuel transfer pump.  And it's my wash down pump and dewatering pump and pink stuff pump.  It's the MOST multi-purpose piece of equipment on the boat.
Besides the ice box.

This is the type filler bottle - a Nalgene lab dropper-bottle.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/319pSspqzZL._SL500_AC_SS350_.jpg)

Or one can use a wash-down bottle and squeeze it standing upright. 

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/21RAP4r6%2B5L.jpg)

kk
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: J_Sail on July 23, 2017, 07:32:32 PM
Ken,

Sounds like a great item to own.
Your photo looks like a Little Giant 365. If that's the brand you have, any idea if yours is the chrome-plated brass version, or the 365S stainless steel one (and what the trade-offs might be other than a few dollars extra)?

https://www.amazon.com/Little-Giant-365-Submersible-Utility/dp/B001973AVO
https://www.amazon.com/Little-Giant-365S-Submersible-Utility/dp/B000VWZ1AQ
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: anaisdog on July 24, 2017, 08:37:59 AM
Ken, that's great!  thanks for the info
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: KWKloeber on July 24, 2017, 11:27:01 AM
Jeremy

You busted me.  The pic is a Little Giant Pony Pump, but mine is a Teel (Grainger brand) before they stopped house branding the Little Giant pumps.  The pic is also the 120v version (I couldn't find a pic of the 12v w/ the extra impellers.)  So, that's why I covered my butt that it's "the type" that I have (like the Teel below). 

(http://c34.org/wiki/images/9/96/Teelpump.jpg)

Mine is a chrome pump -- actually left over from a half-dozen Teel pumps that I bought for a work project -- pumping some nasty groundwater wells at a waste treatment/disposal facility.   So although not continuously, the body was subject to some nasty stuff (the color of Coke [not the white type] and effervesced like a nice cold can poured over ice.  (The feds subsequently offered the company owner and plant manager free room and board for 20 some odd years.)

I did buy stainless bodies to set up pumping acid from 55 gal drums at a dialysis facility, but for our use I wouldn't see an issue intermittently using the chrome pump since 90% of it is probably going to be engine fluids.   A fresh water flush after salt seawater use would be in line.

Harbor Freight also has a $40 marine utility pump, but I haven't tried it.  Some owners said they had good luck with a previous model, but I bought one for work and the impeller died after a couple days hard use.   Like most HF stuff, forget trying to get parts.  The "impeller" was a funky set up, not a rubber impeller, but a hard disk with impeller "fingers" that sweep the case.  I haven't even tried to find parts for it.  A very strange set up.

The current HF pump manual looks like it has a real rubber impeller and it also already comes with a snap switch on the cord.  Nice.  I may buy one to try it. it looks very close the the LG pump.


(https://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/9fc4a8332f9638515cd199dd0f9238da/6/3/63324_I.jpg)


ken
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: Bobg on July 25, 2017, 08:40:12 AM
I use a garden pump on a drill necked down to a small see through hard plastic pipe to fit into the tranny, sucks the fluid out like right now, cheap too, to check the tranny I use a 5/16" dowel with a mark on it to copy the tranny dipstick, can see fluid much easier than that metal dipstick, and to anaisdog, no I can't rotate prop on the hard while in gear
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: KWKloeber on July 25, 2017, 09:13:01 AM
Great idea on the dowel.  I've thought of epoxy painting the dip stick grooooove white (maybe the whole tip.) Wonder if that would help?

Do you have the dowel marked to bottom it out on the tranny case?

ken
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: Stu Jackson on July 25, 2017, 10:35:26 AM
The "trick" for reading the dipstick has always been to simply roll it on a paper towel.  No muss, no fuss, instant cleanup and no extra work.
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: KWKloeber on July 25, 2017, 12:14:33 PM
Quote from: Stu Jackson on July 25, 2017, 10:35:26 AM

The "trick" for reading the dipstick has always been to simply roll it on a paper towel.  No muss, no fuss, instant cleanup and no extra work.


Stu

I haven't tried that trick, but then I may have somewhat better access than y'all do -- and may be able to see it more easily. 

But you wipe the dipstick twice, correct?   As it's supposed to be read w/the threads disengaged, so the initial level/wipe is too high -- or since I've never done it that way, do you estimate "close enough" @ the first wipe?  I'd guess the threads are about 1 mm or so -- maybe close enough for non NASA work.

Anyhew on that, my brain isn't working and missing something obvious.  I'm not following you about extra work.  YBYCOM(ethod) but how is wiping a steel dowel (rightfully twice) different or less work than wiping a wooden one once?  If we could read the dipstick w/o wiping/reinserting it, I could say that it's saving one paper towel over the Bobg method, but that's not the case.

ken
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: Stu Jackson on July 25, 2017, 08:39:23 PM
Quote from: KWKloeber on July 25, 2017, 12:14:33 PM
Quote from: Stu Jackson on July 25, 2017, 10:35:26 AM

The "trick" for reading the dipstick has always been to simply roll it on a paper towel.  No muss, no fuss, instant cleanup and no extra work.


>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>

But you wipe the dipstick twice, correct?   As it's supposed to be read w/the threads disengaged, so the initial level/wipe is too high -- or since I've never done it that way, do you estimate "close enough" @ the first wipe?  I'd guess the threads are about 1 mm or so -- maybe close enough for non NASA work.

Anyhew on that, my brain isn't working and missing something obvious.  I'm not following you about extra work.  YBYCOM(ethod) but how is wiping a steel dowel (rightfully twice) different or less work than wiping a wooden one once?  If we could read the dipstick w/o wiping/reinserting it, I could say that it's saving one paper towel over the Bobg method, but that's not the case.


My experience has been that the dipstick has already been removed and wiped (1st pass) in order to remove and replace the fluid.  The stick is already clean.

Drop the stick in and ROLL it on the paper towel.  If you've replaced the right amount of fluid, as I described earlier, the level should be fine.

If not, add some more fluid.  Use the dipstick again, and not another piece of anything.

After all, that's what it is for, isn't it?

I would find it odd if someone was using a dowel on their car engine to check the oil level.
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: KWKloeber on July 25, 2017, 08:47:18 PM
Stu

I ahhh ha, see I told you my brain wasn't working.  :shock:
I was thinking about level checks between servicing.  8)

Ken
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: Bobg on July 26, 2017, 09:09:29 PM
by the time I get the dipstick out, I have rubbed any fluid off the metal dipstick trying to get the dang thing out up to where I can see it, I have used the paper towel method but never trusted it because the fluid seems to permeate on the paper towel more than i think I read on the stick, I use the wooden dowel because I can clearly see where the fluid level is no matter how I manhandle it, I cut a notch in it to simulate the metal stick, it stains the dowel a bit.
And no, I would never use a wooden dowel to check my engine oil, generally engine dipsticks are readable and you don't slide your fingers all over them trying to get them out. I still have the oem heat exchanger which is in the way.  Anyway it works for me and takes the guess work out when I am down below  checking the fluid.
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: Jim Hardesty on July 27, 2017, 04:40:54 AM
FWIW  On my previous boat the fuel fill was directly over the fuel tank.  I made a fuel gage (dip stick) from copper pipe.  Scored it lightly with a pipe cutter at gallon increments and made a holder to keep it clean when not used.  Worked great after the copper aged it was real easy to read and I knew exactly how much to fill up.  Wish I could make one to work on Shamrock.
I don't find the OEM dipstick unreadable.  I do need a flash light and just look for the oil in the fill groove.
Jim
Title: Re: pokey engine/transmission?
Post by: mark_53 on July 27, 2017, 07:21:40 AM
Extract the fluid into a glass jar and mark the amount in the jar. That will tell you how much to replace. I've used Stu's method of rolling the stick on a paper towel. The level of oil can vary when you pull the stick out. Use the lowest marking on the towel as your level. Use both methods in combination.