I have a major water heater leak.
With waterpressure turned on, water flows out the drain hose.
This hose is located on the pressure relieve value.
It flows at the normal rate that would normally come out of the faucet.
At the faucet it just sputters.
Do you think the pressure relief is bad, the whole water heater or something else?
At least the water in the bilge is nice and warm
Start by changing out pressure valve and see.
If the water heater went to bed ( a leak in either side, of the coil), it see no reason that it would cause the relief valve to pass water. It's strange that it's not simply dripping, but rather a large leak. As Noah said start with that. Just to ask the obvious question, the relief valve lever isn't open by any chance?
Hi Brad,
Are you using the pressure relief valve as a drain valve; say to drain your tank for winter storage? If so, the pressure relief valve is almost certainly the problem since presumably, you can't build any water pressure with either hot or cold water at the faucets. If you are heating the tank electrically, I would strongly recommend turning the power off until you are able to fill the hot water tank without it leaking into the bilge.
It sounds like your boat is different than mine which is not a surprise. I have a separate drain valve and pressure relief valve. Here's a picture of my hot water tank under the galley sink. Pressure relief is on the right and the drain valve is on the left. If I leave the drain valve open and operate the house water pump, water flows out the drain valve at the max rate the pump can produce and I'll get no pressure at any of the other faucets in the boat.
And mine:
1) I am jealous of both of Noah and Dave. Your waterheater placement is great! Mine is virtually on the hull, with a thin plywood platform. Therefor all my connections are well below the door. I will have to remove the waterheater to be able to pressure valve. I will probably build a platform once I Get the waterheater out.
Brad : If you still have the round hot water heater it is the original that was installed is all 1986 and most 1987 C34s
If so you might want to change to a square HWH on a new higher platform. This will raise the height of the connections.
A thought
This is mine.
Brad : Looks like a PO installed a square heater on the plywood pedestal made for that original round heater!!
Guess what!! Remove your HW heater and build up the pedestal - then reinstall your HW heater !!
A pain, or leave it as is and complain!!
A few thoughts
Ouch! :shock: it looks to be well tucked away and difficult to maintain for access. But just think how much better your boat performs with all that weight down so low! :D :roll:
Guys, I just returned from the boat as I was checking why the Shurflo fresh water pump was not cycling off as it normally would once pressure was up. Oh oh a sizable water leak was coming out from the bottom of the water heater at the attachment plate location right in the middle as you look at the tank. My tank is the Seaward S600 6 gal, same as Dave Spencer's photo above. The water does not seem to be dripping down from the pressure relief valve or the drain valve but rather from the bottom??
Any thoughts? Can you get a Seaward replacement? Not that I want that project!
Thanks
Tom
The Seaward S600 (or F600) looks to be readily available. S600 = rear heat exchanger fittings, F600 = front fittings.
Canadian source: http://ca.binnacle.com/p6299/Seaward-600-Water-Heater-6-Gallon-Galvanized/product_info.html (http://ca.binnacle.com/p6299/Seaward-600-Water-Heater-6-Gallon-Galvanized/product_info.html)
United States Source: http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1%7C51%7C2234308%7C2234311&id=2092235 (http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1%7C51%7C2234308%7C2234311&id=2092235) and http://us.binnacle.com/product_info.php?products_id=6299 (http://us.binnacle.com/product_info.php?products_id=6299)
QuoteAny thoughts?
If you decide to delay replacing the water heater I suggest you bypass and drain it. That will hopefully save the wood base it sits on and work in the long run.
Jim
Tom : I'll guess that you have the original water heater. Just change it out!!
Look at your present heater and get the replacement heater with the connections on the same side as the old one.
You might even change out the hoses from the engine while you are at it. OR get the new water heater in and then change out the hoses.
Don't know where you are located, but if it's the end of your sailing season - get the boat hauled and then do the work!!
A few thoughts
Thanks Ron and All, was afraid you would say that.....
I take it there is no issue that the leaking water tank will cause the fresh water pump to continue pumping indefinitely without shutting off??
Also does the water heater come out of the opening without cutting anything? As I said mine is located identical to Dave spencer's photo above. Dave thanks for the link to a Canadian source for a new heater.
Any tips from those who have installed a new heater are most welcomed:)
Tom
Tom : The fresh water system is a "pressure demand" system - a leak lowers the pressure so the pump kicks ON , etc. etc.
Look in WiKi for the "How To" in replacing the water heater. It will come out of the side door under the sink when you take off the door AND the frame!!
Also get a LONG screwdriver to take out the "Hold down" screws on the starboard side!!
A few thoughts
Thanks Ron. I'll dig around the Wiki and find the "how to".
Tom
Quote from: Hawk on September 14, 2017, 12:46:41 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Any tips from those who have installed a new heater are most welcomed:)
Yes, read the tech notes, I wrote up my replacement a year or three ago (put it in 2013, in the Feb. 2014 tech notes). Photos included! :D
Thanks a bunch Stu!
Just read it and very helpful. I have so little space to get at the srbd hold down screws. I'll need an extra long Philips and skinny hands. (:
I may PM you with some questions once I get going in a month or so.
Tom
Brad,
You've probably replaced your water heater at this point but there's another option you may want to consider. Several years ago I was in the same boat as you are(pun not intended). My original round water heater was rusted out at the bottom and leaking on Top Gun(#0273, 1986). The original unit was an RV not a marine water heater so I replaced it with the square stainless steel unit which solved the leaking problem but not what I consider to be the main problem with the original set up.
This is how my boat worked when I got it; hot water at the slip, warm water the next day on a cruise, run the motor after that to charge the batteries and get luke warm water and H2O sun showers. I finally bit the bullet an got a marine flash heater, one of the best upgrades on the boat. Now instead of six gallons of hot water it's all hot water if that's what I want.
Quote from: scgunner on September 29, 2017, 08:54:20 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I finally bit the bullet an got a marine flash heater, one of the best upgrades on the boat. Now instead of six gallons of hot water it's all hot water if that's what I want.
Can you please tell us the make and model # of your flash heater?
Indeed I can! It's a Precision Temp Shower Mate Marine Gas Water Heater, Model# M500, cost $1450. It ain't cheap but when you return from a night dive in February half frozen it doesn't seem that expensive. I installed mine about 15 years ago and I was using hot water yesterday.
I can't believe I'm the only guy on this board to get fed up with the original 6gal tank water heater setup and install a tankless water heater. By the way I still have the tank water heater in place as a back up, I've never used it.
Quote from: scgunner on September 30, 2017, 08:10:14 AM
I can't believe I'm the only guy on this board to get fed up with the original 6gal tank water heater setup and install a tankless water heater. By the way I still have the tank water heater in place as a back up, I've never used it.
The heaters last 12-16 years. Use depends in many cases as to how you use your boat. If you motor every day or marina hop, it is not an issue. If you don't, then your solution is a good one.
Tankless heaters by other manufacturers are less expensive than your solution, but had proven to be dangerous for use on a boat, so many were turned away from them.
Your boat, your choice. :D
If your happy with six gallons of hot water it's not an issue, my problem was I have women on the boat(wife, daughter, friends)they use copious amounts of hot water, they can burn through six gallons in minutes.
Before I installed mine I did some research because I had also heard they could be dangerous. I found there were basically two problems. First, trying to adapt a home unit(they are quite a bit cheaper)for marine use, that's a big no-no. Second, improper allowance for ventilation during installation(as with any gas heating device they must be properly vented) . Avoiding these pitfalls the units are pretty safe and reliable.
I extend my six gallons of 160+ degree hot water with a tempering valve to blend it with cold to make safer 110-130 degree water. In fact, for showering in the cockpit, we don't have to mess with the cold tap and just use the hot to rinse off. The total tankage on a sailboat makes conservation pretty important. I know it's a challenge getting my significant other to leave her home water usage habits ashore.
Craig
My hat's off to you Craig, I found it far easier to spend $1500 and several hours of modification and installation than to modify my wife's behavior. Hell, after 34 years I haven't even been able to get her to screw the top back on the toothpaste.
Stu/Ron,
Finally got the new water heater installed and works well using the shore power and heats well running the engine.
On the first long run I yesterday though I noticed the temp went way up. I then was able to blow out the raw water intake line out the sea cock which has worked in the past, thinking we sucked something up. But the temp was still higher than the normal 165 degrees, pushing over 190+.
Going to give it a go again today and will also check the impeller. Could there be any air issue? I followed Stu's article including adding coolant to the two engine side hoses. ( By the way Thanks Stu!!)
Hawk
Hawk
This sounds exactly like an issue a friend recently had after refilling his XP coolant system after changing the water pump. Despite purging and burping, he had an air lock in or maybe behind the new pump. In simple terms his coolant WP impeller was trying to pump air. He pinched off, removed the 3/8 WH hose at the pump, and "turkey basted" the WP. Problem fixed. There may be more in the 101s on burping - dunno.
-ken
Thanks Ken, I did a little more digging through the older "Burping" threads and Wiki 101 so will head down today and give it a try. My raw water intake is clear but that wasn't likely the problem yesterday:)
By the way the new Oldendorfer water pump (last year) is ticking along Ken. Thanks.
Hawk
Good to hear. 👌
Thanks for the feedback. 👍🏻
Quote from: Hawk on June 18, 2018, 01:10:59 PM
...I did a little more digging through the older "Burping" threads and Wiki 101 so will head down today and give it a try. My raw water intake is clear but that wasn't likely the problem yesterday:)
Congratulations! :D
A little over temp would, at least to me, not indicate an air lock in the coolant circulation system, because if there was it would shoot way, way up and stay there, not just be a "tad" warmer consistently, assuming you were out for more than 5 minutes.
If you're sure you filled the heater loop up, then the next step would be to warm the engine up and pop the petcock on the top of the thermostat housing, since that was the way old way to get air out. Carefully with long pliers, it's HOT.
I doubt a silly little cubic centimeter of air would cause your issues, while any really significant glob of air would cause a more catastrophic and immediate overheat.
Let us know.
Stu,
I did all of that and unfortunately the engine still increased to over 190 over about 10 minutes. normally it will run at 165 for hours at 2200rpm.
Today it starts to move from 160 toward 190 when the rpm's are at 2000. I had it in gear at the dock.
I have not done the pressure cap off and 2500 to 3000rpm option yet.
Any thoughts? Anyone?
Many thanks
Tom
Tom,
Is your TStat cap to exhaust manifold hose hot? A cool hose is symptomatic of water not circulating (possibly Tsat stuck).
Did you get to "basting" the coolant pump? What you describe happening at the dock is exactly the same symptoms he had at the dock -- he didn't take it out for a run so I can't speak to that. His pump impeller was turning "in air," not coolant. If the impeller is not bathed in liquid, then it's impossible for the coolant pump to push anything thru the block. If you are getting some flow, then the WP does not have an airlock.
The flow is from the Hx => WP => engine block => Tstat => Tstat cap => exhaust manifold => to the Hx.
As you allude, is the problem with the RWP (impeller, etc.?) or flow to or thru the Hx? (I'd suspect that last because the change you made was on the coolant side.)
-k
To build on Ken's last comment regarding the raw water side, how is the exhaust flow? If it seems like the volume is low, as Ken said, could be the HX. A few of us have experienced a salt or calcium build up in the HX nipple connected to the hose from the raw water pump. It slowly builds and ultimately closes off the flow. A simple check is to take off the hose at that end and peek in with a flashlight. If you do have the blockage, you can break it up with screwdriver.
Regards,
Ed
Still no solution on the over heating.
I put coolant into the pump, filled the hose all good. I warmed the engine up and opened the thermostat petcock so fluid ran out, all good. Ran the engine up to 2900 for several minutes with the pressure cap off of the manifold, all good.
The hose from the thermostat to the manifold warmed up as Ken suggested to check.
The raw water seems to be pumping out the stern exit port just fine and looks normal to me.
BUT up to about 1500rpm all is fine at about 160F but when I put it to 2100 the temp slowly creeps up over 10 to 15 mins toward 200F.
Normally my engine will run 10 hours straight at 2400rpms at 165F. Done it coming down from Desolation Sound several times.
SO one thought is the thermostat which is old...could replace it.
Another thought is a small blockage into or of the HX or possibly the elbow. I had the HX serviced 4 years ago at an alternator shop however.
I'm scratching my head harder now...starting to hurt. :)
Please weigh in with any thoughts/suggestions.
Thank
Tom
Quote from: Hawk on June 19, 2018, 06:41:53 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
SO one thought is the thermostat which is old...could replace it.
Another thought is a small blockage into or of the HX or possibly the elbow. I had the HX serviced 4 years ago at an alternator shop however.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Please weigh in with any thoughts/suggestions.
Tom,
Don't tear your hair out quite yet. :D Your systematic approach should be applauded and continued.
Ed wrote about our experiences with HX inlet ports. They sometimes block up with salt precipitation. I have been recommending removing the HX every two or three years, yourself, when you have the downtime, and check the ports. It's rarely the tubes. We have no idea what "service" from an alternator shop could be, but I'm sure you could tell us. In any event someone took it off. If you did, we figure you looked closely at it. If not...:D
It is also rarely the elbow. The water gushes in thru that nipple pretty quickly. The welds and the risers break first.
Thermostat? Who woulda thunk that'd be my next culprit. Got nothin' to lose there either.
Stay with it, keep us posted.
Hawk
I'm torn.
The symptoms you describe are exactly what I had with the 2" Hx. So that points to RWP flow and related in-line issues.
But I still go back to the point that all you messed with is the closed coolant side. Clarify - were the temps ok just before doing the WH work? And you didn't mess with the seawater side at all?
I had a wicked time finding out why I was overheating after messing with the closed side. Even the CTY dealer's diesel mechanic couldn't figure it out. I had just gotten her and we ended up replacing the sender, hoses, tstat, and had nearly yanked the coolant pump. That was when I was young and dumb, and didn't know about the more involved burping on the C-30s. The WH on the mk-I sits high in the sail locker and traps air. Once I learned how to burp it I never had another problem, except at higher rpm. So that, and your, issue points to not enough Hx cooling. ie, either not enough RWP flow or not enough cooling. My brain says either there is a flow blockage, or the Hx is partially blocked. I used to occasionally overheat when grass would get sucked against the intake side of the tubes (past the RWP. Huh?!?!)
But my heart says "closed coolant side."
I suppose for sanity's sake it would be worth investing in a thermometer to ck the gauge?
If you are not overheating when running at normal rpm then my brain says the tsat is opening and that's not your problem. Maybe not opening completely?
I don't have a salt issue so can't speak to the injection wye being blocked. Doesn't seem likely, tho.
I'd defo knock things off from easiest to inspect, to the more difficult. Even if the more difficult seems more likely the cause.
I don't think I've given you anything concrete as far as a magic bullet — just my thought progression I'd have if trying to troubleshoot it.
-k
Thanks Stu and Ken,
Reading the Thermostat 101 thread leads me to try replacing the thermostat as someone else replaced their WH and after burping found they also had to put in a new thermostat. I've had the boat 11 years so who knows how old it is. Could be partially stuck so only at high rpms the engine will overheat in 10 minutes as Ron mentioned, which is exactly the case. Also watching the raw water flow out the back it looks normal and certainly should not be resulting in 200F at only 2000 rpm.
So I'll find a thermostat and gasket and try that first. Looks like I need to carefully undo the bolts on the thermostat housing. Anything to be aware of in the replacement job??
Thanks guys
Tom
Tom FYI,
M-25/XP, M3-20, M35, early XPB to 3/1998 (smaller Tstat housing)
160F 38mm Tstat
Westerbeke 301358
Kubota thermostat 160F 71C 1E399-73010 $28
(supersedes p/ns 19203-73010, 19203-73013, 19203-73014.)
Therm gasket
Westerbeke 300237
Kubota 16851-73270 $ 3
(supersedes p/ns 15676-73272, 15531-73270.)
The bolts are haphazard. I just had an XP that I was sure would be a problem, but the owner said the bolts came out like butter. My '84 is 100% freshwater and 10 yrs ago I couldn't budge 'em. I tried all the usual remedies - nada. So I drilled them to use a Not-EZ- out), ran astray, and thru the side of the bolt (and naturally Tstat cap.) So I have a new cap and new bolts (they are metric, btw.) If I could, I'd have done it differently -- snapped off or drilled out just the heads and pop the cap to get rust buster on the threads and locking pliers onto the bolts.
If you do not have the hi-temp switch on your Tstat cap, I suggest while it's off, prep it to add one down the road. Eazy-peazy, drill and tap a 1/8" NPT hole on the flat part that's at about 2 o'clock, and insert a 1/8" plug. Then a Hi-temp switch can be added anytime later.
Key when you replace the tstat is to keep good continuity between it and engine block (there is a gasket in the way of that.) Corrosion (and increased resistance) will cause low readings on the gauge (which per Teleflex is only +/-15 deg accurate @ 190 F anyway.)
So I recommend owners clean the threads well, and remove paint under the bolt heads. Use copper-based never-seize (Permatex 09128 or other) on the bolts and sender, and a biting external star lockwasher under the bolt head. After all is sent home, paint/seal over the bolt heads.***
This retards corrosion wicking under the hex heads and eating away at the ground bond.
***Or install my patented temp gauge sender bonding "kit." :-)
Good luck.
-k
Thanks Ken.
I had noticed the old part number changed so your update is very helpful. Hopefully the local dealer has the tstat.
Fingers crossed that the bolts are not a problem. Thanks for the tips.
Hawk
Tom
if you can get one from a local Kb dealer or Amazon, it's a lot better than $64US from Westerbeke!
Another note that I'm sure doesn't apply to how the C34 WH's are in relation to the engine, but on the 30 MK-Is, we have to really hi rev the engine, throttle back, hi rev, etc. several times to clear the airlock. It's a PITA until the WH hose mod is done -- that removes it from being in series with the Hx circuit loop. It's (was) a Rube Goldberg arrangement....
(http://www.catalina30.com/TechLib/Engines/Cooling%20Exhaust/fresh%20water%20coolant%20system.gif)
-k
In addition to the locations of our C34 systems bearing no relationship to a C30, our water heaters are connected differently to the coolant circuit, not via the HX loop. Ken, you must remember our parallel series recent conversation?!? :D:D:D
Au contraire Stu,
The WH is plumbed exactly the same way as the C34 on all C30 MK-IIs, MK-IIIs. And MK-Is with XPs (or M-25s once the WH mod is done) per my post (not just look at the diagram, which is pre-mod!)
<<< It's a PITA until the WH hose mod is done -- that removes it from being in series with the Hx circuit loop >>>
Since the plumbing switch was made about the same time, I'm uncertain if the C34 was plumbed like OURS, or if the C30 was plumbed like YOURS. Having hit the water 10 years before the 34, we like to believe we are the leaders of the pack. :D I tend to think the mod was discovered for the C30, and then carried over to the C34 production.
C34 systems bear "no relationship"? That's pretty Parochial, 'eh? Many things are exactly the same. Many differences, but many the same.
We have sails, we have engines, the same boom section, same charging, same exploding alternator brackets, we have same cockpit panels, we have non-ABYC-compliant harness fire hazards, we have the identical water heaters, we have...... :D beer .... like the 34.
Of course I remember the loop circuit conversation, remember who had to explain it!
BTW, some time ago coming back from a family gettogether in NH, I took a ride past the old Rego Park area. Wow.
-ken
Hawk : Have you tried to blow thru the Water Heater hoses and make sure they/all are clear?
Try that then refill and then reburp!
You can also try removing the Tstat (check it in water on the stove with a candy thermometer) or even run the engine with NO thermostat.
A few thoughts
Just in relationship to your pre-1930 Mark I diagram. Sure been makin' C30s a loong time. :D They had sails and engines back then? :D:D:D
Rego Park...wow...long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...
Stu,
Non comprendo, Senor. "1930"?
Sorry, tonite I am particularly dense (not to mention CRS), you're gonna hafta humor me here?
-k
Thanks Guys. Ron, I'm sure the hoses are clear. I can get immediate liquid out the other end when I put some in.
I'm picking up a thermostat and gasket tomorrow from a Kubota dealer. Ken your new tstat part number was bang on, but they said the gasket part number is now 16264-73270. May want to check that in the USA.
Happily the two bolts came off easily. The tstat has a whitish substance covering the top 3/8ths in. Who knows.
I take it I can drop the new one in the housing filled with coolant, and put the new gasket on. Do I use any gasket goop or no? Then burp again?
Thanks!
Tom
My distributor still shows 16851-73270 as good. 16264-73270 is also good. I have seen different p/ns of the same item when they are on different equipment. Your number may just be a "same as."
No goop, just clean surfaces. Re-burp. Cross fingers. Pray to Neptune while sacrificing a virgin on the bow. Oh no, that's renaming. Sorry.
-k
Tom : Just because coolant will come out the other end when added, doesn't mean that the lines are COMPLETELY clear - blow thru it and then you can tell!!
A thought
Still at it with a twist.
The thermostat went in fine and appears all well when at lower rpms.
Today I noticed that in gear when put to full throttle the rpm is max 2200. Way lower than normal. Then in neutral it will go as normal up to about 3,000. I checked the throttle assembly and cable at the engine and the little locking nut was loose but I'll have to really assess what going on.
I did see a similar thread here http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,1704.msg9198.html#msg9198
AND I still experienced the temp moving steadily past 180 when I had the throttle at 2000 rpm which I realized was near the max on the throttle lever (in gear not in neutral) So I've got two non-normal things going on with my departure date looming):
IDeas welcome.
Tom
Total shot in the dark, and I may be way off base, but I recall an incident from decades back of an engine that overheated and produced insufficient power that ultimately turned out to be exhaust manifold obstruction. The exhaust gas back pressure both reduced the power and increased operating temperatures under load.
Tom
Did you check the actual temp w/ a zap thermometer?
Did you check the hx and other stuff suggested?
i feel a plane ticket may be your saving ticket. Ha! I have my passport and everthing! d:-0
-k
Thanks guys. I'll have to keep working on it...Ron's suggestion and checking the HX. The thing is that all this started after replacing the water heater, which turned out to be the easy bit.
Ken,
Where would I check the temp on the engine when I find a zap thermometer?
Tom
Typically at the tstat cap but you can hit it different places.
A non contact thermometer at Harbor Freight or online.
I own both of these and both are good. Bought first one in 2014 for $16 for engine and other uses, and it's still serving me well. Bought the second one for $26 a few months ago for HVAC and other stuff at our offices where I needed a narrower "cone" of sensitivity for reading things at a greater distance - also good. For engines, the first one is fine.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006V4WNYU
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K5QVBCU
Thanks guys,
I guess another test would be to run the engine up to the rpms where the temp was rising past 180F with the new thermostat removed??
Does that make any sense?
Tom
IIWMB I wouldn't. Don't know what that troubleshoots or proves.
I would find the cause and take care of it.
What will taking the tstat out do as far as isolating the cause? We know it will run cooler with no tstat.
But if you're looking for a temporary quick fix for the excursion, then I'd consider that if you can't isolate the cause before then.
-k
I can't remember if you said you checked the hoses going to and coming back from the water heater? It took a lot of screwing around to get the air out of my system after replacing the hoses going to the water heater from the engine. I knew it was finally burped when the hose coming back from the water heater was warm to the touch. Before that, it stayed cool. Just a thought.
Yes thanks, I have immediate flow in the loop through the WH and have several times repeated Stu's method. All hoses that should be hot are indicating coolant flow.
The latest on this yesterday is that for good measure I checked the HX inlet which was clear. I cleared the raw water seacock inlet again which seemed fine ( and the exhaust water discharge has always looked fine).
I burped the system Stu's way and then by running the engine without the manifold cap and revved it up a few times.
Replaced the thermostat 2 days ago with a new 160F which seems fine.
But here's the rub as I mentioned before. I can run the engine in neutral up to 27/2800 yesterday for 15 minutes and the temp is happily sitting at about 165F. BUT when I put into forward gear I can only get the rpm to 2200 with full throttle. AND the temp starts slowly increasing over 10 minutes past 180F+.
Yes, I double checked and marked the throttle linkage location when at full throttle in neutral (2800 rpm) and then again when in gear (maxed out 2200). The linkage was in the same position when at full throttle in neutral and in gear but the max rpms were very different as above.
So it appears that the cooling system is working and I can run at high rpm in neutral with steady 165F. BUT now when put into gear I have diminished RPM in gear and increasing temps.
I have not yet jumped in the water to check the prop. Murky water. But could I have picked up something around the prop coincidentally? I presume that could reduce rpm and cause the engine to work harder?WILL CHECK THIS.
I have not yet changed the two fuel filters. changed them two seasons ago. WILL DO THIS. Could there be an issue with reduced fuel?
The key issue now seems to be why would the engine purr along with cooling fine in neutral at high rpms BUT have immediate diminished RPMs from a max 2900 when in neutral, down to 2200 with throttle at full AND then the temp begins to increase toward 190 and 200F over about 10 minutes??
Sorry to keep coming back on this guys. I'm at bit of a loss. The water heater replacement went just fine but now this............boats!:)
Keep your thoughts coming ...they are really helpful.
Hawk
Tom,
The low RPM seems would be a different issue than the temp. It continues to act like 1) you have a 2" Hx or 2) air. 1) points to a blockage somewhere. 2) -- well self-explanatory. But air in the WH loop wouldn't affect the Hx cooling unless a slug got to the pump impeller and it lost prime due to spinning in air and not coolant. Again, the symptoms are exactly the same as the XP I just had that had a coolant pump air lock.
Crazy question for the PNW I suppose, but any huge change in seawater temp?
Is the return hose from the Hx to the coolant pump warm? cold? HOT?
Is the short Tstst to the exh manifold hose HOT? Cool?
Is the manifold to HX hose HOT? Cool?
Is the hose to or from your vented loop HOT? or cool? Good flow? You could suck from a 5 gal bucket to determine the Ob pumping rate in gpm.
-k
Hawk,
I was thinking prop as well after your last post. Time to get the wet suit on I guess. Any darker smoke in the exhaust when in gear?
Regards,
Ed
Ed, no dark smoke, looks normal at idle and at 2200 in gear.
Ken, I ran the engine at 2700 in neutral after I was testing in gear when I could only get 2200 in gear. The darn temp started dropping once in neutral at the higher rpms and got to about 165 and happily stayed there for 15 mins.
Something is not right. Am I correct that if I had an air lock or some blockage it would cause the temp to go up in neutral as well as in gear?
I have to rule out any prop wrap but not sure how that could have happened.
Thanks again guys.
Hawk
Quote from: Hawk on June 25, 2018, 06:57:47 PM
Something is not right. Am I correct that if I had an airlock or some blockage it would cause the temp to go up in neutral as well as in gear?
I have to rule out any prop wrap but not sure how that could have happened.
Tom
there's not necessarily a yes/no answer to that. A diesel will throw more heat when under load. More work, more energy used and ipso, more heat generated and so more to be removed thru the Hx. It's "a law" Tom. But that said, a prop cutting thru water isn't like a diesel truck huffing it up a hill.
So it's not absolute, it's a matter of "degrees" :roll:
If you were JUST borderline balanced on heat input to the Hx and heat removed, then in gear it could throw it over the top. A wrap would defo use more energy input, so more heat output.
k
Thanks Ken, Just to wrap up the outcome I decided that the new water heater replacement was unlikely to be the source of my low rpm and over heat issues. Since the HX and exhaust elbow/riser were potential suspects AND they were likely much more than 10 years old I ordered new one of each from Catalina Direct and shipped to my shipping box in Pt. Roberts Washington. I knew I was going to get banged up with the CDN 30% exchange rate and them 12% CDN tax. But when the CDN border officer said, `You heard about the new countervailing surcharge duties....ugh no.
Add another 25% on top for importing US steel....and while you fork over even more $ we`re supposed to say, Take that Trump!
Anyway, with a friend we installed the new HX and the new ss riser. I put a new flange on as well and the fancy insulating jacket that one must purchase. Frankly the old elbow and riser looked fine but given its age and Stu`s 12 yr replacement I am avoiding a big problem if it broke when underway. Stu`s tech notes were very useful.
Then I was away sailing in Italy on a friends boat so only just this week took the boat out for a test. I thought that if the low rpm under power issue persisted then I was looking at rebuilding the injector pump which is well described by Ron in a tech note. But happily all is just fine...good power at 2500rpm and steady at 165 degrees temp. The problem may have been the HX and perhaps involving the riser.
I`m sailing over the Gulf Islands finally on Monday. Thanks for everyone`s help over the last few months!
Hawk
Hawk
Super that the new parts appear to have fixed your issues!!
It's tough to pay thru the nose once you already pay over priced CD.
"We" say America is a work in progress experiment. I remember from science class, not all portions of an experiment turn out to be successful. But hopefully the lessons get learned and the failures are not repeated. <smile>
-k
I hear you Ken. Just for good measure I have appealed the 25% countervailing duty surcharge on the US steel HX and Riser. May as well make them work for it.
Ground # 1..."It's already too expensive!"
Hawk
Hawk,
Good luck with that one exclamation exclamation
My prediction is that next season it won't be around anymore.
(At least that's the way things are looking, downhill slide, beginning of the end as it were.)
-k
Quote from: Hawk on August 25, 2018, 03:09:15 PM>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I`m sailing over the Gulf Islands finally on Monday. Thanks for everyone`s help over the last few months!
Hawk
If you'e coming anywhere near Maple Bay, please let me know. Would be fun to finally meet you.
Hey Stu,
We got as far as Telegraph Harbour but only a short 3 day and back to Vancouver. I've actually never been to Maple Bay but we'll try and make it happen.
Tom