I removed my grab rails last week and have been stripping and sanding ever since. One side I was able to unscrew the acorn nuts from below and remove the rail without removing any plugs. The other side I had to remove 4 teak plugs because the acorn nuts would spin the whole screw. Now it's time to somehow secure the screws from spinning and replace the teak plugs. My question is should I super glue the screws before replacing the plugs or just clean and anti-seize the treads? Also, when replacing the teak plugs, should I glue in, varnish in, or press fit? My plan is to seal and varnish with Flagship many coats so glued in plugs may not be necessary.
Another issue is blotchiness. After stripping and sanding, I applied a coat of teak oil and the rails have many blotchy spots. See photo. Bleach did not seem to help much before I teak oiled. Will TSP or teak cleaner help or is this just the way old teak looks? I really don't want to sand my rails down to toothpick size.
Why did you oil if planning to varnish? Try oxalic acid, that is my preferred "bleach" for teak.
Quote from: Noah on April 17, 2017, 10:05:31 AM
Why did you oil if planning to varnish? Try oxalic acid, that is my preferred "bleach" for teak.
I read a article on West Marine site that said to oil before varnishing and let oil set in for a few weeks. Also, it says to let stand for 72hrs before varnishing on the Watco teak oil can.
Really? Never heard about that way of doing things in all my years varnishing. Regardless, first you need to get the teak where you want it, before you put on any finish oil or varnish. Just wet with water and that will show you the color/condition of the wood, and if you have removed all staining, etc., or if it needs more "work", using the appropriate wood bleach, letting the sun's UV work on it, etc. Some staining may never come out. Remember to light sand again after water, as it will raise the grain. Then for varnishing, start with a thinned coat (50% varnish and 50% thinner) for first cost, then sand and build up with 100% coats (or slightly thinned depending on weather and brush ability) from there.
Quote from: Noah on April 17, 2017, 10:52:34 AM
Really? Never heard about that way of doing things in all my years varnishing.
I never have either but the teak oil can says to clean with mineral spirits so it must be oil based. I think the idea is to replenish the natural oil that's been lost due to stripping, and cleaning and add some color.
I used gel stripper to remove the varnish but seems like it took off as much teak as varnish. I'll try the heat method next time.
I was always told to wipe/wet down the teak with acetone to remove any natural oils before varnishing?
Go figure
Quote from: lazybone on April 17, 2017, 01:57:32 PM
I was always told to wipe/wet down the teak with acetone to remove any natural oils before varnishing?
Go figure
Yes, that's what I've read. To remove oil on the surface. I'll let it dry out for a few days then sand oxalic acid wash as Noah suggested.
It appears like there's possibly varnish sealing the pores so that the uptake of the teak oil isn't uniform. Is that possible?
I ran across the identical thing with half of my grab rail carriage bolts. I was able to get them back on and tight without needing to do anything extraordinary.
Next time I need to remove them, I'll do one of two things:
A) Epoxy the head/square of the carriage bolt into the grab rail.
B) Eliminate the need to mess with plugs again. i.e., Epoxy and re drill the holes, and use lag bolts up from below in favor of nuts, acorn nuts showing.
kk
PS, I've found oxy clean ( or dollar store brand) to be a great teak cleaner/bleach.
I recommend just keep up the maintenance and no need to remove them if they aren't leaking.
It looks to me that moisture has penetrated the teak and the only way to remove the dark spots is by standing. Try sanding one spot lightly to see if it is surface spot or goes deeper. As Noah suggested, wipe with water to see how the final product will look like.
Paul
Quote from: Noah on April 17, 2017, 08:32:31 PM
I recommend just keep up the maintenance and no need to remove them if they aren't leaking.
I agree.
The "trick" to avoid having the bungs coming out from above when you lift the handrails is to remove the acorn nuts and NOT push up on the all-thread, and then back out the intermediate screws and push up on the screws. The handrail will lift enough to do what Noah shows.
You can refinish
and/or rebed them this way.
Stu,
Are you saying partially lift and retighren the rails with sealant under them?
I initially used teak lifecaulk, but next time I'll probably use butyl. With butyl's holding power, I'm not sure it would be that easy to get the rail lifted without prying it completely off. Nevertheless, don't you think it might invite leaks when reinstalling them without redoing the bedding?
If that's the maintenance routine, what would you think about using something like a silicone rubber pad rather than butyl?
ken
Quote from: KWKloeber on April 18, 2017, 07:34:28 AM
1...Are you saying partially lift and retighren the rails with sealant under them?
2. I initially used teak lifecaulk, but next time I'll probably use butyl. With butyl's holding power, I'm not sure it would be that easy to get the rail lifted without prying it completely off. Nevertheless, don't you think it might invite leaks when reinstalling them without redoing the bedding?
3. If that's the maintenance routine, what would you think about using something like a silicone rubber pad rather than butyl?
1. Partially lift, yes, but not remove. If they are leaking there's no sealant left. Lift them up enough to clean out the gunk that may be left.
2. Most folks have or used silicone. That's why they leak!!! :D If you use butyl tape from Maine Sail, it will last the next 30 years, so I wouldn't figure I'd ever have to do it again. :D
3. There's a "maintenance routine" that is repetitive, then there's butyl, which is almost a once-a-lifetime event. 30 years from now if that's the case, then maybe you'd have to lift them higher, but I doubt it. Pads may not get into the grooves the way the softer butyl tape will. Depending on how you "make up" the tape, it may be wise to use two layers under the rails. I did when I reinstalled my saloon hatch.
Quote from: KWKloeber on April 18, 2017, 07:34:28 AM
Stu,
Are you saying partially lift and retighren the rails with sealant under them?
I initially used teak lifecaulk, but next time I'll probably use butyl. With butyl's holding power, I'm not sure it would be that easy to get the rail lifted without prying it completely off. Nevertheless, don't you think it might invite leaks when reinstalling them without redoing the bedding?
If that's the maintenance routine, what would you think about using something like a silicone rubber pad rather than butyl?
ken
I saw one post where o-rings were used. That seems like a simple was of keeping water from seeping into the screw holes. When I removed the rails, it looked like a thin layer of a tar like substance was under the rails. Don't know if that's OEM or not.
Stu,
Just to be precise, mainsail isn't the only source for butyl. C30-ers have used mine for two decades on the aluminum "RV" windows. I just haven't given it a fancy name. :shock: Shipping is less and you don't need to buy two rolls at a time if you don't want to. :thumb:
Anyway, what I'm trying to get at is presuming you have a good seal, no leaks, and just performing revarnish maintenance, you don't think there's an issue on disturbing the butyl to raise the grabs? Aren't you concerned about introducing a leak?
Also if I did need to re-bed, I would definitely remove them totally to make sure I got the old gunk off the meeting services before butylizing them. MBMC. :D
kk
I saw that also, which led me to the silicone rubber pad idea. My concern was, with an O ring you have a single line of defense. As Stu mentioned, with nooks and crannies the attack is up against that limited fortress. With a large soft silicone rubber pad, I'd expect there'd be less chance of a molecule sneaking by.
kk
Quote from: mark_53 on April 18, 2017, 08:43:09 AM
Quote from: KWKloeber on April 18, 2017, 07:34:28 AM
Stu,
Are you saying partially lift and retighren the rails with sealant under them?
I initially used teak lifecaulk, but next time I'll probably use butyl. With butyl's holding power, I'm not sure it would be that easy to get the rail lifted without prying it completely off. Nevertheless, don't you think it might invite leaks when reinstalling them without redoing the bedding?
If that's the maintenance routine, what would you think about using something like a silicone rubber pad rather than butyl?
ken
I saw one post where o-rings were used. That seems like a simple was of keeping water from seeping into the screw holes. When I removed the rails, it looked like a thin layer of a tar like substance was under the rails. Don't know if that's OEM or not.
Quote from: KWKloeber on April 18, 2017, 08:55:34 AM
1. Just to be precise, mainsail isn't the only source for butyl. C30-ers have used mine for two decades on the aluminum "RV" windows. I just haven't given it a fancy name. :shock: Shipping is less and you don't need to buy two rolls at a time if you don't want to. :thumb:
2. Anyway, what I'm trying to get at is presuming you have a good seal, no leaks, and just performing revarnish maintenance, you don't think there's an issue on disturbing the butyl to raise the grabs? Aren't you concerned about introducing a leak?
3. Also if I did need to re-bed, I would definitely remove them totally to make sure I got the old gunk off the meeting services before butylizing them. MBMC. :D
1. That's good news. Who knew?!? :shock: Maybe call it "Ken's Goop" or something refreshing. :D I only bought two rolls to make sure I had a long lasting supply. I'm still with 20% of the first roll left, or I'd try your stuff, too.
2. I agree, but for re-varnishing couldn't one not even need to lift them and just tape? I've removed everything from my rails and the eyebrow. I got tired of redoing them.
3. Maybe, so we just choose to do what we desire on our own boats. :D
I never have removed mine, just taped. I've never had any leaks there to deal with (yet).
Stu,
It's funny--not funny ha ha, funny curious. When I started searching and chose the MK-I, I looked at many makes/models, and really detested the sleek, stark fiberglass, stainless look of the others I had looked at.
That was when I was still young and dumb.
Now that I'm old and dumb, there's two words in my future. "PlasTeak" and "stainless." Yikes.
Two decades ago I read a Sail magazine tip by an old salt who sailed with a his wife's empty nail polish bottle filled and at the ready (with varnish and built in brush) so he could pull the trigger at any second.
I looked it up in the dictionary. His picture was right there next to "Too much time on one's hands."
kk
BLASPHEMY!! :cry4`
I just love lots of beautifully finished teak . . . on my neighbor's boat!
Good one.
I keep searching, without success, for a dock neighbor who loves to refinish teak.
And confuses my boat with his.
I wholeheartedly agree with Wayne. :thumb:
Ok, so here's an update for the keep it natural guys since you like to look at others finished teak.
After letting the Watco teak oil dry out for a week I re-sanded and applied Starbrite teak brightener which contains oxalic acid. Now to let it dry, re-sand, and apply sealer and Flagship.
Looks like that oxalic acid bleach blend worked nicely on your discoloration! IMO "sealer is NOT necessary nor desired prior to applying your Flagship varnish. Just spply 50/50 varnish and thinner for first coat.
Quote from: Noah on April 25, 2017, 04:52:38 PM
Looks like that oxalic acid bleach blend worked nicely on your discoloration! IMO "sealer is NOT necessary nor desired prior to applying your Flagship varnish. Just spply 50/50 varnish and thinner for first coat.
Noah, your rails look great but why do you say the sealer is not desired? Flagship can says to use sealer on new wood. I'm thinking your 50/50 mix of varnish and thinner is essentially the same thing as a sealer by deeply penetrating the wood.
50/50 varnish and thinner would essentailally act as a "the sealer". I just would not recommend introducing another brand product/step into your hard fought journey, when it is not needed and could potentially be an added complication or incompatibility. Keep it simple. IMO.
Well, Noah has more experience varnishing than I ever will, but the links below might help (or simply complicate matters).
The manufacturer does indeed suggest that a coat of their own (not someone else's) sealer is helpful in creating a good bond to bare teak.
http://iboats.com/mall/image/pdfs/Flagship-Varnish.pdf
However, other users do not necessarily agree:
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?134161-Sanding-Sealer-prior-to-Varnish
My guess is that either will work. Noah speaks from years of experience.
Jeremy
Varnishes and clear wood finishes brands and techniques are very personal and often subjective. I am currently a fan of Epifanse products, but over the years I have liked Captains varnish as well. If Flagship "wants" you to use their special sealer first, instead of just thinning the varnish 50/50, I can see no draw back to this, but keep within their brand system of products (thinners, dryers, etc.). However, the skeptic in me could think that their "sealer step" MAY just be a marketing ploy to sell an additional product.