Catalina 34

General Activities => Main Message Board => Topic started by: DaveBMusik on January 31, 2016, 05:58:42 PM

Title: What would you do?
Post by: DaveBMusik on January 31, 2016, 05:58:42 PM
I'm looking for a C34 and would appreciate any advice.
Would you go with a 1986 which has been extensively upgraded 4 years ago - new, larger yamaha engine, new sails, new fuel tank, new electronics including chart plotter and radar, new stays and running rigging complete with dingy for around 30K (only negative seems to be a few leaks to chase down-the hull and deck came back clear for moisture) or look for a MKII of the 2000 vintage around 70K?
The basic question: Do we spend the extra to enjoy a more modern hull and cabin while hoping not to get hammered with depreciation at the end (5 to 10 year mark).
What would you do?
Thanks for your help! - Dave
Title: Re: What would you do?
Post by: Stu Jackson on January 31, 2016, 06:23:16 PM
Wow, Dave what a choice!!!  30 vs 70.  Forget depreciation, because by the time your cold dead fingers release whatever boat you choose, they'll be the same.  We ain't in it for the $$$!!!

Lots depends on where and how you sail.  If you use a LOT of dinghy time, the walk through is far superior.

However, if your wife is short, she ain't gonna like the Mark II.  We have a couple here who have had a Mark I and now a Mark II (among many two timer C34 owners!) and she can't brace herself from one side of the cockpit to the other.

As I mentioned in answer to GeeCee on another post, the boats, with proper maintenance, will last forever.  Finding one with the features you described with a few leaks as the ONLY issue (and we've solved those leaks already and will show you where to find out how to fix them) is an extremely good deal.  We love our closed transom Mark I '86 and we do dinghy, but not a lot.
Title: Re: What would you do?
Post by: DaveBMusik on January 31, 2016, 06:47:29 PM
Thanks Stu! Does 5' qualify as short? 😀
That's something I did not think about
Title: Re: What would you do?
Post by: Jim Hardesty on January 31, 2016, 08:06:22 PM
As a MKll owner I agree with Stu about the bracing, I'm 5' 6" and can't really brace myself when healed way over.  Wish Catalina would have made the seats 3" wider, would have solved the bracing problem and make the already great naps that much more comfortable.  Then again She sail better with a little less heal, so perhaps a sail trim is called for.  My previous boat was happy with the rail in the water, Shamrock not so happy.  I really like my MKll.  But, I think I would be just as happy with another model.  My Wife wanted the stern seats, I like them and guest love them.
The best advice is condition, condition.....    For most it's much better to buy a boat that needs little work then it is to buy a boat that is already needy.  Funny thing, some boats that need the least are the boats that get the most attention from owners.  Boats that need the most get the least.   Even on a good boat there is plenty to do.  Luckily it's very enjoyable.
Just my opinion.
Jim
Title: Re: What would you do?
Post by: Ken Juul on February 01, 2016, 06:39:04 AM
When we were boat shopping could not decide on a 34 or 36.  We were on a road trip in Fla and stumbled across a boat show.  Quiet Sunday, not much action before shutdown.  Dealer had a 34 and a 36, both early 90 models.  He let us snoop around both of them.  After about a half hour in each.  Admiral decided the 34 was the boat for us.  Bottom line, you and your Admiral need to spend some time on both models and decide which is right for you.  Knees and balance aren't what they used to be.  A walk thru transom and swim platform was a must for us.
Title: Re: What would you do?
Post by: Jeff Kaplan on February 01, 2016, 07:04:35 AM
Dave,  I own an '86 #219, bought her 11 years ago.  I did extensive upgrades to the boat to bring her up to date, spending lots of money.  If you can get the 86 for around 30K, go for it.  The boat is great, handles well, loves 15-22 knot winds, thick hull, well built back in the day, safe and very comfortable. You can find the few leaks and fix them.  My advise, save the money and spend it elsewhere.  Good luck...Jeff
Title: Re: What would you do?
Post by: Andrew Harvey on February 01, 2016, 07:40:43 AM
There are ways to live without the walk thru transom.
There have been many discussions here about modifying the stern pulpit and adding swim platforms.
We love our '86. 


Title: Re: What would you do?
Post by: mregan on February 01, 2016, 08:39:58 AM
Save the $40K and buy the '86.  Just add a swim platform.  We did this past season.  Makes a world of difference.
Title: Re: What would you do?
Post by: KWKloeber on February 01, 2016, 09:42:21 AM
Buying a boat is a 99% emotional and 1% logical decision.   If it were logical, this forum would likely be very thin.
10 years is a ways out, though it may not seem like it now.   Forget the depreciated value.

Buy the "best" boat that you can afford.  "Best" = what?  That's the emotional decisions you must weigh.  best for one isn't best for another.

kk
Title: Re: What would you do?
Post by: Alex W on February 03, 2016, 07:58:37 AM
I thought a tablet / iPad as a repeater was a great idea, until I tried it.  They do not have sunlight readable screens.  Absolutely useless even on a mostly cloudy day.  Also, something about the coating on my iPad screen I have a lot more trouble with the viewing angle when wearing my polarized glasses.

That said, I do sometimes appreciate using my iPad as a repeater at the nav station.
Title: Re: What would you do?
Post by: Roland Gendreau on February 04, 2016, 03:32:18 PM
When we started shopping for our C34, we got very close to buying a Mk1, but then looked at the Mk1.5 - we really liked the open transom and ten years later, we are glad we spent a little more to get that feature.   I recommend you shop enough to ensure  you don't have buyer's remorse!

Title: Re: What would you do?
Post by: DaveBMusik on February 06, 2016, 04:28:50 PM
Thanks for all of your suggestions!

Stu,

You mentioned the MK1 might be better for a shorter person. Is the distance between cockpit seats in the MK 1.5 the same as the MK II (wider)?
Title: Re: What would you do?
Post by: Noah on February 06, 2016, 06:05:51 PM
One thought...you might consider installing a triangled foot chock on the cockpit floor to brace against. I have seen this on wide race boats.
Title: Re: What would you do?
Post by: Stu Jackson on February 06, 2016, 06:30:59 PM
Quote from: DaveBMusik on February 06, 2016, 04:28:50 PM
Is the distance between cockpit seats in the MK 1.5 the same as the MK II (wider)?

Yes.  Only wider on the Mark IIs.
Title: Re: What would you do?
Post by: jstrane on February 07, 2016, 05:19:37 PM
MKII but I'm bias.. Hull 1759
Title: Re: What would you do?
Post by: Clay Greene on February 09, 2016, 08:33:51 AM
I agree that this comes down to personal preference and whether the perceived advantages of the Mark II boat justify the additional cost.  Here are some considerations I can think of based on owning a Mark I boat and spending a lot of time on a friend's Mark II boat:

1.  The Mark II cockpit is wider and therefore better for entertaining/relaxing while the boat is stationary.  The Mark I cockpit is better for sailing with significant heel. 

2.  The interior of the Mark I boat usually is oiled teak and darker than the varnished and sealed teak on the Mark II boat.  The Mark II boat also has overhead lights and the porthole window between the two storage cabinets in the salon.  To me, this is the biggest difference between the look and feel of the two boats. 

3.  The Mark I boat has a lot of exterior teak and the Mark II has little or none.  You may like the look of the exterior teak but it involves maintenance or it is going to look terrible. 

4.  I think the Mark I boat has more out-of-sight storage in the salon with the cabinets that have the plastic sliding doors.  On the downside, you have the black plastic sliding doors.  We replaced ours with teak plywood.  The Mark II boat added a cabinet in the aft cabin. 

5.  I don't know if the 1986 is deck-stepped or keel-stepped - it could be either, I believe.  A keel-stepped boat is going to have water in the bilge any time it rains.  The Mark II boat is deck-stepped so water in the bilge will be less of an issue.   

6.  A small thing but I hated the head sink on the Mark I boat.  It is right under the cockpit floor so it was a pain to use.  Catalina adjusted the orientation in the Mark II boats so that it was not directly under the cockpit floor.  Another small thing on our Mark I boat - no overflow tank for the engine coolant - just a hose that dripped coolant in the engine bilge every time the engine ran. We added an overflow tank. 

7.  Check out the important upgrades page.  You'll need to address several of those issues on the 1986 boat if they have not been done already - engine wiring harness and alternator bracket in particular. 

8.  I don't know why but engine and filter access was worse on my friend's Mark II boat than our Mark I boat.  He did not have a side panel in the aft cabin to access the dipstick.  His Racor filter also was under the mattresses in the aft cabin - ours was under the sink in the head.  He did have a hinged lid in the aft cabin for access to the back of the engine, which was good for access to the transmission fluid dipstick. 

I guess in terms of my overall opinion, I preferred sailing my boat but I liked living on my friend's Mark II boat better.  Just more proof that every boat is a compromise so the challenge is finding out what matters most to you and your significant other and determining how much you're willing to pay for it. 
Title: Re: What would you do?
Post by: Roc on February 09, 2016, 09:06:15 AM
I don't feel my MkII cockpit is "too wide" for sailing comfort.  If there is significant heel, then something needs to be done to spill out some air off the sails.  The cockpit width is not the issue, it's heeling too much.  I find the size of our cockpit is great for sailing (can move around easy) and at dockside.  Didn't know that Catalina adjusted the head sink for the MkII boats, but I can say, whatever they did, was meaningless.  You'll hit your head if you attempt to use the sink, other than washing your hands.  The head sink is far from being usable (boat compromise).  I don't find changing fuel or oil filters a problem.  They are pretty well accessible.  I added a small door on the side of the engine house in the aft cabin to access the HX zinc (see projects).  Well worth it.  I also cut the plywood, under the aft cushions (where the two cushions meet), so I can pull it out easily to get to the back of the engine. 
Title: Re: What would you do?
Post by: Stu Jackson on February 09, 2016, 09:14:47 AM
Quote from: Clay Greene on February 09, 2016, 08:33:51 AM

5.  I don't know if the 1986 is deck-stepped or keel-stepped - it could be either, I believe.  A keel-stepped boat is going to have water in the bilge any time it rains.  The Mark II boat is deck-stepped so water in the bilge will be less of an issue.   

6.  A small thing but I hated the head sink on the Mark I boat.  It is right under the cockpit floor so it was a pain to use.  Catalina adjusted the orientation in the Mark II boats so that it was not directly under the cockpit floor.  Another small thing on our Mark I boat - no overflow tank for the engine coolant - just a hose that dripped coolant in the engine bilge every time the engine ran. We added an overflow tank. 

8.  I don't know why but engine and filter access was worse on my friend's Mark II boat than our Mark I boat.  He did not have a side panel in the aft cabin to access the dipstick.  His Racor filter also was under the mattresses in the aft cabin - ours was under the sink in the head.  He did have a hinged lid in the aft cabin for access to the back of the engine, which was good for access to the transmission fluid dipstick. 

I guess in terms of my overall opinion, I preferred sailing my boat but I liked living on my friend's Mark II boat better.  Just more proof that every boat is a compromise so the challenge is finding out what matters most to you and your significant other and determining how much you're willing to pay for it.

Clay, very good points and well presented.

5.  It was an option.   http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,1406.msg7546.html#msg7546 (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,1406.msg7546.html#msg7546)

6.  We just don't bother using the head sink.  The galley sink is sure close enough.  :D

8.  Lou Berman wrote a Tech Note about that years ago.  Seems the factory "forgot" that handy little door to the dipstick on the first few production runs of the Mark II, later corrected.

For those with fixed Mark II cockpit tables, I've found they get in the way when sailing.  IIRC, the big table in the center of the cockpit was an option, and I don't recall any of our skippers here getting boats with them.  I've always felt the feature was good for marina queens, but not so much for sailing, they get in the way.
Title: Re: What would you do?
Post by: Stu Jackson on February 09, 2016, 09:17:46 AM
Quote from: Roc on February 09, 2016, 09:06:15 AM
I don't feel my MkII cockpit is "too wide" for sailing comfort.  If there is significant heel, then something needs to be done to spill out some air off the sails.  The cockpit width is not the issue, it's heeling too much. 

Roc, true.  The earlier point was made that it IS too wide for shorter sailors, see my notes above.  Even reefed here on SF Bay, heeling is a fact of life.  :D
Title: Re: What would you do?
Post by: Clay Greene on February 09, 2016, 10:08:43 AM
Certainly no disrespect intended to the Mark II boat's sailing abilities.  Roc is certainly right that too much heel is generally an operator issue.  To Stu's point, though - shorter sailors necessarily includes kids.  We raised our twin girls on our Mark I boat and it was good that they were always able to brace themselves easily.  We now own a C387, which if you measure by the cost of cockpit seats, has the largest cockpit ever made by Catalina, so sliding around is definitely an issue with us if we start to heel too much.  But we have the centerline cockpit table, which I actually like and do not find to be a hindrance while sailing. 

I thought of another difference related to weather helm.  The Mark II boat has the larger, elliptical-shaped rudder that is going to help the boat stay on track and fight off the weather helm that shows up when the apparent wind gets into the teens.  Again, to Roc's point, better to avoid weather helm entirely by reducing sail so you don't need the bigger rudder surface area to keep the boat from spinning up into the wind. 
Title: Re: What would you do?
Post by: Noah on February 09, 2016, 10:25:36 AM
"Getting around" the big steering wheel on my MK 1 has been a complaint with some. At anchor, I remove it and store on top of dodger.
Title: Re: What would you do?
Post by: Clay Greene on February 09, 2016, 02:23:49 PM
Have you looked into the Lewmar folding wheel? 
Title: Re: What would you do?
Post by: Noah on February 09, 2016, 03:02:59 PM
Yes. Thx. But it doesn't bother me enough to throw lots of $ at it. Also, I do like the feel of my solid wheel. Just a bit incovenient to switch helmsmen, especially when the situation gets a little "heated" on deck--which it occassionally it does on my boat... :shock: :D
Title: Re: What would you do?
Post by: lazybone on February 09, 2016, 03:08:28 PM
When it gets heated on deck, anchor, then retire below and ...
Title: Re: What would you do?
Post by: Stu Jackson on February 09, 2016, 03:53:34 PM
Quote from: Noah on February 09, 2016, 03:02:59 PM<<<SNIP>>>
Just a bit incovenient to switch helmsmen, especially when the situation gets a little "heated" on deck--which it occassionally it does on my boat... :shock: :D

You, too, eh?  What we find works is we agree on which side the new helmsman will come in from and the current helmsperson slides out the other side.  Or overboard,  whichever comes first!   :rolling

That's why I keep banging the drum on making sure one's binnacle handhold is available at all times, instead of covering it up with instruments. :party

I also figure I get some "exercise" by stepping up and over to get behind the wheel.  I've never been thin enough to slide on by.  :roll:   :D :D :D
Title: Re: What would you do?
Post by: Wayne on February 10, 2016, 05:18:42 PM
I back into my slip, and so really value the ease of walking on and off my boat through the open transom.