This is an additional thread from my previous one titled rigging got hit. After inspection yesterday it appears the mast will be condemned. I put out several call today to start the process of the mast replacement so I know my options when I discuss with marina and insurance company. Seems that no one is sure who built the mast. Charleston spar did confirm it was not theirs when I sent pic and they believed it was a forspar and that profile is no longer available. UGGG!! I spoke with the factory today and they are getting back to me.
Does anyone have any suggestions to determine the spar manufacturer and where to get one. The factory did say the believed a new seldon package ( read very expensive) from a 355 would fit if I changed the mast base and the standing rigging. Sails would be a little small for it though.
Cory
I'm surprised that Catalina Yachts does not have production record documents on what they used when they built your boat (by searching your hull number). If anything they should know who they bought masts from in that particular period of time.
Quote from: cmainprize on November 05, 2015, 04:53:19 PM
This is an additional thread from my previous one titled rigging got hit. After inspection yesterday it appears the mast will be condemned. I put out several call today to start the process of the mast replacement so I know my options when I discuss with marina and insurance company. Seems that no one is sure who built the mast. Charleston spar did confirm it was not theirs when I sent pic and they believed it was a forspar and that profile is no longer available. UGGG!! I spoke with the factory today and they are getting back to me.
Does anyone have any suggestions to determine the spar manufacturer and where to get one. The factory did say the believed a new seldon package ( read very expensive) from a 355 would fit if I changed the mast base and the standing rigging. Sails would be a little small for it though.
Surely CTY can tell you (eventually.)
If wanting to nail it down sooner, talk to Sparcraft a/k/a Charleston Spar in Charlotte (704) 597-1502 Check your dimensions against the FM 580 size:
(//)
kk
After further research it was confirmed the original mast was made by forespar and is no longer available. We are working with Sparcraft on a replacement. It's amazing how much is involved now that we can not get a direct replacement for the extrusion. Starting from the deck step to the mast head everything needs to measured and triple checked. All standing rigging will need to engineered on the boat as the lengths are not exactly know. We have started to list everything from top to bottom to ensure we don't miss anything. Once the mast leaves the factory it will be a problem to change later. We are still trying to figure out if we can reuse the boom. The repair costs are going to well exceed 20k.
I will document the process in writing and pics for the next poor soul who gets unlucky.
The positive thing we are going to have an awesome flag pole in out front yard!
Just curious, did you consider in mast furling? FWIW I'm very happy with mine.
Jim
Hi Jim, I did and am still. 2k difference in mast and then a new main. Once I have all the final pricing and options I will decide. We were about to list the boat when this happened as we are looking at the C42. Not sure I want o spend the extra money if I won't be the one sailing the boat. Obviously I need to wait to list until i get everything back together. I am confident it will as good if not better then prior to the mast getting hit. But it's tough to list if with damaged mast.
If there is still any question about the manufacturer and model of the mast, our Charleston Spar mast had that information inscribed at the base. Might be worth a look, if you have not done so already, given you have the mast down anyway. I was surprised to see that Forespar made masts at any point in time. Looking at Rig Rite, for example, they don't list Forespar as a mast manufacturer.
I also would suggest that you use your insurance company as your advocate in the claim process. You should not have to pay a deductible if they do not pay out a loss but their role should be to make sure that your boat gets fixed appropriately and that the other guy's insurance pays for it.
Interestingly my insurance company insured both boats. They have made it clear they will be looking to recoup costs from the marina (his insurance). Not really my concern, but the good thing is it's the other guy paying the deductible. Starting to get quotes back, mast and rigging is going to exceeds 20k by the time I get it here. Plus significant labour cost to finish standing rigging, deck step, wiring, lights, etc. Everthing needs to be triple checked and measured. If anything is wrong you can't really send it back. Dad time is & weeks plus shipping.
Has the insurance company indicated a max payout? I guess that if it's the Marina that's paying (via their insurance Co) then it could be the sky's the limit, otherwise might they just write off the boat?
Paul
We have replacement value insurance on all parts up to 100k. So if they want to write the boat off I will be happy to drive to their office and pick up the cheque. I would put the boat value around 85k (Canadian dollars). That's not what I really want because it's a great boat and I can't replace it with what I have on it for the 100k they would give me.
A complete mast(minus running rigging), spreaders, deck step. all standing rigging and boom is coming in around 18-22K. I need to speak with adjuster regarding boom because my old one is fine but compatibility wil be a problem. I have no interest in some special made mounts to make mine work. I suspect the yard cost will be another 4k to step and unstep mast, install lights, instruments, spin pole track, line clutches, cleats, boom bang, radar, antenna, etc etc.... It's amazing how much stuff is on the mast.
I predict 30k when it's done. If the adjuster gives me grief in the new boom I may offer up some labour to install all the external stuff on mast then it's where I want it and saves them a at least day of yard costs. The boom is 3k so I suspect between that and the cost o have any special mounts made we can work it out. With any luck I can get back the entire rig and take it to the scrap yard, I bet it's worth at least $500 in scrap.
Quote from: cmainprize on November 10, 2015, 03:55:36 PM
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I need to speak with adjuster regarding boom because my old one is fine but compatibility wil be a problem. I have no interest in some special made mounts to make mine work.
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If the adjuster gives me grief in the new boom I may offer up some labour to install all the external stuff on mast then it's where I want it and saves them a at least day of yard costs. The boom is 3k so I suspect between that and the cost o have any special mounts made we can work it out. With any luck I can get back the entire rig and take it to the scrap yard, I bet it's worth at least $500 in scrap.
Cory,
You may be aware that we have had discussions about the boom connection to the mast. It's in the Critical Upgrades sticky topic.
The information there may sway your adjuster to recognize that it's a good idea to get a new boom, simply & only because of that old design.
You're right, it may be less expensive in the analysis of the differencves between the two.
Good work and good luck.
Thanks so much for keeping us up to date.
Let me just say what a complete PITA that must be. Your poor boat is just sitting there, minding its own business. . . .
My sincere condolences on this really bad luck. You deserve at least a new boom for your pain, suffering and general inconvenience.
Wanted to update you on the mast replacement. After more inspection and part sourcing it appears the entire rig from the mast head to the deck step will be replaced including the boom, and standing ringing. It is not practical or cost effective to try and reuse some of the old with new. Because the new extrusion is slightly different then the old one it has created compatibility problems from top to bottom.
The new mast will be a complete sparcraft package including all the standing ringing left left long with mechanical end fittings that we can install once we step the new mast. Because the rigging attachment points, spreader size, mast step thickness, and backstay setup are all slightly different it will need to have the final work completed on the boat.
On the positive note it looks like the only parts that will be reused are my running rigging and wind instruments. Another Positve is we are able to set up the layout of everything exactly to my preference.
It looks like 4-6 weeks to get the rig and another week to assemble and rig. Total cost for labour, rig, shipping, and a bunch of little incidentals is 39K.
As we are looking to move into a larger Catalina the boat will be going up for sale when when its all boat back together! Lucky owner will have a great new setup.
New mast, boom and all rigging has arrived and is being is being assembled his week. I am open to thoughts or suggestions if anyone had ideas of how they would rig their mast if they could start from scratch.
We have already changed to dual backstay instead of the split. Added led lights under the spreader and all nav lights. All cleats will be upgraded clutches. All wire terminals are mechanical fittings.
Thanks in advance.
Why a dual backstay?
Hey Cory,
Good to hear that things are finally starting to fit into place. Hopefully you'll get launched sooner than later. Sounds like you've though much of the fittings out already.
I'm also curious about the double backstays, is this more of a have "spare" if one goes, kind of thing? If I remember correctly, I thought you also had another aft wire coming down to help supplement the support of the dingy davits and solar panel array, when in waves. With the two backstays, would you just attache a support wire from both of them?
One thing I wish I could sometimes do, is access the wire connections at the base of the mast and where they enter the deck. I'm sure its a structural issue to have an access port that you could unscrew and get to the wires. You know and save the whole de-mast and re-mast operation.
The dual vs split backstay was for a couple of reasons. I found the split stay was a pain when putting the mast up. I needed to use a halyard to pull mast back to get the threads to start on the aft turnbuckles. I wanted to move the stays as far out board as a could to avoid the bumping into them. The split only allowed for a short area for the backstay adjuster to move, vs a longer area for the dual stays. The splitting triangle added a bunch of fittings and pins that are not needed. The failure of the single stay was not really a concern. Yes Fred, I also support my davits with a lighter wire to the mast head. The mast head was still wrapped in packaging when I saw it last week so I need to figure that this week. Lots of little things will change with the new setup.
Cory, will you use the same attachment points and hardware on the stern for the dual back stays?
Last time I replaced the standing rigging, I was considering changing to the mkII type of split backstay, and Ron brought up a good point about the angle of the stay to the hardware attachment in the stern, that the connection would be at a different angle then what the mkI split backstay is designed for, potentially creating some stress on the connection. If you are not changing the hardware on the stern, will you also have an "out of line" connection? Any input from Catalina on making the change?
Regards,
Ed
The new mast and boom are finally done. Everything was changed from the mast step to the antenna including all standing rigging from cotter pin to cotter pin. A couple of small hiccups but everything is finally done. One shroud was too short, and the sail slugs had to be changed. The sail was finished last night and will be going up today with the first shake down and mast tuning over the weekend. The backstay was kept in the original configuration and not changed to the full dual setup, (they forgot) this may be for the best. The new setup looks great and I looking forward to seeing if the boat feels the same.
Finally got the sails up and all the little things back together and tested everything yesterday. Everything seems really good. Still a bit of mast running to do as I suspect the shrouds will stretch a touch after they a have a couple of good sails on them. The new system looks great and the boom and goose neck fitting is excellent design. The turnbuckles are the open design which is also a nice change from the covered ones from the factory and the sta lock fittings look very cool. The new style sails slides allow the mast to go up without even touching the winch and the sails drops like a stone when released. All in all it was a PIA but the rig is awesome and a great improvement to the boat. I am rarely impressed by a mechanic, but I can't say enough about James from Bayport. He was methodical and his workman ship is excellent. Thank you.