Catalina 34

General Activities => Main Message Board => Topic started by: Jon W on October 03, 2015, 08:56:38 PM

Title: Gummy Bears & Cockpit Panel Fastening Ideas
Post by: Jon W on October 03, 2015, 08:56:38 PM
I just finished the last of the critical upgrades which is the harness upgrade and adding a voltmeter to replace the ammeter. A while back someone was asking what everyone was referring to when they say "Gummy Bear". I've attached a couple of photo's of the Gummy Bears that I removed from my 1987 hull #493. The first two were at the engine, the third was at the cockpit control panel.

Also attached a photo of the fuel pump positive the goes to the control panel with it's original ring terminal. I posted this because the second day of doing the upgrade it literally fell off the crimp. Same thing happened with the blower motor positive. No tugging/pulling/rough handling. Just fell off. Might want to think about this.

The last photo is my control panel, engine running with a voltmeter! Still need to clean it up and reseal with bed-it butyl tape.

Hopefully all attachments show up.

Jon W.
Title: Re: Gummy Bears
Post by: KWKloeber on October 04, 2015, 01:17:00 AM
I just finished the last of the critical upgrades which is the harness upgrade and adding a voltmeter to replace the ammeter. A while back someone was asking what everyone was referring to when they say "Gummy Bear". I've attached a couple of photo's of the Gummy Bears that I removed from my 1987 hull #493. The first two were at the engine, the third was at the cockpit control panel.

Also attached a photo of the fuel pump positive the goes to the control panel with it's original ring terminal. I posted this because the second day of doing the upgrade it literally fell off the crimp. Same thing happened with the blower motor positive. No tugging/pulling/rough handling. Just fell off. Might want to think about this.

The last photo is my control panel, engine running with a voltmeter! Still need to clean it up and reseal with bed-it butyl tape.

Hopefully all attachments show up.

Jon W.

You're lucky Jon -- you caught it before the plugs melted and blew up.   Here's what they look at at their worst.  Well not the worst -- the worst is them lying at the bottom of the harbor in pile of burnt up fiberglass.


Anyone who still has these is flirting with an insurance claim!!

kk
Title: Re: Gummy Bears
Post by: Ron Hill on October 04, 2015, 11:18:07 AM
Jon W : You truly are lucky.  BTW, What took you so long??

Hard to believe that we've been harping on this critical upgrade since 1992 and there are still boats out there with the old trailer connector - ready to burn up!!

Mt thought
Title: Re: Gummy Bears
Post by: Jon W on October 04, 2015, 04:16:39 PM
Ron, I just bought the boat 5 1/2 months ago. I don't know why one of the PO's didn't do this critical wiring harness upgrade.

I also don't know why they didn't change the steering idler pins to SST, fix the leaking exhaust riser, change the gooseneck fitting to the one without the cotter pin, remove the fuel pick up strainer in the fuel tank, or the fix the fuel fill cap which had a broken 0-ring and cracked cap.

As of today all the critical upgrades I could find on this forum have been implemented or verified done on my new to me 1987, plus the items I listed in a June post. 5 1/2 months seemed like quick progress to me.

Jon W.
Title: Re: Gummy Bears
Post by: Noah on October 04, 2015, 05:36:19 PM
Congrats! Sounds like a lot of work in a short period of time to me! I am sure Ron's frustration is placed with a series of POs that haven't "taken care of bizness" over so many years...and left unsuspecting new owners with the consequences.
Title: Re: Gummy Bears
Post by: Ken Juul on October 05, 2015, 06:23:10 AM
I've been pitching the C34IA and message board for many years.  About half the folks I meet know about both and belong to one or both.  The other half just don't care or want to get involved with an on line thing.  You can lead a horse to water.....
Title: Re: Gummy Bears
Post by: Stu Jackson on October 05, 2015, 05:50:57 PM
added a link to here on the Critical Upgrades topic
Title: Re: Gummy Bears
Post by: tgsail1 on October 05, 2015, 11:30:35 PM
I would think twice about bedding the panel (even with butyl tape). There is a lexan rain shield there to protect it and you will likely need to get that panel off again.
Title: Re: Gummy Bears
Post by: Noah on October 06, 2015, 07:42:31 AM
I hear you Stu on issues with bedding cockpit engine instrument panel. First time I used standard messy "caulk" then had to remove panel for wiring access. Then I used butyl tape..and had to remove again for some BS. Annoying! But even with rain shield it still goes against my grain not to have some sort of seal. Next time I need to remove it, I am going to fabricate a rubber gasket for it.
Title: Re: Gummy Bears
Post by: KWKloeber on October 06, 2015, 08:27:00 AM
There's two things going on here -- I meant to chime in earlier. 

Bedding the panel TRAY and "bedding" the PANEL itself and the plexi RAIN SHIELD.  Oooops that's three things.  Sorry, CRS.

The tray was removed and may have to be removed again - rightfully at some time the stop cable and whatnot will be repaired/replaced so that the tray can be permanently affixed to the coming.  I would epoxy it in place once repaired, or possibly use 4200 to bed it.  Unfortunately, it appears that the PO drilled / bolted it in place so it looks like crap.  If affixed in place, I would run a tiny bead of 4000UV around the 3 sides (leave bottom side uncaulked  - like you do around house windows) and fill the holes with 4000UV or gelcoat paste and finish it off.

The PANEL - use EPDM (preferred) OR closed-cell-foam weatherstrip tape (home center) - no need to fabricate a gasket.
Ditto for the RAIN SHIELD - if desired.

Butyl isn't meant for removable panels, etc.


Cheers,
KK
Title: Re: Gummy Bears
Post by: Noah on October 06, 2015, 09:13:18 AM
I like the foam weatherstrip idea! Duh. :thumb: much easier.
Title: Re: Gummy Bears
Post by: KWKloeber on October 06, 2015, 10:06:24 AM
I like the foam weatherstrip idea! Duh. :thumb: much easier.

There's a thin EPDM tape that has like 3 ribs on it -- very flexible and compressible that I just used on a J/120 panel rain shield. 
HD or L or Ace or TV hardware should carry it.  I think Frost King, or MD products, or.... CRS.

k
Title: Re: Gummy Bears
Post by: Ron Hill on October 06, 2015, 04:56:36 PM
Jon : I've written this in many, many posts - here it is again.  To keep the rain, UV and weather off the engine instrument panel here's what I did :

I cut a piece of Lexan (poly carbonate) to the whole size of the instrument panel facing (not 3/4 as the factory did) with a notch for the fuel cut off.  I then cut 1 inch holes to get at all the switches etc. under that panel.  Then I put protective boots on the key switch, the starter switch and the blower motor - on the inside of that Lexan cover. 
I also made a sunbrella cover for the entire panel to protect it when the "boat's in port" and not in use!! 

A few thoughts
Title: Re: Gummy Bears
Post by: Jon W on October 06, 2015, 07:37:57 PM
Looks like I have caused some confusion by not being clear. My apologies. Thanks Ken for clarifying my intent. I meant to say re-bed the tray to the coaming with bed-it butyl tape.

On my boat, the tray has no back to it. See attached before photos of the back of the tray and panel with the old wiring. In the photo of the tach you can just make out that the positive wire is missing to the light. It had corroded and fell off sometime in its' life. Some screws holding the gauges and tach to the panel were also missing. Added them with the wiring change. All gauges, wiring, switches, etc. attached to the panel are exposed to any leak between the coaming and the tray. The tray had been sealed with some type of caulk. I had seen water leaking past the caulk onto the gauges, wiring, switches, etc.

When ready to re-install the tray, I removed all of the old caulk and decided to use butyl tape after all the endorsements of how well it seals. I may end up removing the tray again to replace something, but donít know when that will be and like the peace of mind knowing I have a top quality sealant.

The tray was screwed onto the coaming before I started. Not sure it looks like crap, but agree it would look nicer without the screws. Each corner of the tray has snaps for the protective sunbrella cover to attach to. Unfortunately the snaps are 3/8Ē long thread. Over the years they are no longer snug and can pull out so need to thread into the coaming with 1Ē long thread snaps. While waiting  for the 1Ē long snaps, Iíve used SST screws at each corner to ensure the tray is sealed.

I have a protective boot on the glo plug push button. Donít know what happened to the one on the start push button but am looking for one to put on.    Jon W.
Title: Re: Gummy Bears
Post by: KWKloeber on October 06, 2015, 08:22:39 PM
Jon,

Too bad the tray is back on -- the most secure way to apply snaps in that situation is to use the ones that have a machine screw thread (nut behind the tray edge).  It seems like the tapping screw ones will eventually strip out no matter what when driven into a relatively think substrate - like the tray or coming.  Ditto for the screws that hold the panel to the tray if they strip out.

I have several that pulled out of the (out)side of the coming that were from the dodger.  I had no way to get to the backside to use the machine-screw snaps, so I had to devise other means.

If you have thin material (like the tray, etc,) you can soak a piece of foam (foam ear plug works) in epoxy resin, stick it behind the tray edge, and voila' a new, thick substrate to screw into. 

If you can't get to the back side, you can drill as large a hole as possible that the fitting will just cover, stick an epoxy-soaked earplug (squeezed out dry) thru the hole -- leaving about a 1/4 of it outside.  Just when the epoxy kicks, slice it flush outside with a razor blade.  The inside expands and voila', forms a foam/epoxy "wall anchor" to screw into.

Another trick where the substrate is a void (like the coming) that you cant get behind -- fill it with expanding foam (carefully!)  When cured, rout out some of the foam (dremel bit, or wire, or bent nail through the hole w/ a drill) and fill the new void in the foam with thickened epoxy.  Voila' a new "strong point."

kk
Title: Re: Gummy Bears
Post by: Jon W on October 06, 2015, 08:35:29 PM
What a great idea. Never would have thought of using an earplug soaked in epoxy. For the machine screws do you use 5200 or something similar to bond the nut?  Jon W.
Title: Re: Gummy Bears
Post by: KWKloeber on October 06, 2015, 08:43:24 PM
What a great idea. Never would have thought of using an earplug soaked in epoxy. For the machine screws do you use 5200 or something similar to bond the nut?  Jon W.

Asketh about a problem, and ye shall receive.  Sometimes a lot more (conflicting) ideas than you ever want to wade thru.

Locktite is fine to lock the thread if you need to use a thin (jam) nut, or just use a nylock nut of you have enough depth!  Really no reason to hold affix the nut to the back of the substrate.

kk
Title: Re: Gummy Bears & Cockpit Panel Fastening Ideas
Post by: Noah on October 07, 2015, 09:49:12 AM
Jon, I don't believe anyone's cockpit engine instrument tray has a back on it. A bit after the fact for you...but FYI--I replaced my panel face and wiring harness without removing the tray. Just unscrewed panel face plate.
Title: Re: Gummy Bears & Cockpit Panel Fastening Ideas
Post by: Jon W on October 07, 2015, 02:03:04 PM
Hi Noah. I tried removing the panel only first, but had interferences with the shut-off cable post (tee handle removed), and the top of the tach hitting the tray. Reached through the aft lazarette to remove the nut on the back of the tray securing the shut-off cable to the tray. Couldnít get enough leverage or grip because the nut was both frozen and surrounded by caulk. Ultimately decided to remove the shutoff cable from the engine and pull the tray, panel, and shutoff cable out together (had leaks between the tray and coaming anyway). I mentioned the tray having no back because CD sells a fully enclosed replacement tray, and thought that might be the common set-up.

Jon W.
Title: Re: Gummy Bears & Cockpit Panel Fastening Ideas
Post by: Noah on October 07, 2015, 04:24:41 PM
Maybe some model years of the C34s have panels with backs? Not my 1990. BTW-- CD doesn't mention the 34s model in their replacement tray part description. It may work however.  I have found some discrepancy RE: parts descriptions in a few items on the CD site, such as shaft log/stuffing box hose sIzes, etc. so be careful and question them.  And, yes it does take a little tight maneuvering to remove the cockpit panel faceplate with gauges and engine shut off in place. That's why I don't want to have to do it AGAIN anytime soon.
Title: Re: Gummy Bears & Cockpit Panel Fastening Ideas
Post by: KWKloeber on October 07, 2015, 07:59:14 PM
Maybe some model years of the C34s have panels with backs? Not my 1990. BTW-- CD doesn't mention the 34s model in their replacement tray part description.

Just FYI for anyone needing a remodel -- you can get the panel tray right from the CTY factory, made to precise dimensions (there were like 3 or 4 different trays on the C30) thereby avoiding CD's mark up and stretching your few boat bucks (not that I have anything against CD making money, but...   :wink: )

Also on the weather panel, if you do a full panel you can do a round finger hole and a pivoting teardrop shape in the same material to cover the hole.  I just did one on a J-120 panel (no unfortunately don't have a pic.)

kk
Title: Re: Gummy Bears & Cockpit Panel Fastening Ideas
Post by: KWKloeber on October 14, 2015, 09:21:39 PM
Also attached a photo of the fuel pump positive the goes to the control panel with it's original ring terminal. I posted this because the second day of doing the upgrade it literally fell off the crimp. Same thing happened with the blower motor positive. No tugging/pulling/rough handling. Just fell off. Jon W.

Jon with all the wiring you did recently and the fallen off terminals on the pump and blower, you will appreciate this one.... 

Sunday I went to work on a J/104 "for an hour" -- adding a couple receptacles -- all I intended to do was finish up one.  After an hour of swearing I got the one line extended - off the galley receptacle.   Saturday a helper had pulled the GFIC receptacle out because we were originally going to jumper off that box, but it was feeding 2 circuits, so I went elsewhere (too many wires in the box and on the GFI terminals.) 

So I go to screw the GFI back in and see that the ground wires have a wad of electrical tape around them.  Uh ohh.  Do I run or do I dare unwrap it?  Whenever I see a wad of tape I know there's something I don't want to see.   

Under were the ground wires - 4 mind you - the feed from the panel, and to the two circuits, and one jumper to the receptacle.  All bared and twisted together -- wrapped w/ tape.  No terminal on the GFI screw, just twisted stranded wire.  No crimp sleeve or butts, or step downs --- nothing on the others, just twisted and taped.   :roll:

And THIS OEM WAS FROM THE FACTORY -- not a PO mod.  So Universal and CTY or J/World -- I guess you end up with no better quality, no matter how much you pay for it?

Cheers,
Ken
Title: Re: Gummy Bears & Cockpit Panel Fastening Ideas
Post by: Jon W on October 16, 2015, 06:55:22 PM
Hi Ken, Not an electrical, but a mechanical example. My slip neighbor has spent the last week plus fixing a Yanmar engine problem on his Tartan 37. Early 2000 vintage he purchased around 6-7 mopnths ago. He had to replace two fuel injectors ($$$) and a myriad of fittings ($$$) due to severe corrosion. Where did the corrosion come from? A failed anti siphon valve that ran above the engine inside the engine compartment. Apparently it had been leaking for years. He relocated it out of the engine compartment. I guess it isn't the brand, it's how you take care of it.
Jon W.