Boat is on the hard in the marina. I wanted to plug into a regular 115V outlet. I have a standard 15amp to 30amp adapter to fit the
boats ac "plug-in". When I plug it in, and with all new cords in excellent condition the GFI trips. Don't know why. Anyone out there
that may shed some light on what's going on? The boat's ac circuitry is in perfect condition and we used it all summer with no problems
when plugged in at the dock slips.
Thanks in advance, Larry
Quote from: Fuzzy on November 02, 2014, 01:24:46 PM
Boat is on the hard in the marina. I wanted to plug into a regular 115V outlet. I have a standard 15amp to 30amp adapter to fit the
boats ac "plug-in". When I plug it in, and with all new cords in excellent condition the GFI trips. Don't know why. Anyone out there
that may shed some light on what's going on? The boat's ac circuitry is in perfect condition and we used it all summer with no problems
when plugged in at the dock slips.
Thanks in advance, Larry
GFI trips when you plug in the 30-amp to 15-amp adapter, or when you plug into the shore power outlet?
Ken
Larry : You probably are using a (30a to 15a) adapter. Try plugging into a 30 amp receptacle - to checkout the adapter?
You can try plugging into another power outlet for boat power, but remember that GFIs (especially if made in China) can go bad!!
A thought
The GFI trips when I plug into the 120v outlet. It is not a regular shore power outlet but just a standard exterior outlet.
It takes a regular extension cord and not the heavy duty 30amp cord that you normally use when at a dock. That's why
the adapter to go from the regular 120v female plug at the end of the extension cord to the 30amp male recepticle on
the boat.
Larry
Ron:
I understand that GFI's can go bad and that they are temperamental but I did try 3 different ones. Previously I did the same
thing at home and that GFI did not trip.
Larry
Quote from: Fuzzy on November 02, 2014, 05:58:12 PM
The GFI trips when I plug into the 120v outlet. It is not a regular shore power outlet but just a standard exterior outlet.
It takes a regular extension cord and not the heavy duty 30amp cord that you normally use when at a dock. That's why
the adapter to go from the regular 120v female plug at the end of the extension cord to the 30amp male recepticle on
the boat.
Larry
Fuzzy,
From what you describe then, and that you have verified that the GFi is okay -- I would suspect there's an issue in the shore power.
Does whatever circuit the receptacle in on, have a GFI breaker?
Ken K
Buy one of those tester plugs that tells you if all the wiring is in the proper sequence. I think they are only around $5 or so and you can get them in the electrical section of any hardware store.
Quote from: chuck53 on November 02, 2014, 06:47:29 PM
Buy one of those tester plugs that tells you if all the wiring is in the proper sequence. I think they are only around $5 or so and you can get them in the electrical section of any hardware store.
Could be a false positive.
They only tell you if you have reversed polarity - which won't necessarily trip a GFI (unless you have a reversed neutral/ground.)
KK
Ken:
The GFI IS the shore power. It trips when I plug into the boat.
Fuzzy
Quote from: Fuzzy on November 03, 2014, 05:07:29 PM
Ken:
The GFI IS the shore power. It trips when I plug into the boat.
Fuzzy
Ohhhh Ok, I thought one of the GFis on the boat were tripping.
So it this the GFI breaker on the shore power circuit, or a separate GFI that you have plugged into the receptacle?
I'm confused here. Fill in the missing pieces.
Ken
Take a look at the extension cord that you are using between the shore outlet and the boat. You might have a short in the line or at either in the plugs. The GFIs can trip at the slightest current leak. Also, make sure your connection is dry.
Ken:
The outlet is a standard exterior outlet, not the outlet that you see on the dock to plug into. It's just a standard
115vac GFI outlet.
Larry
Fred:
The extension cord is brand new, I unwrapped it the day that I tried using it. Also I tried it direct to an electric heater and
it worked just fine plulgged in directly but when I tried to plug into the boat recepticle it would immediately pop the
ground fault. I'm confused.
Larry
Again, the GFI that is tripping -
Is it a breaker on the shore receptacle circuit?
Or a separate in-line plug-in GFI that is yours?
So you eliminated the extension cord.
Then the leakage is either the GFI (if it's the yard's breaker). Or if it's your GFI and you tested/verified it elsewhere -- the leakage at the boat inlet, or somewhere thereafter.
With the main breaker off, does she trip? If so, it's seems to be between the breaker and inlet.
Are there GFI breakers at the slips? If so, are they working/tested? How do you know?
Presuming there is GFI at the slip --
Not having "a problem" during the season -- doesn't necessarily mean that there wasn't some leakage -- it just means the breaker never blew.
It could be bad, or it could simply be less sensitive than the one that's popping now.
Ken K
Quote from: Fuzzy on November 04, 2014, 06:57:28 PM
Ken:
The outlet is a standard exterior outlet, not the outlet that you see on the dock to plug into. It's just a standard
115vac GFI outlet.
Larry
Larry,
OK I missed that prior post above.
So...... either the GFI receptacle is likely too sensitive, or you have leakage on the boat (does it pop with your main panel breaker off?)
Ken
Ken:
Yes, the GFI trips if or if not the main ac breaker is on or off.
The GFI did not trip when the extension cord was plugged directly into an electric heater.
Larry
Quote from: Fuzzy on November 05, 2014, 04:35:18 PM
Ken:
Yes, the GFI trips if or if not the main ac breaker is on or off.
The GFI did not trip when the extension cord was plugged directly into an electric heater.
Larry
Larry,
Ok, so it seems that the unidentified leakage is somewhere between the end of your extension cord, and the tail end of the main breaker, but not past the main breaker.
So what you need to do is start eliminating components in the chain, beginning with one end or the other (the easiest one.)
For instance,
Does she trip when you plug the adapter in (but not the adapter into the boat?) (bad adapter)
Might try a different adapter if you can borrow one, just to eliminate that being the issue.
Disconnect the inlet cable from the main breaker (with power disconnected! tape or wire nut the wire ends)
Disconnect the cable from the back of the inlet.
That way you just keep narrowing it down to one component that is bad.
Hopefully it IS ONE - it gets frustrating when there's multiple causes and it spins you in circles trying to narrow one down.
Update us!
Ken K
The GFI plug in our head started tripping for no apparent reason a couple months back. I replaced with a new one and it hasn't tripped since. Problem could be old equipment.
Ralph
Catalina's wiring solutions weren't always the best, nor logical (at least on my 1990). The aft cabin outlet was connected/protected by the GFI in the head but the outlet in the Galley was not protected at all!? I ended up installing new GFIs on ALL outlets. That way if the GFI ever trips I have a better idea of where the source of the cause might be.
On the Mark Is, the manual wiring diagram for the outlets was installed as shown. There are two wiring runs: 1) nav station to head; 2) V berth to galley to aft cabin. I put a GFCI in the head with an outdoor cover on it, and put the second GFCI in the V berth. Thus, the only non-GFCI is the nav station. I could have put a GFCI in the nav station, but that would have required a new teak cover on the receptacle, so I didn't.
Check the manual first, then check what's there in the field (on your boat).
Stu,
I eliminated 2 poorly located and added 10 receptacles to my 30. In the teak areas, I just trimmed out the center of the teak duplex covers to fit the rectangular GFI receptacles.
Ken.
Guys : If you check your owners manuals here's what I believe you'll find:
1986 +1987 C34s there are two circuits as Stu describes.
1988 and subsequent C34s there is one circuit with the GFI receptacle in the first outlet at the nav table!!
A thought
Resurrecting an older topic as I think my question may dovetail nicely with this discussion.
We have owned this boat but a year and I am still working through the wire issues left by the PO. This current issue has to do with the GFI not functioning. After replacing all the Romex the PO had installed when he added outlets on both sides and forward I had power at all these outlets. Next came the GFI that was not functioning. Upon pulling the GFI from it's box I found the feed wire attachment screw sheared in it's hole and all hot wires run to one load terminal. This explained why the GFI Was not working so I replaced the GFI with a new one.
Now as soon as I plug something into the starboard outlet leg and turn it on the GFI trips. The port side works properly so I figure the GFI is not at fault. With the starboard side hot and common wires disconnected from the GFI with only the ground still on, the GFI will trip when I touch either white or black to it's appropriate terminal.
I have checked all outlets with an outlet tester and they all test properly. I have also visually inspected the outlets and all looks right. The boat is connected to shore power on land via a GFI outlet and adapters to the 30A inlet on the stern.
Any thoughts are appreciated.
Quote from: dfloeter on March 23, 2015, 08:10:27 AM
#1
Now as soon as I plug something into the starboard outlet leg and turn it on the GFI trips.
#2
With the starboard side hot and common wires disconnected from the GFI with only the ground still on, the GFI will trip when I touch either white or black to it's appropriate terminal.
#1 and #2 appear to be at odds --
Does the gfci trip with all wires connected and no load applied (#2) , or only when there's a load applied (#1)?
Are you saying that you had the wires disconnected, a load applied downstream, and then touched the hot or neutral to the gfci -- and it trips?
I would first disconnect the port side downwire feed to remove it from the equation.
Then isolate the 1st downwire outlet (remove the downwire feed from #1 to #2) and see if gfci still trips. Work downstream as needed to see if you can find what's/location that's tripping it on the stbd side.
I wouldn't automatically rule out the gfci until you do a little more isolation.
You could also isolate the two sides (feed the stb side straight thru from the power-in side of the gfci, and install a gfci in 1st outlet on stbd) and see what develops?
Ken
The GFI tripped when all wires were connected to it properly and a load was applied to any of the starboard outlets. When I touched the wire to the GFI and it tripped there was no load on the circuit. Ken, I will do as you suggest and disconnect the port side from the GFI and reconnect the starboard. I will also back down the outlets and start disconnecting from the farthest out ending at the galley which was the only original outlet in the string with the micro wave. I will have to check the aft cabin for more outlets. Rereading your suggestions, do you mean to run a loose jumper from the GFI to the various outlets?
Could you have something connected to the starboard leg that is hard wired without a plug?
Mike
In the end I found a mystery wire (12-3 boat wire) leading forward from the starboard hanging locker up in the V-berth. When rewiring the outlets I installed a terminal block in the locker which is fed by a 12-3 running from the nav station GFI. The three outlets on starboard are then fed from this terminal block. After disconnecting the common (white) wire from this terminal block the problem has evaporated and all outlets test normal and the GFI functions as expected. Later today I will track down the end of the mystery wire.
What I have discovered is the lack of a GFI on the independently wired outlets in the galley and aft cabin. This is the original circuit off the breaker on the panel logically labeled outlets. I am presuming the breaker will not function as a GFI. Changing the galley receptacle to a GFI I think should cover both of those.
On to the next curious situation, whatever that may be. Thanks for the advice.
Quote from: dfloeter on March 24, 2015, 06:47:31 AM
In the end I found a mystery wire (12-3 boat wire) leading forward from the starboard hanging locker up in the V-berth. When rewiring the outlets I installed a terminal block in the locker which is fed by a 12-3 running from the nav station GFI. The three outlets on starboard are then fed from this terminal block. After disconnecting the common (white) wire from this terminal block the problem has evaporated and all outlets test normal and the GFI functions as expected. Later today I will track down the end of the mystery wire.
What I have discovered is the lack of a GFI on the independently wired outlets in the galley and aft cabin. This is the original circuit off the breaker on the panel logically labeled outlets. I am presuming the breaker will not function as a GFI. Changing the galley receptacle to a GFI I think should cover both of those.
On to the next curious situation, whatever that may be. Thanks for the advice.
I presume that are using a tester that not only checks polarity, but also w/ a button that tests the gfci?
Are you saying that the outlets fed by that terminal block tests normally with only the hot and ground connected? If so, something's amiss.
And to your earlier question and re: the aft unprotected outlets..
I'm probably telling you what you already know, but others' edification..... There's two ways you can feed from an installed gfci outlet --
The first is to wire it in parallel and simply loop onto the next outlet (this provides no gfci protection downstream.) To do this you would use the "line" terminals to continue downstream.
The other way is to wire it in series to provide protection downstream. For that you run from the "load" terminals to the next outlet. So what I was suggesting previously, was to power the apparently errant stbd outlets from the "line" side of the gfci, and then use another gfc as the next outlet downstream.
Ken
The testing I am using is a simple plug in showing polarity and any open wires without a switch to test a GFI. The thing is yellow with three less on the top where two yellows shows a good outlet.
My now protected outlets are wired off the GFI load terminals but initially were not. I will be doing as you suggest with the galley outlet and running the aft cabin outlet of the load side of that GFI.
Thanks again Ken. You will be receiving mail from me any day now.
Quote from: dfloeter on March 24, 2015, 07:56:41 AM
The testing I am using is a simple plug in showing polarity and any open wires without a switch to test a GFI. The thing is yellow with three less on the top where two yellows shows a good outlet.
My now protected outlets are wired off the GFI load terminals but initially were not. I will be doing as you suggest with the galley outlet and running the aft cabin outlet of the load side of that GFI.
Thanks again Ken. You will be receiving mail from me any day now.
My most recent tester has the gfci addition - a button that trips it (if the gfci is working properly). Maybe a buck or two more than the yellow ones.
I think I got it at Lowe's, though I also saw it later at Wally.
http://i5.walmartimages.com/dfw/dce07b8c-4cf3/k2-_5cd12b0e-3ff9-4302-af6c-f4dd6771ae34.v1.jpg
Good, I love mystery mail!
Cheers,
ken
Well, weirdness continues. The mystery wire crosses to port under the aft v berth edge and enters the liner inside the port locker at the top of the lower hanging area. After that I have no idea where the wire goes. It must up behind the wood slat wall but access is a bit tough. I then do not find a corresponding wire entering the nav area. My best option is to leave the wire disconnected and wait until something as yet unknown does not function.