Catalina 34

General Activities => Main Message Board => Topic started by: KWKloeber on October 01, 2014, 06:03:47 PM

Title: Is the M-25XPB Glow Plug Solenoid Continuous-duty?
Post by: KWKloeber on October 01, 2014, 06:03:47 PM
M35 Fuel Bleeding - Fuel Pump Tied into Glow Plug & Oil Pressure


Update:  In December 2011, Ray Irvine reported: "Also the solenoid that is used for the glow plugs is a low duty cycle version - the duty cycle is limited by the hold coil.  This means that if you hold the glow plugs on for too long - like get distracted with conversation etc - you can burn out the hold coil.   I am about to replace mine with a continuous duty cycle solenoid - for $10.00 more dollars."

Are we talking above about the same solenoid that's on the M-25XPB for glow plug/fuel pump?

If so, what source, part number, or mfgr, etc.,  matches up with the # of terminals and the solenoid mount holes?

Thanks much,

Ken K
Title: Re: Is the M-25XPB Glow Plug Solenoid Continuous-duty?
Post by: Ron Hill on October 02, 2014, 02:18:33 PM
Ken : Stu's post might not be good instruction to change out the solenoid.

On page 21 of the M25XPB and M35BC engine manual the is a WARNING Do not keep the glow plugs engaged for more that 30 seconds!!

It's not the same glow plug as in the M25 and M25XP engines!!  You shouldn't need more that 10 seconds engagement anyway!!!

That was one of the reasons I wired the new M25XPB engine to the boat rather than change the boat wiring to the engine.  I still used the "old" lift pump which ran as long as the key switch was ON.

A thought
Title: Re: Is the M-25XPB Glow Plug Solenoid Continuous-duty?
Post by: KWKloeber on October 02, 2014, 02:45:48 PM
Ken : Stu's post might not be good instruction to change out the solenoid.

On page 21 of the M25XPB and M35BC engine manual the is a WARNING Do not keep the glow plugs engaged for more that 30 seconds!!

It's not the same glow plug as in the M25 and M25XP engines!!  You shouldn't need more that 10 seconds engagement anyway!!!

That was one of the reasons I wired the new M25XPB engine to the boat rather than change the boat wiring to the engine.  I still used the "old" lift pump which ran as long as the key switch was ON.

A thought

Hmmmm... do I detect a Stu/Ron disagreement on the switch out of the switch?!  Ron prefers a sacrificial solenoid to save the plugs.  :rolling

The M25 plugs shouldn't be energized for very long either - they're 10 volt.
It was for someone else anyway - I will probably recommend he not bother doing it anyway, considering the time element on the heating elements.

Thanks for the head's up,
Ken
Title: Re: Is the M-25XPB Glow Plug Solenoid Continuous-duty?
Post by: Ron Hill on October 02, 2014, 03:12:41 PM
Ken : If you remember the Universal (Oshkosh)engine instructions were to engage the glow plugs for at least 30-45 seconds.

BTW, I never disagree with Stu on electrical, I may do it a different way, but never disagree!  :thumb:

A thought
Title: Re: Is the M-25XPB Glow Plug Solenoid Continuous-duty?
Post by: Stu Jackson on October 02, 2014, 04:28:22 PM
You guys ought to go back and read what you linked.  I did NOT write it.  And ray has an M35 engine.
Title: Re: Is the M-25XPB Glow Plug Solenoid Continuous-duty?
Post by: Ron Hill on October 03, 2014, 01:44:35 PM
Stu :  My post above  --   On page 21 of the M25XPB and M35BC engine manual there is a
WARNING  Do not keep the glow plugs engaged for more that 30 seconds!!


You might want to reconsider Ray's post in Critical Updates!!

A thought
Title: Re: Is the M-25XPB Glow Plug Solenoid Continuous-duty?
Post by: Stu Jackson on October 03, 2014, 02:55:56 PM
I'm confused.  What needs to be changed?  Ray simply said, under an M35 engine topic, that he is replacing his glow plug solenoid to a continuous duty one.  Nobody said anything about "hold" times, for which prudent skippers should refer to their engine manuals.  RTFM.   :clap

I installed a glow plug solenoid on on our M25.  Went from 30 seconds to 12 seconds.

Newer engines with solenoids should do the same.  In fact any engines with solenoids should, right?

Title: Re: Is the M-25XPB Glow Plug Solenoid Continuous-duty?
Post by: sailaway on October 03, 2014, 03:04:32 PM
continuous duty means it will run 23 hrs out of 24hrs just a better grade of solenoid. Not needed but will last longer. With a solenoid you should need less time . I am up to 45 count with the old button style. Charlie
Title: Re: Is the M-25XPB Glow Plug Solenoid Continuous-duty?
Post by: KWKloeber on October 03, 2014, 03:13:11 PM
You guys ought to go back and read what you linked.  I did NOT write it.  And ray has an M35 engine.

Stu,

A thousand pardooooons !  :oops:
I see that you didn't write it (well actually did write exactly what I quoted  :?: just not the original post about the switch out.)

This means that if you hold the glow plugs on for too long - like get distracted with conversation etc - you can burn out the hold coil.   I am about to replace mine with a continuous duty cycle solenoid - for $10.00 more dollars."


I mean, if the issue is holding the GP on for 30 or 45 or whatever seconds isn't going to burn out a non-CD solenoid, then why change it? 
If it is going to burn it out, AND it will also burn out the plugs, then the whole topic / fix/ mod / whatever doesn't make sense anyway.

Being the reference was in your post, I naturally just ASS/u/med  :oops:  that because your posts are always thoughtful and insightful it was an OK thing to do.  :think

No matter, he's not making the switch out anyway!

Thanks,
Ken
Title: Re: Is the M-25XPB Glow Plug Solenoid Continuous-duty?
Post by: Stu Jackson on October 03, 2014, 05:03:48 PM
Thanks, Ken.  In retrospect, if you read the links, what Ray was warning about was, as you said, making a MISTAKE by holding it too long.  His concern was that it could burn out the non-continuous solenoid.  Of course, it could well ALSO harm the glow plugs.  It kinda makes sense:  instead of just four glow plugs to replace, he'd have to replace a solenoid, too.   :cry4`

Lesson Learned:  Don't hold your glow plugs on too long, as Ken said, they're made for a lower than [nominal 12V] voltage.  Whether you have a solenoid or not.  Maine Sail has written about this issue, and it was the subject of an earlier discussion on this forum.  If I find the link, I'll post it.
Title: Re: Is the M-25XPB Glow Plug Solenoid Continuous-duty?
Post by: Ron Hill on October 04, 2014, 01:34:52 PM
All : If Ray wants to change out his solenoid out - let him have at it!!

I just don't think it is worthy of being listed in CRITICAL UPDATEs - especially with out the reminder of what the Engine Manual WARNING says is something different!?!
 
But, then that's why they have Horse Races!

My thought  :?
Title: Re: Is the M-25XPB Glow Plug Solenoid Continuous-duty?
Post by: Stu Jackson on October 06, 2014, 09:00:32 AM

I just don't think it is worthy of being listed in CRITICAL UPDATEs - especially with out the reminder of what the Engine Manual is WARNING!!


The Critical Upgrades thread has been modified:

In this thread: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,8245.0.html (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,8245.0.html), there was an IMPORTANT REMINDER: DON'T hold your glow plugs ON for longer than the ENGINE MANUAL states.