Hi All,
I did a quick search, but did not found much on winterizing our engine ( 25xp ).
Unfortunately, some of us, living in the north need to houl out and put our boat in 'hibernation'.
Is there something special to do, exept remove water from heat exchanger ?
I was going to put the inlet water pump hose into a bucket with plumbing anti-freeze, and have it run thru the system.
And remove the impeller from the pump, so it won't dry in the shape.
Any ideas welcome.
And a oil change too.
Oil change is good to do first - should always be done with a warm engine.
Once out of the water, then do pretty much as you suggest. I take off the water inlet hose from the thru hull, add a three foot length of hose (with an elbow fitting, clamped) and put the end into a large container of non-toxic plumbing antifreeze. Turn on the engine and run it until the exhaust water is dark pink (no more water diluting it). Turn it off and you are done. Make sure that any water runs out of the thru hull before closing it and reinstalling the inlet hose. Removing the impeller for storage has been recommended many times.
Then of course there is the emptying of all the water tanks, and making sure the batteries are fully charged before disconnecting them etc.
Tony
Here in San Diego winterizing consists of topping up the frige with beer and go sailing. It's tough but some one has to do it.
Ralph
We find that two gallons of antifreeze does it for getting the water out of the engine and the muffler. We splurge on the -100 antifreeze for the cold winters here in Wisconsin. The residual water in the engine dilutes the antifreeze so I figure better safe than sorry. Peace of mind on a cold winter night is priceless.
We change the oil twice and then replace the oil filter. We also replace the Racor and engine fuel filters. We top off the transmission fluid and leave it completely full over the winter. We pull the impeller at the end of the process.
We empty the water tanks and the water heater and then run antifreeze through the water system, both hot and cold. After getting a pump-out, we run antifreeze through the head and into the waste tank.
We top off the diesel and then put in Stabil for storage.
We take off our batteries and store them at home. Finally, all soft goods like cushions or anything that could get mildew comes home.
Good luck!
Quote from: patrice on October 04, 2012, 01:27:00 PM
Hi All,
I did a quick search, but...
And a oil change too.
In addition to the Board, don't forget the wiki (engine section) --- only a simple click at the top of this page. And the Tech Notes Online.
And on my boat, have to winterize the heat pump system (HVAC) and the shower sump and pump.
Hi all,
Thanks for your replies.
Stu, I did look at wiki. But no info on engine winterizing.
It might be good idea to add these replies to start a section on this topic.
The Universal engine manual has some guidance on winter storage.
Patrice : There have been numerious articles written on winterization.
There is the engine, head, holding tank, water tanks, water heater, shower sump, fridge drain, water pump and the connecting lines.
You can blow out most with a wet/dry shop vac. On dry land don't forget to take the fuse out of the bilge pump wire.
On the engine if you use 1 gallon (-60) is enough to take care of the engine HX and muffler. To be sure then drain the HX and change out the Zn right away. Beside taking out the impeller, I also take the tension off of the drive belt and clean the intake air cleaner.
A few thoughts
Quote from: patrice on October 04, 2012, 04:01:36 PM
Hi all,
Thanks for your replies.
Stu, I did look at wiki. But no info on engine winterizing.
It might be good idea to add these replies to start a section on this topic.
Patrice,
Under Maintenance: http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Winterization_Tips (http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Winterization_Tips)
and
http://www.c34.org/faq-pages/faq-winterization.html (http://www.c34.org/faq-pages/faq-winterization.html)
I'm glad that we don't have to go through that process here in San Diego. On the other hand I can see where it would sometimes be nice to have the boat on the hard to really tear into some projects over the winter.
Mainsail had posted a thread about winterizing a boat in the Catalina Owners forum. And as most things from MS, his thoroughness is impeccable. Although not specific to the 25XP (engine winterizing is covered) he goes into detail about several other things to check and winterize before laying up.
I'll be thinking of you through the winter while we endure our boring same old weather everyday in San Diego. (74 and sunny) :sleepy: 8) :abd:
Boat Interior & Electronics:
*Remove most electronics and store indoors
*Remove all cushions and store in barn
*Remove all canvas, wash, treat and store in barn
*Remove solar panel
*Remove sails and drop at sail maker for winter cleaning/inspection
*Clean bilges
*Clean all stainless with Spotless Stainless
*Remove all food and "freezable" items
*Clean ice box with bleach and leave stored open for air circulation
*Change battery in solar vent
*Cinch all block and tackle assemblies such as main sheet and vang
*Remove speed or speed/depth insert and clean/lube o-rings
Head & Holding Tank
*Clean head, lube pump and winterize by sucking in PG
*Drain holding tank (while still in water) and fill with bleach & water let sit for a week and get pumped out or hit 3NM and macerate overboard.
*Thoroughly drain holding tank
*Remove drain plugs on seacocks and drain valve body
*Leave seacocks open on hard
Fresh Water System
*Drain both tanks entirely then wipe dry via clean out port
*Drain water heater and blow out with compressor
*By-pass water heater
*Remove fresh water system filter
*Remove faucet mounted Brita filter
*Suck in -50 PG into fresh water system HOSES ONLY open faucets one at a time to get AF at tap.
Engine:
*Change oil & filter
*Change oil only (second time to get fully clean)
*Change gear box fluid
*Drain & fill/change engine AF (every two years)
*Test freeze point of engine ethylene glycol (every year)
*Change HX zinc
*Change both primary and secondary fuel filters
*Change fuel polishing system filter
*Drain fuel tank and burn in homes heating system
*Change zinc in Sea Frost HX
*Clean intake strainer
*Flush RW circuit by SUCKING fresh water through it
*AF raw water side of system
*Remove impeller and prep cover plate and gasket surfaces for spring
*Remove air cleaner and seal off intake with plastic
*Remove exhaust hose and seal outlet with plastic
*Remove glow plugs and spray fogging oil into cylinders
Boat:
Wash hull
Remove any waterline staining
Wax hull
Cover boat
Pressure wash bottom and clean out thru-hulls
Battery Bank:
*Charge banks to full
*Check electrolyte level
*Check cell balance via specific gravity (after 24 hour rest)
*If low fill and recharge or equalize
*Re-check cell balance (if out of balance before equalize)
*Test batteries with Midtrionics and Argus analyzers, record test specs
*100% Disconnect battery bank from boat (neg leads)
*Leave batteries on-board to take advantage of cold temps on bank longevity
*Top up with charger once or bi-monthly through out winter
That's a good list from Maine Sail, but
--- you need to completely fill the transmission with fluid, then in the spring time remove enough to the basic correct fill level
--- you do NOT need to nor you should remove the glow plugs
--- don't see a need to remove the exhaust hose either
Follow the stuff provided in the links I gave you.
Good luck.
FYI, I know some people drain and then bypass their water heater. The manual for the Seaward water heater recommends running antifreeze through the water heater. I believe their thinking is that you can never get all the water out through draining so better to run antifreeze through to avoid expansion from freezing.
Why does the trans need to be completly filled?
I have two summer only cars that I do not completly fill.
I have a large lawn tractor that needs no such thing.
I don't get it?
Quote from: lazybone on October 05, 2012, 03:10:00 PM
Why does the trans need to be completly filled?
I have two summer only cars that I do not completly fill.
I have a large lawn tractor that needs no such thing.
I don't get it?
Because the Manual says to do it?
It's to keep the seals lubed when the transmission isn't used for long periods of time.
So every application with seals (all transmissions) needs to be completly filled for storage?
How about the engine crank seals?
I winterize while still in the water, whether I haul for the winter or not. I only haul every other year. The easiest way for me, close the thru hull, open up the sea strainer, have wife start the engine while I pour AF into the strainer. 2 gallons and I yell to wife to kill the engine. Done.
From the questions, it seems like a bunch of us need to read our boat, engine and transmission manuals.
Some of the first posts on our web site in the early 1990 were detailed descriptions of how to winterize. They can be found on the old FAQs and Projects.
Of course you can't fill or need to fill all of the engine crank seals, but Mr Hurth says his transmission should be filled. The seals inside can dry out and the parts inside can corrode with out the oil being splashed on them by running.
What you do for the first start in the spring is to crank the engine over until the oil pressure alarm stops saying it has oil pressure (with the engine fuel cut off pulled and the raw water thru hull off). No since in starting an engine that has no lube in the upper part!!
A few thoughts
Does fuel line need to be bled after fuel and racor filter is replaced and if so how?
Quote from: Stu Jackson on October 05, 2012, 03:37:18 PM
Quote from: lazybone on October 05, 2012, 03:10:00 PM
Why does the trans need to be completly filled?
I have two summer only cars that I do not completly fill.
I have a large lawn tractor that needs no such thing.
I don't get it?
Because the Manual says to do it?
It's to keep the seals lubed when the transmission isn't used for long periods of time.
Also because when the gear boxes are used and "splash lubed" the parts inside the box stay coated and don't corrode or rust or oxidize due to the film of fluid on them. When not in use for long periods the film dissipates off the metals and rust and corrosion can form. When you lay them up for winter and fill them to the rim they won't corrode. These boxes are vented to the atmosphere.
This is the same exact reason you really don't want to leave your wet exhaust hose connected to the engine over the winter. There is moisture in the exhaust that will want to "evaporate" & condensate into the open valves and into the engine cylinder. By sealing the engine off, when warm from winterizing, changing oil etc. you prevent the exhaust system moisture from entering the engine block.
This little step takes about 3-4 minutes... Just because most boat yards don't take the time to do a "complete" engine winterizing does not mean DIY's have to repeat their short comings....
Quote from: Stu Jackson on October 05, 2012, 09:24:00 AM
That's a good list from Maine Sail, but
--- you do NOT need to nor you should remove the glow plugs
--- don't see a need to remove the exhaust hose either
Stu,
Move to an area where it drops to -20f in the winter then we'll talk about fogging the engine and removing the wet exhaust hose. :thumb:These engines are EXPENSIVE. Doing the above two items will ensure your engine is in good shape come spring. You can spray fogging oil into the intake while turning by hand but the glow plug hole coats the cylinder walls easier. It also ensures that your glow plug connections are good and clean.. Alternatively you can crank your engine over every few weeks with the stop lever pulled to push oil but the fogging oil works well..
Also the suggestion above that 1 gal of PG is enough for an engine can be VERY DANGEROUS.. PG should NOT be diluted. The flow in the HX, strainer etc. is not straight displacement. It mixes due to flow and does not just push out what was in there. This causes dilution of the PG thus requiring more of it. This is why it can take as much as 5 gallons to properly protect an engine for -30F which is what I aim for as a bare min in Maine.
I have measured an M-25 after four gallons and still the burst point was too high for Maine. I use a sight refractometer to check the dilution of the PG..I've seen far to many engines freeze or HX's busted open all due to diluted PG. This spring I did one HX and one strainer due to dilution and last winter was a warm one. I thin the coldest we hit was -7... If you only want to suck 1 gal please be sure to then drain the RWP, HX and strainer after doing so....
I just did a Perkins 4-154 last week that took six gallons before the concentration was not dangerously diluted for our winter temps.
Thanks, Maine Sail, for that very important correction. I have lived in an environment where I have not had to winterize our engine, and should not have offered that incorrect advice.
Quote from: Stu Jackson on October 22, 2012, 04:54:51 AM
Thanks, Maine Sail, for that very important correction. I have lived in an environment where I have not had to winterize our engine, and should not have offered that incorrect advice.
Not necessarily incorrect at all. I just offer some steps that most yards & DIY's don't do that
can be rather good/better for the engine..
Trying to get the engine winterized but can't get the engine to start. Plan to get into it more this weekend when I have more time. If for some reason I can't get the engine started to draw in the antifreeze, is there a manual way I can pour the antifreeze into the engine or can the water be drained from the engine?
mre : If you can't get the engine started you can do the following:
1. drain the HX by removing the Zn.
2. drain the muffler by the petcock
3. drain the raw water pump by removing the impeller
4 and let the output RW pump hose drain
Thanks Ron. If I disconnect the raw water intake and stick the hose in the antifreeze and try to turn over the engine, will trying to turn over the engine suck the antifreeze into it?
No... But....
Remove the impeller, replace the cover plate
Disconnect the RW injection hose from the exhaust elbow
Stick this exhaust elbow injection hose in a 5 gal bucket
Connect RW intake hose to a 12V pump
Stick RW intake into bucket of PG AF
Turn on 12V pump
Drain water lift muffler...
Make sure your engine stop lever is not pulled??? Engine should start...