Returning from a multi-week cruise on the Bras D'Or Lakes in Nova Scotia, we struck unmarked rocks entering a cove, at 5 knots, stopping the boat dead in our tracks. I was able to power off the rocks, but sustained some minor keel damage, and a bent rudder stock. the rudder is badly chewed up on the leading edge, and was jammed into the skeg making steering difficult crossing the "center" position. I am pursuing a replacement rudder, and wondered if anyone on the forum has had recent experience with issues of fit, etc, of a new replacement on an older mark I boat. Also whether the new eliptical shape can be fashioned by Catalina too fit the 1986, fin keel model. Feedback re member's experiences as always is much appreciated, although I will obviously have to speak with Catalina Yachts for current price information.
Cheers,
Barry White
S/V Endorfin
Barry,
A simple call to Catalina Yachts can give you that answer. The nice thing about our boats is the manufacturer is still in business and can help out with things like this.
Barry : As Roc said call Catalina and they will make you a new eliptical rudder for your 1982 MK I with a fin keel. Not too sure on the manufacturing time, but it shouldn't be too long (couple of weeks?).
Installing the new rudder is NOT "a piece of cake".
A few thoughts
Sorry to hear about the damage to your boat - that is no fun at all.
We purchased a replacement rudder for our wing keel 1989 boat this past March. We ordered on March 22 and it was shipped on April 18. It took about a week to get here. It took a little longer than originally expected because of a number of similar orders in the spring busy season. Cost was $2518 plus shipping, total of approximately $2750.
Perhaps not surprisingly, the rudder will come bare fiberglass - no barrier coat or antifouling paint. Also, keep in mind that you will most likely need a professional to cut the rudder stock to size and to drill the holes for the quadrant. The rudder stock is double walled, much thicker than the original, and most non-professionals are not going to have the tools to do the necessary work or to do it the right way. You'll be surprised when you see the difference from the old rudder.
We had to have our tiller cap cut down because the hole drilled in the top of the rudder stock was half an inch too low but that is something that could be avoided with proper measurement. We're also going to have to do some modest reshaping of the rudder skeg next spring because it was a bit of a tight fit and there is a little rubbing when the rudder is turned all the way to port or starboard.
The good news is that the elliptical rudder shape is a much more effective foil. I would say it has at least 20 percent more surface area, all on the trailing edge. We used to round up quite easily in heavy air but find that we can control the boat much better now.
Good luck and let me know I can answer any questions.
I too have damage to my rudder and I am planning on having a local yard fabricate a new one. Is there anyone that can give me an idea of what I should have them do to make it more like the newer elliptical design. They will have the old one from my '88 to use as a template. Thanks.....
Let us know what it will cost to fabricate a new rudder. It will be a good comparison to the price of a new rudder.
http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Rudder
Includes Ron's write up showing how he built up his old rudder to the new shape.
Barry,
Back in '05 I replaced the rudder on my 1986 #219 with the new elptical style, cost was $1,287 pt#10787, new tiller cap pt# 324231 cost $60.50, and freight to Ma. was $106-. I had to find a machine shop to cut the shaft to size and drill both holes for the quadrent and tiller cap,obviously bring the old one with you, can't remember how much was cost, but let a pro do this for you, everything must line up correctly. Call Catalina parts to order, no big deal. The performance from this new rudder is amazing, turn on a dime. You have to pick the boat up to drop the old rudder, and to install, the boat yard lifted and tilted the boat. Once in, install the tiller cap, then attach the steering quad. I changed the quad. and the cables at the same time. Now I have a completely new steering system. Good luck.
Jeff
Jeff Tancock,
Do you have a fin or a wing keel? The rudders are very different...
I researched replacing the rudder on my 1986 when I hauled out this past Feb and decided on going with Foss Foam in Orange County. They already have a rudder for the Catalina 34 and 36 designed by Alan Andrews. The rudder cost $1800 and takes about two weeks to complete. They told me that I should haul the boat out after they call to say it is ready to pick up (not very heavy and will fit in a SUV) and bring the old rudder to them so that they can cut it to size as part of the price. I asked if they could make the rudder six inches deeper and they said they could modify the length included in the same price. Contact is Don Proul 949-646-0244 for a copy of the rudder plan. For those of you in Southern California Foss is a good alternative to the Catalina rudder and you can avoid the delivery charge. By the way, I put off the new rudder in favor of new electronics.
Gary
Gary : You didn't mention whether you had a wing or a fin keel.
If you have a wing DO NOT add 6 inches to the depth as it will be the first thing that hits the bottom.
If you have a fin and you look in the old Tech Notes Nov 1998; you'll see that the new elliptical rudder design was also lengthen by 7 inches for that fin keel rudder. The surface area of the fin rudder was also increased. I printed a picture the old and new rudders superimposed on each other.
There is the same rudder comparison picture of the wing keel rudders in the May 1999 Tech Note issue.
There's a lot of GREAT information in those old Mainsheet tech Notes - but you have to read it!!
A few thoughts
Ron -
I have a fin keel and I had copies of the rudder plans from Catalina (old rudder, new rudder, and both superimposed together) when I called Foss and that is why I asked if they could extend their rudder as the Alan Andrews rudder (52") is only 1" deeper than my old rudder (51") and 6" shorter than the new Catalina rudder (58"). I also felt that the Andrews rudder probably had a better shape as he is well known for his racing designs and has designed replacement rudders for a lot of race boats.
Gary
Gary : All that I was trying to point out to the readers is that there are Catalina specs. printed for the new elliptical and old rudder designs for the fin and wing keel C34s.
Anyone can change their rudder, just as some of us have done with our wing keel rudders to make them into the newer elliptical design. I did that probably 8 years ago and it stopped the boat from uncontrollably heading up into a 18kt & + wind.
The old 1988 wing rudder just didn't have enough surface area to do the job.
Ted......I have a fin keel. Where do I find the printed specs for the new design?
Jeff : If you'll relook at reply #10 you'll see that I said the picture with the specs is printed in the Nov 1989 Mainsheet Tech Notes!!
Barry--You may also try your Catalina dealer for advice on a new rudder. In my case I ordered through them and they were able to arrange shipping with a new boat from the factory for no shipping fee.
Quote from: Jeff Tancock on September 04, 2012, 07:07:21 AM
Ted......I have a fin keel. Where do I find the printed specs for the new design?
Talk to Gary (see a couple of posts up). He says he has the plans. Or you could call Catalina. They're usually helpful.
As always, I appreciate the observations, suggestions, and insights, especially the solution specific responses that were provided by many contributers.
Still waiting to hear from insurance regarding replacement.
Cheers,
Barry
Here are the copies of the Catalina and Foss replacement rudders superimposed over the old rudder.
Gary
Gary : I'm sure that Foss knows what they are doing, but I've read a number of articles that put some merit to the elliptical rudder design.
The articles that I'm talking about are of wing tip designs of the B17, P39, P40 (elliptical) and the P51 (square).
Interesting, but I'm not in that league with the knowledge to enter that argument!!
Just pointing that out!! Maybe Gerry Douglas just might know what he was doing!?! A thought
Ron -
The Foss rudder is an elliptical rudder that was designed by Alan Andrews, who has designed a long list of highly successful racing boats on the West coast over the last 30 years from 30 to 80 feet.
I replaced the rudder on my '86 a few years back... the key thing as mentioned is to take the quadrant with you to the local machine shop so they can get the drilling right.... I took the old rudder to use as a template the first go round, which they said would work. It didn't ... the holes were off, had to go back with the quadrant to refill and redrill. New rudder from Catalina as I recall was app $1200 and the shipping was no biggie... I would check with them before having a local yard fabricate something. The new rudder is much more efficient...
As the saying goes, "the Devil is in the details". I note that the new Catalina supplied rudder stock has an O.D. of 2.860"; my measurement of the original rudder stock on Endorfin (1986, C-34 Fin Keel Tall Mast), is 2.75" O.D., (tape measure, not by calipher). I have not seen a reference to difficulties encountered with this discrepancy in the stock OD. The tube that the stock must slide through is fiberglass, so is there sufficient "play" in the tube to accommodate this difference? Or are installers simply reaming out the tube to fit? I'd like to anticipate and deal with the problem in advance if need be. Any observations from those who have gone through the process? Please let me know.
Cheers,
Barry White
S/V Endorfin