Well, other than cleaning and little piddly stuff, I got into some of the meat on the new boat today-I put a new exhaust hose in. The old one was pretty cracked-wouldn't be surprised if it was original, but there was a dip at the rear in the lazarette that I don't think woulda come out of the factory. At any rate, I bought 19' from Catalina Direct (they've been awesome-I asked someone to call to confirm it would ship the day I ordered-they did!) just to be safe. The threads I'd read said it took 17'. I had about 30" left over, so the 17' is a safe bet in my opinion.
The old hose was very stiff and formed in the shape it was in, making removal a stubborn task. I got smart pretty quick and cut it in three pieces-made removal pretty simple-EXCEPT getting it off the through hull at the stern. I played tug-of-war on that for at least 30 minutes-ended up rotating the short 4' piece (after cutting) while pulling. Sprayed some Silicone spray down the hose for good measure-finally started to pull off.
I found out a 6'2"/200lb man can indeed get entirely into the Port cockpit locker to affix the new hose with zip ties and pull old hose out the hole going forward. :clap
We're getting ready to do a haul out, and the yard gets to do our exhaust hose. I took one look at that thing and said, nope, not going to do it.
Ralph
Ciao Bella
Guys : If you read the Nov 2010 Mainsheet tech notes, you'll see my article (w/pictures) on changing out the exhaust hose.
As I recommend this is an easy 1hour job for 2 people, not too sure I'd tackle it by myself. The 1 hour didn't include the time it took to clean out the port side and aft lazerettes and port side aft cabin panel - so we could get at everything.
I'd still recommend that you look at Defender for the hose as Catalina Direct is too rich for me, especially on the east coast for shipping.
FYI, I ordered 17 feet and we cut off about 6 inches to make the final connection to the thru hull in the stern.
A few thoughts.
Well, the math on the length seems to work out with mine. I went to Cat Direct as I omitted to order the hose last week, and we're only 2 days shipment out of Sacto. Still about $3/ft cheaper than WM.
The math works out on the labor too-double it for one person, and take the easy out of the equation, but actually not so bad. Cutting the old hose up helped deal with the dirty part in short order. I'm doing some of this stuff just to get the opportunity to crawl around the boat and check stuff out.
Quote from: Ron Hill on January 15, 2012, 02:31:08 PM
Guys : If you read the Nov 2010 Mainsheet tech notes, you'll see my article (w/pictures) on changing out the exhaust hose.
As I recommend this is an easy 1hour job for 2 people, not too sure I'd tackle it by myself. The 1 hour didn't include the time it took to clean out the port side and aft lazerettes and port side aft cabin panel - so we could get at everything.
I'd still recommend that you look at Defender for the hose as Catalina Direct is too rich for me, especially on the east coast for shipping.
FYI, I ordered 17 feet and we cut off about 6 inches to make the final connection to the thru hull in the stern.
A few thoughts.
Exactly as I have discovered the last several years with my '88' there is just no better way to get intimately acquainted with all the myriad intricacies of this good 'ol boat than to crawl around in the bilges and every nook and cranny getting up close and personal. If something breaks 'out there' I want to have at least an inkling of what just happened and what am I going to do to make it work again, if only long enough to make it 'back home'. Can't do that if you always have the 'professional' do everything for you.
And thank God for this site and those who have gone before me willing to share their stuff......
Welcome aboard!
Kirk
Hey guys, great timing on this one. Last year I replaced every hose on my boat, drains, domestic water, cooling, fuel, vents, water heater, EXCEPT the exhaust. I've got the hump hose, but am hoping to get a deal at our Toronto Boat Show this week on the big one.
Thanks for reconfirming 17'.
The one in the boat right now, that I also suspect is original, is the Trident Flex Marine Exhaust and Water Hose 1 5/8". I've seen at West their Series 250 Shieldsflex II Marine Water/Exhaust Hose with wire. Is that the standard one everyone is putting in now? Or any other suggestions?
Steve
Well, as for getting to know the boat, I've replaced the fuel tank, all fuel hose, potable water hose, potable water valves, rewired the battery charger to the batteries, washed and scrubbed all the bilge areas from the rudder stock to the bilge pump (after we fixed the fuel tank leak), ran a NEMA 2000 backbone system from the binnacle to the nav table, replaced the thru hull for the anchor locker drain. So I'd say I know my boat very well inside. I'll let some one else muck with the exhaust hose.
Ralph
Ciao Bella
Water lines, replacement of, is on my short list.
Quote from: SD Diver on January 16, 2012, 10:18:17 AM
Well, as for getting to know the boat, I've replaced the fuel tank, all fuel hose, potable water hose, potable water valves, rewired the battery charger to the batteries, washed and scrubbed all the bilge areas from the rudder stock to the bilge pump (after we fixed the fuel tank leak), ran a NEMA 2000 backbone system from the binnacle to the nav table, replaced the thru hull for the anchor locker drain. So I'd say I know my boat very well inside. I'll let some one else muck with the exhaust hose.
Ralph
Ciao Bella
Ron, I checked the CD listing all the topics again, and found no article on replacing "exhaust hose", using that term to search the spreadsheet. Then, I went to the Tech notes here, and find Nov 2010 to not have anything. I'm new to navigating around here, so I'm sure I'm missing something.
Quote from: Ron Hill on January 15, 2012, 02:31:08 PM
Guys : If you read the Nov 2010 Mainsheet tech notes, you'll see my article (w/pictures) on changing out the exhaust hose.
As I recommend this is an easy 1hour job for 2 people, not too sure I'd tackle it by myself. The 1 hour didn't include the time it took to clean out the port side and aft lazerettes and port side aft cabin panel - so we could get at everything.
I'd still recommend that you look at Defender for the hose as Catalina Direct is too rich for me, especially on the east coast for shipping.
FYI, I ordered 17 feet and we cut off about 6 inches to make the final connection to the thru hull in the stern.
A few thoughts.
Ed : As I recall the CD Tech information was from 1986 thru March 2001.
If you look at a paper copy of the Mainsheet, you'll find that article in the November 2010 issue in the Tech Notes.
All members of the C34IA receive the Mainsheet magazine 4 times a year Feb / May / Aug / Nov. If you haven't joined you might want to contact Stu Jackson (see Home page).
A thought
Quote from: Ron Hill on January 17, 2012, 02:45:55 PM
Ed : As I recall the CD Tech information was from 1986 thru March 2001.
If you look at a paper copy of the Mainsheet, you'll find that article in the November 2011 issue in the Tech Notes.
All members of the C34IA receive the Mainsheet magazine 4 times a year Feb / May / Aug / Nov. If you haven't joined you might want to contact Stu Jackson (see Home page).
A thought
I've joined. You had said Nov 2010 tech notes above, and I thought that the Tech Notes index did just that: link back to past issues/articles.
Ed, thanks for joining. As you may have noticed, the August and November 2011 Mainsheet articles aren't posted yet. This is a volunteer organization. :D :D
If you'd like a copy, email me through this board and I'll scan you a copy.
Quote from: Stu Jackson on January 18, 2012, 07:08:54 AM
Ed, thanks for joining. As you may have noticed, the August and November 2011 Mainsheet articles aren't posted yet. This is a volunteer organization. :D :D
If you'd like a copy, email me through this board and I'll scan you a copy.
I appreciate that Stu. It's a moot point, the project is done. Thanks for all of the replies!
I replaced mine by myself last summer and I don't recommend it. It isn't a hard or complicated job, but I am 6'1" and 200 lbs. I was head first in the stern locker removing the hose from the thru hull. I slipped further down in than I intended and because of my propane tank set-up it took me 45 minutes to extricate myself. Nobody around to hear me yelling. Just a word to the wise.
Mark, you should have called me. I would be happy to help you again. When it comes to tight spaces, I can usually get most anyplace in the boat. Most of the time I will pull the propane locker to get into the Lazarette, but if time is tight, I squeeze past it on the port side. Call if you need a hand.
Phil
Thanks Phil. I would have waited for a time Melinda was along, but I thought I would take the afternoon and do the job. never entered my mind that I could get in a jam like that one. Won't happen again I can tell you that. Also, thanks for the offer to help.
Quote from: horsemel on January 21, 2012, 12:40:50 PM
I replaced mine by myself last summer and I don't recommend it. It isn't a hard or complicated job, but I am 6'1" and 200 lbs. I was head first in the stern locker removing the hose from the thru hull. I slipped further down in than I intended and because of my propane tank set-up it took me 45 minutes to extricate myself. Nobody around to hear me yelling. Just a word to the wise.
I suppose it is subject to one's ability. It is always good to have someone at least in shouting distance if doing semi-heavy work in case of trouble or injury. I'm a klutz, amd know this all too well. I remember replacing sanitation hose to a holding tank years ago-the knife slipped and got an artery in my leg. I made it onto the dock when neighbors called an ambulance. After getting patched up and getting back to my boat, the blood sprayed all over the cabin looked like an axe murder occurred there.
Other than having to crawl in and out of the port cockpit locker to pull/feed the hose through the bulkheads, the exhaust replacement wasn't outside the range of a one person project. A second person to feed the hose through the bulkheads wouldve made it easier, no doubt.
But, as I mentioned, the hardest part was getting the hose off the thru-hull at the transom. Nothing else to do but a one person tug of war or wrestling match there. Unless, you were to pull the propane locker and crawl down there.
Guys : I get such a "kick" out of reading the happenings on this message board !!
The sad fact is that there are detailed articles WRITTEN with PHOTOs on how to do most of the tasks on a C34. They are in the Mainsheet tech notes or on this web site.
Believe me that you can do most by yourself, but you can do most - 5 times faster with another pair of hands!!
This advice is from someone that has done most jobs and is going into my 26th year of working on my C34 !!
A thought
Well, I'm not sure what entertainment value is here. Like I said before, nothing jumped out of the tech notes search on the spread sheet using the term exhaust hose, that pertained to the actual replacement thereof. Another check of the Tech Wiki reveals nothing either. :?: So, I felt it appropriate to post my experience.
Sometimes, when
MY schedule allows me the time to do a project, a second set of hands may not be readily available. I can drop an engine and transmission out of my Porsche by myself-rebuild it to a fairly high powered spec, and reinstall. Running an exhaust hose on a C34 is a walk in the park.
This project was pretty straight forward, I don't know what pics or a writeup would show that couldn't be figured out on the spot. Basic task: Remove old hose, route new hose and cut to length. Connect both ends. :thumb:
Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of projects I'll need help on, and see what others have done. I just simply posted my experience here-it might help someone decide that they can or can't do it themselves.
Quote from: Ron Hill on January 29, 2012, 05:56:16 PM
Guys : I get such a "kick" out of reading the happenings on this message board !!
The sad fact is that there are detailed articles WRITTEN with PHOTOs on how to do most of the tasks on a C34. They are in the Mainsheet tech notes or on this web site.
Believe me that you can do most by yourself, but you can do most - 5 times faster with another pair of hands!!
This advice is from someone that has done most jobs and is going into my 26th year of working on my C34 !!
A thought
Ed, Ron's exhaust hose replacement article hasn't been posted to the Tech Notes Online (yet), so we could say "You're both right!" :D
Thanks Stu. It is also my opinion that forums work well with continuos contribution. That is to say, different people might do the same jobs a bit differently. Then when the next person comes along and searches, they get more than one viewpoint.
I'm into Porsche 911's pretty seriously, and have been on numerous automotive forums for years and seen this many times over.
Thanks for the advie on this subject to all who contributed. I am going to do the job my self since the boat yard estimated 600 bucks labor plus parts to do it durning haul out. That is a bit excessive I would have to say.
17 feet it is then.
Ralph
Yikes, $600 plus materials is outrageous, IMO.
Thanks Ed for the post.
It reminded me that when I replaced the electrical connection on my boat, I got stuck in the port lazarette. I climbed in, sliding on my back, a little more, a little more.... When it was time to slip back out - I just couldn't wiggle out. I tried to turn onto my belly, but that didn't work out. I could have called the harbor master's office (I had my cell phone) but I really didn't want to do that (pride goeth...) finally I just gutted it out and wiggled out sweaty and scraped up. So yeah, I got a bit of a laugh thinking about it - although it wasn't to funny at the time (actually it was pretty funny at the time, just a little painful too). So today I was talking to my brother who is going to trace a fresh water leak on his Catalina 36. I reminded him to have somebody onboard in case he got stuck like we did! Your post helped my brother to (hopefully) avoid being another lazarette victim.
So yes, some of these posts refer to items that have been around for years, and yes, it's a really good idea to explore the site to find out all the really good ideas that are here. It is also good to have the current thoughts and the fresh perspectives of people doing it for the first time(s), as well as the input from people who have been around for a while. Thanks to all of you.
Ralph & Scotty : When I did mine I paid my helper $50 for that 1 hour of work and it was all done.
I did pay for the new hose and the wire-ties!! A thought
I'm just starting on this wonderful effort! :abd:
Got the port side aft cabin panel off, still haven't wiggled it out of the aft cabin.
Just re-read Ron's excellent Nov. 2010 hard copy of Mainsheet. Nice job, and thanks for that.
I'll keep you posted how it goes, this is gonna take some time and I have to pace it with the recuperation of my son's right wrist. Don't ask...skateboarding, but at least he's a sailor too! :D
Given the half dozen or so screws and how tight that panel is in there, have any of you given any thought to fixing up a simple way to keep the panel up without reinserting all the screws, like maybe battens? Sometimes I just leave half the screws out! :shock:
It appears there is no need to remove the aft panel. My PO did a really dumb thing, I just discovered (after 13 years!): He "cleverly" placed a U-bolt through the cockpit floor just in front of the binnacle for use to clip a harness to. Unfortunately, the bolts come down in the front piece of the cover over the idler pins and sheaves!!! A few scant inches forward and it wouldn't be an issue to simply unscrew the idler wheel cover. Drats!!! :cry4`
I was able to do all of this without removing any of the cabin panels? All of it was done via access to the lazarette, the port cockpit locker amd under the lav vanity.
Guys : As Ed mentioned you can change that exhaust hose without removing the post side panel.
The task is just that much easier/faster if you do remove it.
With that panel off you can make sure that the new exhaust hose is not touching the back side of the toilet paper box - that's VERY important or the hose will chafe.
A though
[Corrected chaff to chafe. Too tired to replace throughout Ron's numerous posts! :D - Stu]
Status report:
Got both of the ends off today. Using Ed's advice, since I, too, couldn't get the hose off the thru hull at the back of the boat, I started sawing away at the hose to cut it and try his approach. I was down INSIDE the lazarette (three or five times, oh joy! :D), with not a whole lot of room to work in down in the hole! I refused to try going in head first, thanks to your warnings. After a few unsuccessful attempts at getting through the material, I tried pulling up on the hose and, voila, off she came! Magic! :clap I attribute that to the vibrations from the saw hitting the wire in the hose. Who knows??? That thru hull, thank goodness, is NOT barbed. Anyway, thanks for all the pointers, so far, so good. Pictures to follow.
Final score:
Stu 1 Hose 0
Glad to hear you didn't get hosed, Stu!
Guys : Just make sure that the exhaust hose is NOT touching the protrusion of the toilet paper cabnet !!!!!!
Mine isn't even close.
DONE! :clap
A little creepy feeding the hose through to the head side hole, man that sucker is so small. If they'd made that hole the same size as the aft hole, it woulda been a LOT easier. Since the hole isn't sealed, anything that spills in the port locker is goin' down anyway.
My son, bless him, spent most of the afternoon in the port locker, while I guided the hose through under the head and in the lazarette. The hardest part was redoing the wire ties under the head counter to hold the hose up before it turned down into the muffler. The new hose is much more supple than the old one, so makes bends much more easily.
The old hose didn't have any particular holes in it, just cracks all along its length. I'm sure it was leaking big time for many years, based on the black soot all over everything. Having Morgan on his back cleaned up the port locker pretty well! 8)
We have a bunch of lines in the lazarette, so I was able to avoid stepping on the cockpit scupper drains and the bilge pump hoses.
I'm glad I removed the aft cabin panel - I was able to guide the hose down and past the fuel tank, otherwise it would have been more difficult to figure out what was going on down there from up above, and you simply can't reach from the head door over to port to grab the hose from the head.
Thanks a lot for all the guidance.
Elapsed time, including removing and replacing all the stuff from the port locker: started at 12:30, finished at a bit past 3:30. Doesn't include time I spent earlier removing the hose clamps at either end and taking off the aft cabin panel, say maybe and hour.
Good help is hard to find, all ya have to do is put them through college! :thumb:
****************************************
[added Nov. 2020] --- One thing I may have mentioned elsewhere (or not?!?): Where I bought my hose, they didn't have a full piece of 17 feet, so the helpful counter-guy Mark - who knew me - at the Universal dealership in Oakland, California (relatively 2014? newly renamed Outboard Motor-shop from Seapower) actually spliced two pieces together to make 17 feet with a high temp butt connector! I added two hose clamps on either side, but it was a tight fitting, no air leaks. One piece was much longer than the other. We fed each end in from up above, through the port locker. The right side went into the hole down below just forward of the fuel tank, and the aft end went though the hole on the vertical bulkhead down to the thru hull below the transom. The butt connector couldn't feed through either of the holes, and it just so fortuitously turned out that the "bulkier" connector stopped right at the bulkhead inside the aft end of the port locker and made it all the way to the thru hull! I still maintain that it was great planning, not just luck! Raised hands
Morgan did get the new hose into new wire ties inside the port locker, but I never got around to completely securing it underneath the head countertop; can't even begin to reach it.
Good news? It should be a once-in-a-boatowner's life kinda effort. And God bless the next owner!
exhaust hose flix
Long arms are a plus doing this project.
His or mine? Yes, I was down below, must have been mine. :D
Pictures as promised:
...and... My old Bruce anchor and our sentinel (kellet). The leaks from the old hose are evident on the inside of the hull.
The old hose poking down thru the forward hole to the head:
This reminds me: isn't the fuel shutoff valve location ridiculous?
The picture of your son in the locker is priceless. That's a good man!
Great job Stu.
In regards to the fuel shut off vale, that is a terrible place for it, I have one on the inlet side of my racor filter so when I change the element I just shut it off there.
Ralph
Ciao Bella
re: the fuel shutoff
I had a small access hatch lying around (it's a long story...). So I decided to cut a hole in the fore-and-aft bulkhead in the aft cabin and install the hatch to give easy access to the valve. Any screw-in deckplate could serve the same purpose and would be a good safety feature.
Many have added an inline shut off line just before the electric fuel pump to stop flow when working on the fuel filters. Others just use vicegrips to close the line off.
I replumbed our electric fuel pump to after the primary Racor. I do have a new shutoff vavle, to be installed, in front of the Racor.
Stu,
How many feet of hose did you put in for the replacement?? The yard charged me for 20 feet, not sure where the extra two or three feet went.
Ralph
Ralph : A couple of us used 17 feet. Actually, I cut about 4 inches off (that was too much extra), to make a good fit.
I don't believe there is room to stuff or loop 20 ft of that hose!!
Ron,
That's what I was thinking. Having read the threads I was figuring about 17. I'll have to see where he stuck the extra, I'm thinking behind the sink, because in the lazaret there was no extra and in the aft going to the through hull it was run pretty straight along the overhead then down at the aft bulk head/transom. Hope there isn't a down ward loop behind the sink that would trap water.
Ralph
A tad short of 17 feet. Just like Ed and others have reported. Somehow I don't think the dimensions of our boats (Mark Is, 1 1/4s and 1 1/2s) have much changed over the years. I found, based on my OEM install, that there was a little "wiggle room." For instance, you'll notice that the hose in the port locker is higher than the mark left by the old hose, plus there's room in the lazarette to push the hose higher than OEM if you have six inches too much hose, rather than cutting it.
My approach is better too much, than too short, of course, but think of it this way: in the future if the ends of the hose corrode (since there's some bare metal), then you can shorten it and cut an inch or two off and reconnect to the thru hull or the muffler. It's usually the ends that go first.
Somehow, I'm sure Frank and Gerry didn't have the guys on the factory floor use as MUCH hose as they could... :shock:
This hose length worked just fine for me, and it comes, repeatedly, from the great guys who contribute. I depend on them and they always come through. It's been 17 feet since 1986. Really. :abd:
Quote from: SD Diver on February 27, 2012, 02:15:20 PM
Ron,
That's what I was thinking. Having read the threads I was figuring about 17. I'll have to see where he stuck the extra, I'm thinking behind the sink, because in the lazaret there was no extra and in the aft going to the through hull it was run pretty straight along the overhead then down at the aft bulk head/transom. Hope there isn't a down ward loop behind the sink that would trap water.
Ralph
I'm guessing he charged you for 20 feet and cut some off. There simply isn't room for a down loop behind the head, but heck, go look! If there is, I want a picture, 'cuz I don't think it's possible.
That's my thought too. I'd ask them for the extra 3'! :thumb:
Quote from: Stu Jackson on February 27, 2012, 05:31:45 PM
Quote from: SD Diver on February 27, 2012, 02:15:20 PM
Ron,
That's what I was thinking. Having read the threads I was figuring about 17. I'll have to see where he stuck the extra, I'm thinking behind the sink, because in the lazaret there was no extra and in the aft going to the through hull it was run pretty straight along the overhead then down at the aft bulk head/transom. Hope there isn't a down ward loop behind the sink that would trap water.
Ralph
I'm guessing he charged you for 20 feet and cut some off. There simply isn't room for a down loop behind the head, but heck, go look! If there is, I want a picture, 'cuz I don't think it's possible.
Ed's got a good point about asking the for the other 3 feet of hose.
Because if you haven't noticed, the factory used that same hose for the scupper drains and 3 ft would be about what you need to do one of the two scuppers in a MK 1 standard transom. A thought
Added to the Engine wiki