The word is out -- C-355. A smaller version of the 455!!
You mean 445, right? ;-)
Any details?
Yes, 445. Sorry. No details yet. However, many of the same features on the 445 will be on the 355. However, single wheel and a wee bit less roomy.
If it's got the interior layout of a 34 and the lines of the 445, I'll start saving! I should be able to afford it in 2021...
You Will all be surprise I know !!!!!!!
Paul
Info on the new 355 is starting to pop up on the web. Here's a listing from a dealer that just couldn't wait until the details were finalized:
http://uk.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatMergedDetails.jsp?boat_id=2001277&ybw=&units=Meters¤cy=GBP&access=Public&listing_id=12184&url= (http://uk.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatMergedDetails.jsp?boat_id=2001277&ybw=&units=Meters¤cy=GBP&access=Public&listing_id=12184&url=)
If the information in the listing is at all accurate, and if it has 2 meters of headroom, I am very interested. I just hope the inflated "sailaway" price is due to the UK listing (or to the cost of being first in line).
The AC must be driving up the price . . .
Well, guess the layout picture answers the question of which end of the boat will get the head . . . All in all, looks pretty much like the layout on our boats, after a light shot of steroids. I'm happy to see that one of the biggest changes was enlarging and (hopefully) improving the head . . . and of course head room throughout for us tall guys . . .
Can't wait to get on board one, and might I hope for a test sail?
Is the move to Yanmar engines (and a 29hp at that) something new for Catalina in these newer boats?
Actually, it's a larger version of the C34. Good on Gerry! 12 foot beam vs 11-9. Foot longer.
Electric head - depends on which on it is. Peggie has some definitive recommendations on those. If the holding tank is above the head, like it is on the C350, it becomes a "problem" with head discharge and joker valves. Doesn't look like there's room for it though anywhere on the plan, so it may well be in the same place as ours. Water consumption???
V berth: hmm, making the world's largest V berth into a newer style V berth doesn't mean it's any bigger. Access, however seems pretty good. I do, however, like our ability to lean against the lockers and drawers with our feet forward to read. Not sure whether you're supposed to sleep head or feet forward there.
Split portside saloon seat: where'dya put the cushion if you want it down? Some C36 guys feel it's a waste. I can always put my drink down on the main table, it isn't that far away. I'd go for the continuous seat.
Saloon table: rates a 110% in my book. In fact, I'd go buy one tomorrow if they were available. But the quad leaf shows as closed in the plan, so where do you get the extra space? Would be a bear with our keel stepped mast, though.
Seems less storage space in the saloon cabinets, but the Mark IIs always had less space than our Mark I black sliding doors.
Access to the stuffing box will be a big deal with a full mattress. We've had discussions about this before. See C375 reviews we did, search C375. Pictures were included.
So far, pretty nice. My due date is 2016!!! Aquavite will be a mere 30 years old. Enough to get into the Classic Plastic Regatta.
Quote from: gtrbone on August 09, 2010, 06:44:53 PM
Is the move to Yanmar engines (and a 29hp at that) something new for Catalina in these newer boats?
You gotta be listening - all the boats for the past at least five years have been Yanmar. Advertisements for Yanmar with Gerry Douglas pictured and quoted in
Mainsheet magazine weren't enough? :D Evidently people didn't understand glow plugs...
Stu....I don't believe it is any longer than a 34 MK11. Catalina has gone to measuring tip to tip, over all length and using that for the model number, similar to other boat manufacturers. My 34 MK11 is 35' 8" overall length with includes pulpit/anchor roller. Also water line length is only a few inches longer.
It does look like a direct replacement for our 34's.
Look forward to getting all the actual specifications and seeing one at a boat show.
I like the optional hard dodger. We've been talking about one this year.
Going to contact Massey for a price on the MK II.
Quote from: Tom Clay on August 09, 2010, 10:30:09 PM
Stu....I don't believe it is any longer than a 34 MK11. Catalina has gone to measuring tip to tip, over all length and using that for the model number, similar to other boat manufacturers. My 34 MK11 is 35' 8" overall length with includes pulpit/anchor roller. Also water line length is only a few inches longer.
It does look like a direct replacement for our 34's.
Look forward to getting all the actual specifications and seeing one at a boat show.
Tom, LWL 29-10 ours, 30-2 new, LOA 34-6 vs. 35-5. Negligible differences. Whatever numbers they use to designate the new boats is relatively meaningless, only for differentiation. At least it's not a CXX-zero Winnebago-class. One doesn't count pulpits and pushpits in measuring except for marinas to charge us more. :D I doubt the new ones measure that way either, LOA is LOA for spec purposes.
I agree it's a newer deeper C34 for tall guys! :D This is far from the thoughts of the C36 guys when they claimed the C375 was a C36 replacement. At least this one's got the aft head.
The actual specs are right on the link provided. I agree, looking forward to seeing one, but I'm pretty sure we already know what the interior trim will be.
And they'll probably have that darned clam cleat, too, unless they do full double end mainsheets, but even then...
I sooooo hope they keep the great things that work on the 34 going on the 355. Like the traveler. The traveler control they put on the 375 is a little funky in my opinion. Does the smaller Yanmar put out as much power as our Universals? And I noticed that the specs call for two cleats on each side--no midship cleats.
Stu, after awhile I've gotten used to the jam cleat they use for the mainsheet.
I just found a deck plan. To see, go to the Massey web page, Catalina specials, then the 355. There are midship cleats, and a toerail. Hatches look about the same as ours. Other than being a tad longer it looks like this boat could be called a 34 MkIII.
I'm liking the taller lifelines and the water-tight bulkhead too. I'm going to have to find a way to pay off my C34 faster than 2021. I don't know if I can wait that long! I really like what I see of this new boat.
I would opt for the 35 hp Universal. The Yanmar would be anemic for this boat.
I agree it's not a lot, but C34s never came with more than 30hp. Mine has 23hp and is adequate. 29hp should push the 355 to hull speed if needed and cruise at 6.5kts while sipping fuel. I like the choice.
Guys,
It's always heartening to see the design that we love validated in a newer boat. But the difference in price between this boat and a used Mark I or II. Gulp! 200k plus for this boat fully equipped vs. 45-75K for 80s or 90s vintage C34s. After the 'new toy" elation wears off, I would be saying "I just spent what for this boat?!". Then again I have never bought a boat out of the box and I guess there may be some advantage--warranties etc. Still the difference in price provides an awfully big war chest for repairs and maintenace on our older boats. There are even funds left over after we install that electric toilet.
Ken
From sailplace.com: The Catalina 355 conforms to the recommendations and standards of the ABYC and IMCI Category A requirements. The base price of a Catalina 355 is $165,450 FOB, Largo, Florida. The boat will debut at the United States Sailboat Show in Annapolis, MD on October 7-11, 2010.
Interesting to note that it's only a 29hp engine.
Hope Gerry Douglas read my Mainsheet article (smile :D) and doesn't stick with the same prop pitch of a 1986 C34 (with a 21hp engine) !!
I also note that the anchor package includes a SMALL 22lb Delta!!
Two steps fwd and one step back!! A few thoughts
I don't get the naming sequence. A C355 would make you think it would be a small step above the already existing C350, or a replacement for the C350. In my mind, C340 would have made sense. Whatever happened to the days when boat names were based on their length? :donno:
Quote from: Roc on August 10, 2010, 05:50:10 PMIn my mind, C340 would have made sense.
Never! Any Catalina ending in a 0 is a Winnebago. Except for the 470. And the C310.
I agree Stu, no more Winnebaggo's.
What's the significance of ending in a '0'? C320 and C350 have been popular boats.
Quote from: Roc on August 11, 2010, 04:16:57 AM
What's the significance of ending in a '0'? C320 and C350 have been popular boats.
See http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4232.msg24284.html#msg24284
Popular or not, the high freeboard distinguishes some of the designs quite clearly from others.
Catalinas have always swayed more towards being a 'sailing boat' than an 'entertaining boat', unlike other production brands. However, maybe the pendulum is swinging more toward boat designs that appeal to dockside entertainment and less to sailing performance. If that's the case, I think it's too bad.
Roc, I think the 355 design shows the exact opposite. Catalina looks to be targeting the serious (family) sailor who wants a good value. By dropping the 350 they are moving away from the condo concept.
I guess I need to study the 355 more closely. I thought it was a hull design more like the 320 and 350, high freeboard, bulky transom, etc. I look forward to seeing at the boat show in Annapolis.
The Yanmar could be good if it has a lower idle speed. This could make for easier low speed (1 knot or less) approach under power for docking. The one flaw I find with the Universal 35hp is that it has so much power and shaft rotation at idle that I need to shift in and out of gear to approach at low speed. Net result is a loss of precision in steering (loss of flow over the rudder) . If I leave it in gear, minimum speed is at least 2 - 2.5 knots.
I once chartered a Jeanneau with Yanmar and saildrive: much better low speed control, and quiet power at cruising speed. Maybe saildrive should be on the wish list?
Tony
Tony, wadr, saildriver s*ucks. Why? Take a look at how it works. It replaces a simple stuffing box, regardless of whether you like PYI or use a traditional box, and you end up with a big freaking hole in the bottom of your boat. I suggest you study it a little bit more. It is one of the worst engine/transmission to prop designs I have ever seen.
As far as idle speed and boat speed, I have the same issue with our M25, at least when i have a clean bottom! That comes with the territory, folks.
I'm going to take a chance and offer my opinion, based on the information so far. I'm biased, I'll admit up front, because I love my year 2000 Catalina 34 MKII, but as the original owner I still must admit I'm just now listing her for sale with a broker. Absolutely nothing wrong with the boat--I truly love her. She's given me a glorious 10-plus years. But other than a terrific trip down the ditch from north of Annapolis to Florida (all the way to Sarasota) and back, single-handing, in 2003-2004, I'm not using the boat the way I'd hoped, and she's more boat than I need for knocking around the Chesapeake Bay.
So--I'm sorry to say the C355 looks like a step in the direction of Hunter Marine. It has some significant improvements over the 34 (I'd be very interested in the convertible port-side seats, for example). The forward cabin looks a bit more luxurious, and inner-spring mattresses are a step up. But the lines aren't as pretty, IMHO, as the 34's. And it's hard to tell for sure, but it looks like they've gotten rid of the outboard Genoa track, and it looks like a fractional rig?
So that's my two cents worth at this point. I'll take a look at the Annapolis Sailboat Show.
Tony,
I don't have an issue with my M35B idle. Maybe your idle is set too high? Mine is around 800-900 rpm. When I'm maneuvering in close quarters, I usually have to toggle the throttle up to get the boat moving. Or else, it's a very slow crawl.
George,
Your perception is exactly what prompted me to write my earlier post. With my C34, any shortcoming from a livability point of view, is clearly apparent in the reason that it is like that because the sailing aspect of the boat was the primary design intent. Some sacrifice in comfort is to make very good sailing performance. Although I've not personally sailed any of the newer models, I've spoken to a very reliable source that the new designs don't sail as well as competitive boats.
Stu
I respect your opinion, as always. But from a slow speed maneuvering point of view the saildrives seem to work very well. And we would not get so many questions here about removing the shaft :thumb:s
My issue could be that I have a three bladed prop. Maybe two blades don't develop as much thrust at idle. I do idle at around 900, but that seems to be the low end of comfort for the engine: it runs much more smoothly at 1000 under power.
Re the forward cabin on the 355: I think that you may lose more than you gain by shortening and rounding the wide end of the v-berth. Isn't the large v-berth one of the things we all like most?
Tony
Maneuvering at low speed is one of the things I like most about having seperate gear shift and throttle levers. Coming into the marina I set the power at 1000 and slide between F and N as needed to maintain speed and direction control. When the boat is about half way into the slip, slide into R, the boat slows and the prop walk eases the boat to the left against the finger pier. Granted there are some days when more aggressive throttle use is needed, a single lever would be nice on those days.
We've gone from talking about the 355 to saildrive. Is that on topic? :roll:
Sorry, it came from talking about the switch to Yanmar, and things that we might have liked to see/not see in the 355..
Let's do anything, good folowups.
For those who FIRST see the new whatever it is, do a report like this one:
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4232.0.html
And search on c375 to learn more. Comparisons are very welcome.
Like everyone else, I will be very interested to see this boat in person.
The fractional rig is a bit disturbing - how will I be able to chase down the poky Hunters from a distance if Catalina starts making fractional rig boats in our size? And I don't like this move to the deceptive model numbering. Just because Hunter and Beneteau do it doesn't make it right. Mounting a javelin pole on my bow won't turn it into a Catalina 42. Catalina has always advertised that their model numbers reflect the true LOA so now they seem to be backsliding.
I don't think the convertible settee seats on the port side are a new thing for Catalina - the 350 and 375 both have them.
It looks like the 355 may have the huge cockpit locker that is the "wow" design feature of the 350. And speaking of the 350, the title of the post announcing the 355 on their forum was "Death of the 350." Guess they're not taking it well.
I am interested to see how they are going to get 107 gallons of water tank storage into a boat with a not much bigger footprint than our C34s.
With the fractional rig, my guess is that the sail area is not going to be much greater than the C34s (like mine) with 150 percent genoas. Although they say that the height from the waterline to the masthead is 54 feet so that is a four foot difference so it may well be a bit more.
The fractional rig doesn't look like a true fractional as seen in Hunters. More like a 15/16 found on Beneteaus. What's interesting is all the Catalina literature touts how their masthead design is superior. Now they are changing to how Beneteau rigs are.
54 feet, is it extra mast or higher freeboard? Guessing some of each. I'm guessing they went with the 15/16 because it was a mast all ready in production, saving some costs. They are expecting the use of a spinnacker on the bowsprit, so it may simplify the mast head rigging eliminating the upward facing water scoup our masts have.
Will try to get some answers from Gerry when I see him at the Rendezvous this weekend.
A benefit of a smaller headsail is that it is easier to trim--less load on the sheets when the wind really picks up. I think it would also follow that a cruising chute would have a greater impact in light air--way more sail area. I'm wondering if this type of rig still behaves like a masthead rig--as is the jib still the power sail?
No one has mentioned the attractiveness of two 10lb propane tanks (if I am reading the small print correctly) and the 27 gallon holding tank. Every little bit helps!
The 6' 4" crowd might feel better in the main cabin (headroom) but worse in the forward cabin (shorter bunk). And not having a bulkhead to put pillows against would be a problem...even if it appears you can buy an "electric lifter" which raises the mattress for reading. Is this a boat or an intermediate care facility?
Guys : I once asked Joe Joyce (Service Manager) Westerbeke the low idle question. His reply was simply "Just above the rpm that doesn't shake your teeth out" !
However, my experience says that about 950 to 1000 rpm (actual NOT Tach gage reading) is the lowest that you really want to go. The lower the idle (under 1000rpm) the more the injectors tend to carbon up. Of course the longer you stay idling at that low rpm also enters in to that equation.
You surely don't want to be going in reverse at 850rpm and when the stern almost gets to the dock - shift and have the engine hesitate! A few thoughts
Is the mast stepped on deck then? Looks like from the interior pics as the table has no indent for mast to keel.
Isn't a bow thruster overkill?
Susan, I think that you have put your finger on why they went to a fractional rig. The mast has been moved forward so that the compression post is against the forward bulkhead, moving it away from the table area.
The bow thruster is optional, but I would certainly like to have one! That would really help my docking. I think that those with a wing keel docking in a strong cross wind or cross current would appreciate it the most. I suspect that a full keel is less affected by a cross wind at low speed. Tradeoff as always is some extra drag, dpending on how well it is designed into the bow.
Tony
Guys, Susan & D. Gill : I just saw a review in the new Chesapeke Bay Magazine on the C35 MKII ?? (didn't know there was one!!) It has incoperated the "suggestions of over 400 C35 owners" !
So I'm not too sure exactly what the new C355 is replacing beside the C34/C36 ?? :think
Ron,
The 350 MkII came out 5 years ago if memory serves. In my opinion, the 375 was the replacement for the 350 (13ft beam and forward head) while the 355 is more of a replacement for the 34 (12ft beam and aft head).
The 375 was a replacement for the 36. As many have mentioned, it has some flaws. The 355 'floor plan' is pretty much just like our boats. I'm really happy that Catalina kept the beam down, and I'm hoping that hints that the new model holds to some performance standards. As someone mentioned, the forward berth looks pretty small. Like on the 375. What they did on the 375 was to offer 'inserts' that fit into the space on either side that made the new style bed into a 'v' berth. Going backwards from our long beds is pretty much a mistake, in my opinion. Can't wait to see one and get some answers to the questions!
Guys : I have just returned for the East Coast Rendezvous. Gerry Douglas gave a pitch on the C355. He kept mentioning "Off Shore" in the structure, construction, fwd water tight bulkhead etc.
So I asked the question " You have mentioned Off Shore a number of times. Does this mean the C355 is an off shore boat rather than coastal cruiser?" Gerry neatly side stepped a direct answer of yes or no. So I'll let it to your imagination.
He was also asked if the C355 meant that the C350 would be going out of production? His answer was that the C350 would still be built as long as there's a demand! :wink:
One of the nice things about Catalina is the company listens to the owners. When Gerry asked me how I like the 445 at the Annapolis boat show my reply was beautiful boat, great interior and cockpit, but too much boat for me. I personally don't like dual helms, but they seem to work on this boat. The one thing that needs to be changed is the throttle needs to be moved. It had to be operated with the left hand reaching through the wheel. On the display 445 this weekend, the throttle had been moved to the side, easy to use for a right hander and away from the wheel. Not sure if it was my input, or input from many, but the boat is improved/modified in less than a year.
To keep this on topic. Gerry does not consider the 355 a fractional rig. He calls it a 17/18 rig. The sole reason was to simplify the mast head, reducing weight aloft.
Don't know if any of you read the recent review of the C375 in Practical Sailor. The very last paragraph didn't seem they were fond of the sailing performance in wind higher than 10 kts. Also, in comparing the specs of the C375/H38/B37, I kind of liked the way the C36 looked on the numbers chart.
Just found out I will be in Annapolis next Monday and will be able to attend the last day of the boat show. Looking forward to seeing whatever Catalina models that will be there.
Any suggestions from prior Annapolis Boat Show attendees will be appreciated.
Don't know if you have to be a friend of Ron's to see. However, here is the sea trial. http://www.facebook.com/gillgear?ref=ts#!/video/video.php?v=1451507888568 (http://www.facebook.com/gillgear?ref=ts#!/video/video.php?v=1451507888568)
Does anyone know what the round winch like device on the mast (facing aft) is?
I think it is part of the in mast furling system, but looking at the manual from Charleston Spars on the wiki it makes no mention of it. SWAG (scientific wild ass guess) is that is used if the furling line breaks or needs to be replaced.
Hopefully one of the MKII owners can provide the correct answer.
I have a 2005 with Charleston Spar and it is not part of it. Saw it on a few differnt brand boats and assumed the same thing.
I've had that thing from time to time on a charter. I think it is a Selden mast, and that is a clutch device that locks the furling line in place. I really don't understand its use, but I think it is pretty silly. If one is going to have in-mast furling with lines led to the cockpit, why on earth would it make sense to go forward to the mast to operate a clutch? I know on some of them I had to 'shift gears' on that thing to engage it to furl or to unfurl. Its been a few years, I really didn't understand the subtleties of its operation then, but I sure hope it has been simplified now . . .
Joe,
The winch on the front of the Seldon mast is part of the furling system. I have used both the Seldon and Charleston furling systems. I prefer the Charleston that we currently have on our MK 11. I have friends that have had trouble getting their Seldon's to furl. That is the reason you have a place on the winch to insert a winch handle.
On the Seldon mast the furling line feeds through the winch/drum. You pull on the furling line the winch turns and through some gears rotates the sail into the mast, until it binds up. Then you go up front to the mast and turn the winch with a winch handle.
Our Charleston has worked flawlessly for the the last 4 years. To reduce sail the wife slowly brings the boat into the wind, as the sail just starts to luff I pull in some sail, this takes us less than 5 seconds. It's now a competition to see how fast we can adjust our main sail.
Thanks Tom. I have the Charleston too and I have never had any problems with it and certainly have never had to go forward to the mast to do anything. It seems like a good system and I was wondering if what I saw at the show was an improvement. Apparently it is not.