Catalina 34

General Activities => Main Message Board => Topic started by: Stewartn on November 21, 2009, 07:58:21 AM

Title: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Stewartn on November 21, 2009, 07:58:21 AM
Anyone use a Mason Supreme 35# or a Rocna 33# on a stock C34 MkII (#1472) fcty installed anchor roller? I know, I know - but I already covered the boat and there is no easy way to measure or try before buying. Any info confirming or rejecting the fit appreciated.

Thanks all,
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Craig Illman on November 21, 2009, 08:06:31 AM
Stewart - I don't know what was installed standard on your hull. Here's a picture of my Manson Supreme 35# on Espresso #1150 with the longer roller available from Catalina direct. I know the newer MKII's have this longer roller.

Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Stu Jackson on November 21, 2009, 09:53:15 AM
Here's Steve Dolling's Rocna 20 (44#).  The trick?  Support it as shown and let it out enough to avoid dinging the hull.  My Rocna 10 picture follows.  I ahve since added a Johnson rail cleat for the roll bar holder line.

Both of us have the toy bow rollers which we DELIBERATELY kept to avoid the larger moment arm of the newer rollers.


It would be very interesting to learn why you are considering a Rocna 33. Given Steve's experience, this appears to be way overkill in anchor size selection for a C34.  

Anchor sizing tables are here: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4990.0.html

Steve discussed his anchor selection and use in his 1500 mile update, here: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5270.0.html
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Mike and Joanne Stimmler on November 22, 2009, 01:53:34 PM
Here's a few more pictures for comparison. When I changed from the Bruce to the Rocna, everything fit but the bail that went over the top of the Bruce. I eliminated the bail and everything works OK and the new Rocna stays in place as is.

Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: waterdog on November 22, 2009, 09:50:07 PM
Stu,

I'm not sure what was going on with my Rocna at Southbeach.   It's hanging way out.   I think I was scrubbing Sausalito mud off it.   It does fit snug up against the bow roller - it doesn't normally hang out in space like this. 

If anyone needs more than a Rocna 20 (kg that is) for a C34, I would really love to know what conditions they anchor in.   I've tested it in conditions where the dog poop is blowing past the cabin windows and it holds great.   

Sleep well.   

Steve

Currently in Puerto Vallarta at the deluxe marina learning how the rich folks live.  Life is brutally hard and I'm trying to prove that so folks back home can appreciate how good they've got it...
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Stu Jackson on November 23, 2009, 09:03:44 AM
I'm not sure what was going on with my Rocna at Southbeach.   It's hanging way out.   I think I was scrubbing Sausalito mud off it.   It does fit snug up against the bow roller - it doesn't normally hang out in space like this.  

If anyone needs more than a Rocna 20 (kg that is) for a C34, I would really love to know what conditions they anchor in.   I've tested it in conditions where the dog poop is blowing past the cabin windows and it holds great.  

Sleep well.  

Steve, I think you had it hanging out there to show me your windlass, so right after I took this picture you snugged it up.  I agree, normally it fits tight up against the toy bow roller.  

It appears that many folks are afraid of scratching their bow fiberglass but that really doesn't seem to happen.  I have one small ding in 22 years...

Yes, I agree, it would be nice to hear from Stewart to find out why he's going that big, which is unnecessary overkill.  What chain size do you have?
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Stewartn on November 24, 2009, 09:16:08 AM
In answer to why a 33# on a C34: Both Manson and Rocna suggested that size with 35' of chain. It was also recommended locally by some very intrepid cruising sailors that I trust. I am still dithering, but Manson has come back and said the 25# is OK with 50'+ of chain.  I'll let you know how I go later in the year. Thx all.
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: waterdog on November 24, 2009, 04:52:18 PM
Sorry Stewart, I think we got confused on lbs and kgs.   33 pounds is certainly not overkill for a Rocna on a C34.  Probably just right for most conditions.  Mine is a Rocna 20 which is ~ 44 lbs.    That with a 100 feet of 5/16 chain has allowed me to sleep very well. 
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Stu Jackson on November 24, 2009, 07:11:34 PM
Stewart, I agree with Steve, sorry 'bout that! :cry4`
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Ron Hill on November 26, 2009, 12:30:34 PM
Guys : Be careful because some of the pictures only have a bow roller that was part of the head stay fitting in the 1986, 87 and 1988 C34 production boats.  So in those years, unless you installed a bow roller, any anchor is going to be closer to the hull than those that do not have a (real extended) bow roller.
 
Look in Projects and you'll see the bow roller I installed on my 1988.  I also added some stick-on tread to protect the bow.  I found out that my Bruce actually extends out about 3 inches further than the factory in stalled bow roller which started in 1989 C34 production.  My Bruce has never come close to touching my stick-on tread!!
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: billandalita on December 04, 2009, 06:54:21 PM
In case this helps, here is a picture of a Manson Supreme 35 lb anchor on CLEO, my 2002 C34.   I originally fastened a large bail to the rear of the anchor roller to secure the anchor shank.  This did not work since one must bring this anchor on-board, with the windless, without stopping the last several feet, which often caused the anchor shank to hit the bail with enough force to bend it backward.   The second photo is a closeup showing the current latching hardware to secure the anchor shank once the anchor is aboard.  The latch consists of two stainless cheek plates bolted to the rear of the bow roller and with a 3/8 inch pin that can be slid open or closed and locked in place with a clevis pin.   This arrangement is very sturdy.  One can also lock this anchor in place by sliding the 3/8 inch pin through the slot in the anchor shank.
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Joe Kern on October 14, 2010, 01:14:38 PM
Has anyone else with a MKII gone to a Manson 35?  If so how have you managed to make the anchor fit/stay on the bow roller?  I assume you removed the forward bail but wondered if the system in the picture below is necessary.  Great boat show prices on the Manson and am thinking of pulling the trigger.
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Stewartn on October 15, 2010, 02:13:05 AM
Installed a Rocna 15 (33#)on my MK II, 1472, Spring 2010. Went on stock roller and fit very well. No changes to roller necessary. Will try for pics next time I go to boat.
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Stu Jackson on October 15, 2010, 06:59:14 PM
Joe, I recommend that you BUY it and figure out how to mount it later.  You'll sleep a LOT better at night, since it'll pull you off the bow when it sets.

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,2705.0.html

Anchor System Sizing Tables are here:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4990.0.html
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Joe Kern on October 16, 2010, 06:27:18 AM
Agreed Stu.  I think I have read every thread on our forum and others and am defintilety convinced it will make those nights in the islands more conducive to sleep.  For $321 it is worth it.   Just don't want to have to worry about it bouncing all over the place because it does not sit well in the bow roller.  I think I will give it a try though.
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Stu Jackson on October 16, 2010, 08:32:44 AM
Joe, with your longer bow roller it should rest OK, but with my old toy bow rollers I have to tie a line from the "roll bar" on the anchor to the pulpit to keep the anchor on board.  I use a short line, plus a shock cord with a hook on the end thru the small hole in the forward end of the shank.  I take the line off before anchoring, but leave the shock cord on until ready to drop.  It's a precarious balance, so I'd caution you to make sure it's secure before you head out after installing the anchor.  My buddy tied a lousy knot one day and the anchor went overboard about two miles out to sea.  Good thing the rode hockled over the center cleat before the whole rig went into the deeps.  My buddy had "tons of fun" pulling it all back up!:)  While I was grinning, big time, ear-to-ear.
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Ron Hill on October 17, 2010, 02:38:06 PM
Joe : I've never seen a later (1989-1993) MK I and a MK II side by side, but I believe they have very similiar if not identical anchor wells -  concerning the bow roller
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Joe Kern on October 17, 2010, 05:51:25 PM
Thanks guys.  I was out on the boat today and by the looks of it I think it will fit.  I ordered it tonight.  $321 from Defender. Boat show special.
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Hawk on October 18, 2010, 10:13:38 PM
I installed my new Rocna 15 (33#) this summer....well, installed is not accurate as it simply fit in/on the bow roller under the bail - no problem. My 1990 has the longer roller similar to your newer boats I believe.
You'll be happy.
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Joe Kern on November 22, 2010, 09:17:34 AM
Finally put the Manson on the boat.   Fits ok although the bail on the roller does not allow the whole shaft to sit flush and it barely clears the roller furler.   Thinking of removing the bail but I like the idea of it keeping the anchor from bouncing around.  Looking forward to using it for the first time and for more relaxing evenings at anchor in the Bahamas than my previous anchor (now a spare that also fits in the anchor locker).

Joe
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Ken Juul on November 22, 2010, 09:29:03 AM
I'm sure a local machine shop or Garhauer could make you a larger bail for a reasonable price.
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Craig Illman on November 22, 2010, 09:52:18 AM
Joe - You can definitely get a longer bail from Garhauer for a very reasonable price.

Craig
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Joe Kern on November 22, 2010, 10:10:06 AM
Thanks Guys.  I had the same thought and did a search on the Garhauer site when I was on the boat.  Was using my iphone so not the easiest to see their online catalog but I did not see they had any different size bails for the anchor rollers.   I will give them a call.
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Ken Juul on November 22, 2010, 12:03:22 PM
If it something they make, they will happily modify it to meet your needs.  I didn't see a listing for them seperately either, but they are on the anchor rollers they sell so they have them.
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Craig Illman on November 22, 2010, 12:50:43 PM
Second item down, BB-2, on this hyperlink http://garhauermarine.com/catalog_process.cfm?cid=73 should do the trick. I'm pretty darn sure that's what I bought.

Craig

Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Joe Kern on November 22, 2010, 01:17:48 PM
Thanks Craig!!!!!  I saw those and thought they looked like the same thing but thought that could not be.  The I decided for less than $20 why not try but decided I would do it and then report if it worked as someone on the forum would say I was crazy for thinking a boom bail would work for an anchor roller.

I will give it a try.
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: scotty on November 22, 2010, 08:55:12 PM
So, I've got a couple of questions.  I want to upgrade my anchor system on my 1987 MK I. I can't afford the windless for about a year, but I want to start with the anchor. I sail out of Santa Cruz, CA and need an anchor suitable for sand,kelp and surf -in overnight and (gulp!! - I hope not!) emergency situations.  I've been looking at a 35# CQR, but I see here that a lot of you guys are using the Rocna (either 15 or 20 KG).  My questions:  Anyone have any strong opinions that either of these anchors are better or worse than the other for my uses?  Also, could a 61 year old guy (in reasonable health) break these anchors out of the sand using a bit of forward motoring, and then lifting it out without a windless?  I've got 15 feet of chain.  What do you think?
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Stu Jackson on November 22, 2010, 10:08:07 PM
Scotty, you need to size an anchor system, not just select "an anchor" 'cuz others use it, and throw a few feet of chain on it.

15 feet of chain is less than about half of what you should be using, minimum.

Try this: Anchor System Sizing Tables:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4990.0.html (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4990.0.html)

It discusses the OPTIONS in sizing a system.  I lift our 22# Rocna with its 35 feet of 1/4" chain based on the SYSTEM sizing I described in the link to sizing, and I'm a few years older than you are.  I wouldn't think a 35# would be that easy.  3/8" chain is overkill, I believe unless supported by the system sizing criteria.  However, that big makes it more a storm system than an everyday anchoring system for "normal" use.

You need to figure out where you're going to anchor and need to anchor, or choose to purchase your "worst case scenario" system now, as discussed in that topic.  We don't know what your cruising grounds or plans are.

Steve's 1500 Mile Report (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5270.0.html (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5270.0.html)) includes this:  

The Rocna.  All 20kg of it with 100ft of chain.  The rest of the world can debate all they like.   When I pull into a place like Bodega Bay at midnight and the fog is so thick I can't see the jetty 50 feet away to make an entrance, I drop my hook in the rolling ocean swells with the surf crashing (Foster says it's like staying in a cheap Best Western beside the highway), and I sleep.  And in the morning I have a windlass to pull the beast up and I wouldn't trade it for anything.   (I also wouldn't add more chain - this works perfectly in 25 to 30 feet of water - you let all the chain out and you tie off nylon at the preferred scope and don't bother with snubbers and chain hooks and all that stuff...)

This was our best upgrade.


CQR?  I wouldn't trust my boat to one, but some do.  Try this topic: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,2705.0.html (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,2705.0.html)

It's long but has important info.
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Ron Hill on November 24, 2010, 06:06:09 PM
Scotty : I believe that CQRs are much overrated.  I won't get into a preferred anchor discussion, but a fixed plow type like an Mason, Bruce or Rocna might be a better choice. 

I've got 15+ years on you and pulled a 33 Bruce and 30' of chain until I had problems - NOT pulling the anchor related (just body parts wearing out).  I'd ideally get the length of the boat chain and to help somewhat with the weight, get 1/4" high tensile chain.  A thought
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Stu Jackson on November 24, 2010, 07:52:26 PM
I can't afford the windless for about a year, but I want to start with the anchor.

Scotty,

Ron's idea for losing weight with 1/4" HT is a good one.  You also need to keep in mind that since your are to buy a windlass next year, then you need to select the right chain for it now.  Only the smaller windlasses use 1/4", most are 5/16".  Like these:  http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=45348&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=10105&subdeptNum=10428&classNum=10429 (http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=45348&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=10105&subdeptNum=10428&classNum=10429)

And here's another good anchor thread:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5458.0.html (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5458.0.html)

and this one, too:  Roll Bar Anchors:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4457.0.html (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4457.0.html)
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: scotty on November 25, 2010, 01:06:58 PM
Thanks guys.  Lots of good information.  You're right about the system approach, and also planning for the future installation of the windless.  One of the things that I like about this forum is getting so many ideas.  I'm planning out what the system will look like so that all the components fit when it's done, then buying things as the budget allows.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Ron Hill on November 25, 2010, 01:58:34 PM
Scotty : When you get time to install an anchor roller, you might want to look at my Mainsheet article (May 1995) and when you install a windlass you might want to do the same(if you want it INSIDE the anchor well).
At least these will give you some ideas and what you are getting ready to encounter.  A few thoughts
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Stu Jackson on November 25, 2010, 05:49:00 PM
...which can be found right here:  http://www.c34.org/projects/projects-anchor-windlass-apache.html
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: scotty on November 25, 2010, 08:19:57 PM
Thanks Guys for the suggestions.  Yes, I've spent a lot of time looking at the Projects page, the Wicki and Mainsheets.  I've pretty much sussed out my approach (stainless steel 90* angle inside the well).  I like to take my time planning projects.  Actually I really enjoy looking at all the projects.  I find lots of things that I just hadn't thought about.  I also have to winnow out the things that I can't get to - only so much time.  I encourage any other new owners (like myself) to spend a lot of time on this website, it has really helped me.
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: scotty on December 01, 2010, 07:38:41 PM
Thanks for all the input everyone.  I just bought a Ronca 15 today.  I'm stoked.  I'm going to hang it on my "toy" roller for a while and see how it works.  My next step is to buy chain.  In order to do that I need to look down the road (or is that rode?) for the windlass that I shall buy in a few months.  I've looked at a lot of the ideas previously posted, and the projects pages.  At this point, I'm particularly interested in the Lewmar V700.  Ron, how has that product worked out for you?? Anyone else using one?
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Jim Hardesty on December 02, 2010, 05:02:48 AM
Scotty,
I perfer the windless with the gypsy and drum.  I disconnect the rode and use the drum for going up the mast, disconnecting and reconnecting the forstay, and other heavy lifting.  Just my 2 cents.
Jim
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Joe Kern on December 02, 2010, 07:37:58 AM
Scotty - it may have been said before but make sure you buy the right size chain if you are getting chain before you get a windlass.  I know mine maxes out at the 1/4" 6mm size.

Joe
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Michael Shaner on December 02, 2010, 12:09:16 PM
 Scotty, if you go with the V1 as opposed to the V700, you have the ability to change the gypsy to accommodate 5/16 chain. The downside of the V1 is a bit more weight and bigger cable required...
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Ron Hill on December 03, 2010, 01:35:07 PM
Scotty : My V700 has worked flawlessly for the past 3 years.  You don't need 00# wire !
 
I'm quite satisfied that 1/4"High Tensile chain (breaking strength 7750lbs) is not the weak link in the ground tackle system.  A thought
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Stu Jackson on December 03, 2010, 05:43:37 PM
Ron's right.

Don't wanna beat a dead horse, but just to repeat, try the anchor system sizing tables on Reply #6, here:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4990.0.html (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4990.0.html)

Choose the system, then the chain, to suit your intended windlass.  Simple.
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Joe Kern on January 24, 2011, 09:57:35 AM
Just as a follow-up.   I replaced the "bail" on my anchor roller with a larger one from Garhauer.  Only $12 and now the Manson anchor sits flush on the roller without hitting the furler.

Joe
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: DarthOccam on January 25, 2011, 07:46:58 AM
Just as a follow-up.   I replaced the "bail" on my anchor roller with a larger one from Garhauer.  Only $12 and now the Manson anchor sits flush on the roller without hitting the furler.

Joe

Joe:  do you have a size or part number?  I'm planning to do the same.

Thanks,
Michael
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Joe Kern on January 25, 2011, 08:46:33 AM
Yes, thanks to Craig.  Second item down, BB-2, on this hyperlink http://garhauermarine.com/catalog_process.cfm?cid=73 is what I bought and was perfect.   I was wrong.  Only $9.50!


Joe
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Mike and Joanne Stimmler on January 25, 2011, 11:09:41 AM
Great idea! I'm going to order a bail from Garhauer as well. When I put my Rocna 20 on the bow, everything fit but the bail so I just took it off. It works OK without the bail but it would be reassuring to have one on there.
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Joe Kern on January 25, 2011, 12:30:25 PM
See post #19 below.  I did not take follow-up pictures when I replaced it but it sits nicely in the bowroller channel, easily self-deploys etc.  Pretty cheap fix and easy to do.
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Terry Forshier on January 26, 2011, 11:44:04 AM
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_HoE9lwf-oaQ/TUB33bC-FTI/AAAAAAAAAHQ/j0Q_PeDQXjs/s640/IMG_0414.JPG)
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Terry Forshier on January 26, 2011, 11:47:24 AM
the previous post was my first attempt at adding a photo. You can see how I have my set up. Pulpit with 2 anchor slots and set up my windless with the 2 sided door. Just thought some muight like to see another idea.http://lh4.ggpht.com/_HoE9lwf-oaQ/TUB33bC-FTI/AAAAAAAAAHQ/j0Q_PeDQXjs/s640/IMG_0414.JPG (http://)
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Terry Forshier on January 26, 2011, 11:50:05 AM
trying again for closer view

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_HoE9lwf-oaQ/TUB6Mvh13tI/AAAAAAAAAHY/ZeQ3FxxTSMg/s640/IMG_0413.JPG)
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Ralph Masters on January 27, 2011, 10:30:52 AM
Looks like it'd put you into a 36 foot slip. :D
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: wind dancer on January 27, 2011, 12:40:14 PM
Looks like it'd put you into a 36 foot slip. :D
Around here, that's a 38ft slip.  No overage allowed. :-(
Title: Re: Anchor Fit on C 34
Post by: Ralph Masters on January 27, 2011, 03:12:52 PM
And don't you just love that marina math.  Talk about fuzzy................ :shock: